Juilliard vs Eastman vs U of Mich

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hi everyone--</p>

<p>I'm new here so I don't know what ppl usually do to ask for opinion.</p>

<p>but, my decision deadline is approching,,,it'd be really helpful if y'all can help me out here..</p>

<p>So I was accepted to Juilliard, Eastman, U of Mich, Oberlin, NEC, CIM, Mannes and Manhattan.</p>

<p>and I have put Jyard, Eastman and U of Mich as my top three. Which one should I choose???</p>

<p>btw I'm a pianist, and a high school senior entering college.</p>

<p>Thanks!let me know if you need anything else</p>

2

<p>Congrats, and from your list of acceptances, many would envy your position.</p>

<p>For many, it boils down to two things: private instructor, and money. Another major factor is location and environment for many.</p>

<p>Have you had instructional lessons with any faculty at the various programs? Do you yet have a studio assignment? (Given the list of schools, you may, you may not). Who would you feel most comfortable working with, and does that option meet your other priority parameters? </p>

<p>There’s a list of some of the common decision factors here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/891462-questions-after-acceptance.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/891462-questions-after-acceptance.html&lt;/a&gt; that may prove useful.</p>

<p>If you scan the first three or four pages, there are a number of active and semi-active threads with specific school to school comparisons, and you will get a feel for what is important.</p>

<p>Often the best way is to do a list of pros and cons, and the balance or tilt to certain aspects dictate your choice.</p>

<p>And sometimes, all things being equal, you go with your gut.</p>

<p>I do not have the instrument experience to offer program or instructor input. There may be those here who can.</p>

<p>I’ll add your acceptances to our list here: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/817953-master-list-acceptances-fall-2010-a-61.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/817953-master-list-acceptances-fall-2010-a-61.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>every school on your list has great piano faculty, including the ones you aren’t considering. You can safely decide based on the teacher and finances. Michigan is the outlier in terms of being on the same campus as a university (Eastman is further away from U Rochester) - it may be easier to take academic courses if you are interested, though Juilliard students on piano can take one course a semester at Columbia after the first year, if they have good grades - I don’t think many do it, but it is out there as a possibility. Juilliard’s location beats Eastman’s - including weather-wise, though it snows in all these places.</p>

4

<p>Thank you! To answer your question, yes, I do have teacher assignments for almost all of the schools; but the problem is I only know about a few of them, and it’s solely based on reputation.I havn’t had any lessons with any of them so it’s very hard for me to tell which teacher suits me the best. I don’t know how much you know about piano teachers, but Following are my potential teachers:</p>

<p>Juilliard-Matti Raekallio
Eastman-Nelita True
U of Mich-Arthur Greene
Oberlin- Robert Shannon
NEC- Alexander Korsantia
CIM- Antonia Pompa Baldi
MSM- Andre-Michel Schub
Mannes-unknown</p>

<p>Anyways, I have tried to make a pros and cons and it did not help. one of the reasons is each of the school has its own pros and cons and no one particular school stood out.</p>

<p>for example,
juilliard is great for its reputation, but since there are MANY talented students, you will get very little attention from your teacher. also,very important, the scholarship isn’t nearly as good as the other schools.
Then there’s Eastman, great school, great teacher; but bad location. I’ve heard million things about Rochester and how it’s not a place for ppl to live.
And U of Mich, decent school&teacher, great scholarship; but I’m worried that my musical education at U of M would not be as good as what I’ll get from the aforementioned schools. Also, U of M’s reputation isn’t as good as the other two as well. </p>

<p>I wish there could be a place where everything is perfect, but apprently whereever I end up going I’ll have to make compromises and give something up; the question is how to make this compromise a minimum one:(</p>

5

<p>Rochester is really not all that bad a place to live. My son did not like it originally but it grew on him over time and may go back there for his DMA at some point. Eastman is fabulous for piano. The dorm for Eastman is right across the street from the school so you don’t have to go far to get there.</p>

6

<p>A couple of things that I personally would not place too much weight on:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>City: They are all in the north and get their share of less than pleasant weather. You are a piano major and will spend countless hours at the keyboard. Your school will become your world. You will have very little time during the week to get out into the city, and if you do get time on a weekend, you can always take a trip to a more exciting city. If you choose not to go to Juilliard (where you mention you got a smaller award), the money you save by not going there could be put towards some trips to NYC.</p></li>
<li><p>Reputation of school: I think this matters less for an undergrad degree, assuming that you are going to do some graduate work (and with your list of admissions, you should have no trouble getting into some good grad programs if you progress). What matters is that you have a good teacher, work hard, and move ahead musically. When you audition for a grad program (as with an undergrad program), the panel doesn’t care (or often even know) where you have studied or with whom you have studied. They care that you can produce music.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Is there any way that you can fit in a lesson with the instructors at two or three of your top three? If you can, email or call now. </p>

<p>Ultimately, I wouldn’t sweat the decision too much. You have great opportunities and you obviously have the talent and drive to take advantage of the opportunities that all of those schools will afford you.</p>

7

<p>We found Eastman to be a very nurturing place for all the musicians, warm and welcoming. We saw so many happy students there. As Shennie said, the dorm is right across the street. Also , the YMCA is right between the dorm and ESM, so if you want to have a quick swim, work out or jog indoors, you can schedule that in easily. Some people joke that the bad weather is a plus for Eastman–all the more reason to practice more, you’re not missing anything outside… A degree from Eastman definitely tells the world that you are a fine, well-educated musician. </p>

<p>How was the scholarship for Eastman? Or for the others, for that matter? Even if the $ isn’t a big factor for you, the size of the award can be an indication of where you are in the talent pool that year, and how much they really want you. Perhaps that is a consideration for you.</p>

<p>It sounds like you may be leaning away from Juilliard, but if not, do you like NYC? Our D liked it for a visit, but couldn’t see herself living there for undergrad–too crowded, noisy, hectic for her. If you could see yourself thriving in NYC, it’s tough to turn down that opportunity.</p>

<p>U Mich is a large University, with sports teams, students with different majors, and lots of campus activity. Is that what you’d like, or do you prefer being surrounded by other musicians immersed in performance and practice? U Mich has an excellent reputation, though Eastman or Juilliard arguably has a greater international name. </p>

<p>Too bad you can’t visit and go by “gut feeling.” Perhaps you can be in touch with current students at each school, and you can get a feel for each that way.</p>

<p>Good luck to you in your decision. You are in an enviable position, you should be very proud of your accomplishments. You will thrive wherever you land, and, there’s always graduate school.</p>

<p>BTW, look at the bottom of this page and you’ll see “similar threads.” All of these have to do with Eastman, so if you haven’t read them, you should. Also do a search for U Mich and Juilliard. Of course, most of what you’ll be reading are opinions, so take it all with “a grain of salt,” including my opinion. Your opinion is the one that counts!</p>

8

<p>It may not be true that you would not get much attention from your teacher at Juilliard - I would think you would have at least one hour lesson a week and a studio class; and if you do ensembles, then coachings from faculty. The students I know of there on piano liked their professors and did not complain about lack of access.
Here is a write-up about the Juilliard professor - quite positive: <a href=“http://www.juilliard.edu/update/journal/j_articles1027.html[/url]”>http://www.juilliard.edu/update/journal/j_articles1027.html&lt;/a&gt;
the key part:
"But it was apparent that he was most comfortable as a one-on-one teacher. He was not the type to spin out trendy generalizations to please the public; the specifics of artistry were much more important to him. Such an intense teaching style resulted in happy students, many of whom signed up for repeat lessons—such as freshman Oliver Jia, who reported that “he has a very respectful and positive disposition. His communication skills are very amiable …” And Yiding Niu, a pianist in her second year, added, “I don’t feel any tension in front of him. He knows how to calm students down by his natural manner and personality.”</p>

9

<p>thank you all for your wonderful input, this website is awesome!!</p>

<p>I have actually made a scholarship appeal to both Eastman and Juilliard, and I will make a final decision once I learn what my scholarships finally looks like.</p>

<p>meanwhile, if anyone has more suggestions or ideas about the schools or the teachers, please keep posting them. It’s two weeks away from May 1st and I would love to have as many information as possible.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

10

<p>oh and to answer sopranomom92’s question, I got about fifty percent scholarship, at Eastman, but that means I still have to pay about 36-40k per year. still pretty scary when you think about it 0.0</p>

11

<p>FWIW,

This is not an either/or proposition – UMich’s school of music, with apx. 1000 undergrads and grads, is indeed an immersion-style experience like other schools of music – if you want it to be. Very close knit and collegial feeling, according to my son, who attends. The school puts on 450 performances a year when you include the music theatre, etc., in venues such as the acoustically perfect Hill Auditorium. Because there are 40,000 grad and undergrad students on campus, those performances tend to be well-attended.
So while the “big university” style experience is available to you, please know that the School of Music is also very intimate and supportive, you don’t have to choose one or another – you can have both at U.Mich.</p>

<p>In terms of international reputation academically, Michigan <em>overall</em> is well known, regarded, and highly ranked.
Which is not to say that Michigan would necessarily be a better choice in your discipline (I honestly don’t know) but between cost and the overall environment it is very tough to beat the “college town” and “musical” combined experience of Michigan.</p>

<p>Where are you from and have you visited these campuses? (Eg. done the spring welcome at UMich and whatever the Eastman equivalent is?)</p>

12

<p>Hi Asianjim, which factor would strongly turn the tide for you ? Is it scholarships, studio teacher placement , academic workload, brand name or even the school environment as a whole ?</p>

<p>Just curious, did oberin, nec, cim, manhattan do not offer anything compare to your top 3 choices ?</p>

13

<p>You were admitted at all the top schools that you applied to, and are in a situation similar to students choosing between all the Ivies. Not easy, and also a situation that does not garner much sympathy, so, first off, sending you sympathy!</p>

<p>Julliard would be hard to turn down, for many. And NYC. Also, it is nice that musicians room and eat with dancers and theater students, and there are collaborative projects between the disciplines.</p>

<p>Wondering why Oberlin is off the list, or, for that matter, NEC or Manhattan. I mean, your reasons for taking them off would be enlightening in terms of helping you with any advice.</p>

<p>Maybe you should tell us a little more about yourself. Where are you from? Do you have academic interests as well? Do you prefer to be surrounded by other musicians, bymusicians and other artists, or by students interested in all kinds of things? Do you prefer a city, or do you care about location at all?</p>

<p>Oberlin is a bit different in that the college and conservatory are part of the same campus, conservatory students take classes with the college students, and there is crossover, so that, for instance, a conservatory pianist might play in a student musical. Oberlin, Manhattan and NEC have a “new music” scene that is strong. Others may too. What music do you most love to play?</p>

<p>What are your goals? Do you want to be a soloist? </p>

<p>Julliard’s acceptance rate is extremely low. I have read and heard that it is a competitive environment, but some people thrive on that. Do you prefer a competitive environment, or a cooperative one? </p>

<p>Without visiting, or meeting with teachers, I don’t know how you could decide between such fine options. I am assuming you have looked at websites, course listings, teacher bios, performance opportunities, etc. Any way you can make a trip? Or even a phone call to talk with teachers? Or, at least, tell us a little more. There is no perfect choice, objectively speaking. We cannot just tell you the best school. But there is probably a school that best fits you as an individual.</p>

<p>Good news is, you would do wonderfully at any of them!</p>

14

<p>My reasons for the top three:</p>

<p>Juilliard- it is really difficult to get in and I did, so it would be irrational of me to not put it on my top choices. of course, the school itself is just great.</p>

<p>Eastman- I really like the teacher there, AND it’s a top school.</p>

<p>U of Mich- personal feelings. I LOVED it when I visited. and also I’ll have the chance to double major in the college of LSA if I go there.</p>

<p>So----it’s not that I don’t like Oberlin, NEC, etc (in fact, I got more scholarships from these schools…) it’s just that the three I mentioned has grabbed my attention so I really can’t see myself going to any of the other schools. </p>

<p>It is impractical to get in touch of a teacher and have a lesson with them now; 1st of all they are all busy people, 2nd, it’s 10 days till decision time…</p>

<p>My career goal would be of course being a concert pianist. But it’s really tough given that there are so many good pianists out there. </p>

<p>Thing is all three of the schools has things that attract me.
I LOVE competitive enviorment. in fact, I’m stronger when I have ppl to compete with. So that’s something Juilliard would def. be able to give me.
I also like activities. I also have a passion in sports. So I’m not that type of person who can sit down at a piano and practice all day. I play. I hang out with friends…so I’m thinking Michigan would be an ideal place for interesting activities.
As for Eastman…I don’t know, It’s probably weaker in terms of enviorment compare to the other two, But I’ve also heard it’s very friendly there. That’s something I look for as well. I like competition, but not a cut-throat one.</p>

<p>So the situation right now is, I wait and see what the result of my scholarships appeal are like for both Juilliard and Eastman, and make my final decision.</p>

<p>Also, people have told me that going to Juilliard will significantly increase my chance of getting students and gigs, is that true? anyone has any thoughts on that?</p>

15

<p>Go to Julliard! We turned down Julliard for Colburn–but it was for a teacher. Both nyc and julliard are amazing and I know tons of kids who go there that are nice people. Surround yourself with the largest number of talented musicians if you want to get better. U Mich is great for cello. Also have a second look at NEC.</p>

16

<p>Not sure about gigs, but certainly you can attract many students with a Juilliard degree. Many parents of musicians are not music savvy themselves, but the one music school they’ve heard of is Juilliard. So, you’ll get called first. Maybe it works the same for gigs, for example, one of your musician friends may say: sorry, I can’t do that gig, but I suggest my friend Jim. Is he any good? Well, he’s a Juilliard grad…</p>

<p>What about that double degree? Is it important to you? Do pianists really have time for two degrees?? If so, UMich would be your best bet, with the academics right on the same campus, unlike Eastman.</p>

<p>Have you ever spent any time in NYC? I’ve been to many cities, and lived in some great ones, and IMO New York is the best, most livable, most exciting, safest city in the world. If it were my kid with your decision I’d be campaigning for Juilliard non-stop! You will be so busy as a pianist at Juilliard, but when you get a few moments to take a break, I can’t imagine a better place to be than NYC! Even if you have very little money to spend, you can have a fabulous time in NY. To say nothing of the opportunities to see and work with amazing artists. When I lived there (for about 4 years) just taking a walk around the block was a fun night out. But, if you need quiet and solitude most of the time, NYC is not for you. Although, it’s pretty easy to find peacefulness in Riverside Park, or parts of Central Park, or definitely by the Cloisters.</p>

<p>Many New Yorkers would NEVER leave to live someplace else. My H and I have no doubts that when we win the lottery, the very first thing we will do is buy an apartment in Manhattan. :slight_smile: Whatever you want to buy, whatever you want to eat, whatever arts you’d like to see, it’s all there in an instant. Sports teams, great transportation–you can even take the train to the beach (did it many times)!</p>

<p>Can you at least go “hang out” in New York for a day and see how you feel?</p>

<p>I’m stuffing the ballot box for Juilliard!</p>

<p>Good luck to you, you will love wherever you end up. And, you’ll question, at least a little, whichever decision you make. No worries.</p>

17

<p>pepperpowers,</p>

<p>are you a current student at Colburn, or did you get into both there and Juilliard this year as a high school senior? If the latter, we’d like to include all your schools and majors in the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/817953-master-list-acceptances-fall-2010-a-62.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/817953-master-list-acceptances-fall-2010-a-62.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

18

<p>Just for future readers: it is rarely too late to try to arrange a trial lesson. While the best teachers are very busy people, I found that the request lead time had little to do with the success in arranging a lesson. Some teachers just wouldn’t arrange even with months of lead time (emails and calls ignored: no sour grapes here, they are busy and have to prioritize). With others we arranged lessons on a couple of days’ notice. In fact, we often found that when we tried to arrange two to four weeks in advance, the teacher often wrote back something like, “Get back to me closer to the time” or “Call me when you arrive in the city and we’ll arrange a time during the two days you are here.” </p>

<p>If you have been accepted at the school already, then you are in a much better position to get the trial lessons than my son was as a mere applicant. The school wants you. When you are a mere applicant and the school doesn’t know you, it is you that wants the school and that reverses the power balance. </p>

<p>Asianjim, I realize that there may be circumstances in your life that prevent you from getting those trial lessons in the next couple of weeks so I respect that, so this post is more for future readers of this thread: April is a time when many accepted students book trial lessons with two or three of their top choice teachers. The teachers will often make arrangements on short notice. Obviously, if you live far away, the more difficult (and expensive) part will be making your own arrangements. </p>

<p>The studio teacher is a very important factor in a decision; many would say the teacher is the most important factor. So, if at all possible, try to spend some time in the teacher’s studio prior to committing four years of your life and enough money to buy a house.</p>

<p>Have you had contact with several students of each of the teachers? If not, see if there is a way to get electronic contact with at least a couple of the students of each. Often schools will facilitate this.</p>

19

<p>I have a question…how many times can you appeal for scholarship??</p>

<p>I got a slight increase from one of the schools, but it’s still far from satisfictory. </p>

<p>Can I appeal again for the second time?if so, how should I do it?</p>

20

<p>If you appeal once and the offer is still not even close to what you need, it is probably time to look to your other choices. One exception might be if you got both talent and academic awards at a music department or school within a larger institution. In that case, if you appealed only to the music department for an increase in a talent scholarship, or only to the financial aid office for an increase in an academic scholarship, then you may be able to go back and try an appeal with the other one. This generally would not work at a stand-alone conservatory because everything would be handled by the same people there.</p>