<p>Thanks swim4school. That is helpful. So if a “B” school invites him for an OV - how long can he politely put them off? And what does he say? I may be over thinking this but I am a recruiter (executive search) so I understand the business of recruiting and I guess this is probably not too different. The difference is the coaches are very experienced and each kid will only go through it once! He does have a list of questions because he actually has already had yow conversations with two different coaches - one on his A list and one on his B list. The coaches arranged for him to call them via skype. </p>
<p>I also plan to stay out of all conversations until financials come into play. I think that is reasonable. Especially with boys that don’t get as much scholarship money. </p>
<p>Your S is a highly sought after recruit. He can easily tell the B list schools one of two things:</p>
<p>1) He is not making any commitments to OVs until after Juniors. (He does not need to tell his A list schools the same thing, if that is okay with you philosophically.)
2) He is simply not ready to make commitments to OVs until mid-August. He is still in the “decision making process.” </p>
<p>Some coaches will apply some pressure to him to commit to an OV. Only immediately commit to those that he knows that he wants to visit, then wait to see how things unfold. Things change a lot between July 1 and August 10th. Obviously if his “dream schools” offer visits early in the process, there’s nothing wrong with committing to those. With 5 official visits, you may wish to hold a couple of them to see how things are progressing. </p>
<p>One other thing, three to four visits are usually plenty. Some kids take all five, but its a tough Fall to manage five complete weekends of visits (often Thursday night to Sunday morning), the swim training, and their academics.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Thanks swim4school. Those are great suggestions. We have also been given the advice not take all 5 visits. It really does interrupt their early short course training and school. My son has an amazing amount of energy so it would be interesting to see if it wears him out but I am thinking 3 or 4 is enough. I appreciate your input. </p>
<p>Checking back in - my son has received several emails asking for his phone number - which I guess is a good sign! How is late June going for @1Happydad and @Researchmum swimmers?</p>
<p>Hi @ahsmuoh (and @1HappyDad). Things are going well, I guess. A few have said ‘look forward to talking after 1 July’ etc., one, ‘are you available at x time on …’, and another ’ please let me have what times I can talk to you after 1 July’, and a few, zilch. No one has asked for phone numbers as far as I know, but I think S had to put these down on some recruiting forms because I remember him asking me which numbers to use, although I might be wrong.</p>
<p>Good luck to you guys. I hope it goes well for all of them.</p>
<p>Hi @ahsmuoh (and @Researchmum), it’s really nice of you to ask. It sounds like your sons are both generating a lot of interest – As I was sure they would.</p>
<p>Our son is probably a high D3 or low D1 level swimmer. We visited several schools last summer and this spring, and he met with the coaches at each. Since those visits, he periodically sent updates with best times, or test results, or grades to the coaches/schools that he was attracted to. As a result of the ensuing e-mail exchanges, he has accepted invitations for official visits to two schools that have been on his short list for some time.</p>
<p>As for the rest, our son is trying to understand what his options may be. He’s interested in a couple of Ivy League schools, one in particular. He has been asked by a couple of them to submit a pre-read package which he will be doing shortly (grades just came out), but he hasn’t been asked to do so by what I think may be his favorite Ivy (Not Harvard or Princeton) My sense is that each of these schools have faster fish on their radar, and whether or not our son is ultimately offered a visit/slot will somewhat depend on what swimmers ahead of him decide. </p>
<p>Other than that, this whole thread has gotten me curious about what might happen after July 1. I have no idea what he should expect. Should be an adventure (I remember this college thing as a whole lot less stressful when I was a kid). I hope you will keep sharing as we all work through this together. I’m rooting for great fits for all the boys!</p>
<p>@1happydad. Wow that is great that he has two official visits already. He might be a stronger recruit than you are giving him credit for! My son was just happy to get the email from his top choice asking him for his phone number. We are having a teammate and her dad over Sunday for lunch to discuss the whole recruiting process. This girl is in the class of 14 and was pretty heavily recruited and will go to a pretty big D1 next year. Her dad is very good about sharing information so we are looking forward to hearing all their insight, stories and advice. She will also be real helpful telling my son what to expect when coaches start calling and what to expect on OV’s. I will share the wisdom that is passed on to me Sunday evening. We also have a friend that just finished his freshman year swimming at Yale. He liked it a lot. Also know another boy that will there next year. Also have a teammate (girl) that is going to Princeton. I wish my son had an interest but he doesn’t. I know that the girl that is going to Princeton was given an offer pending the academic ok which didn’t come until Spring. She was told to have a backup! Her grades are outstanding and so are her test scores. Her times in 2 events would have put her top 3 in the Ivy League. So nothing is easy with that process! </p>
<p>@1HappyDad, I agree with @ahsmuoh re your S, and don’t see what’s happening to him as being any different to what is happening to mine. They all sound the same, although I know that @ahsmuoh S has quite a number of strings to his bow, and so must be very valuable to a number if schools out there (mine is more of a narrow specialist). Very well done to your S for getting OVs already. Those schools must really want him. I really hope it works out great for your guys. </p>
<p>Thanks @ahsmuoh for keeping all of us in the loop. Maybe once this is all over, we should pool our experiences for just male swimmers coming after ours. As you have said before, boys’ experiences are somewhat different to girls’. </p>
<p>Although my S is still extremely keen on this whole business, I am not so sure anymore. America is very far away… I really hope I have the grace to step back and not try to selfishly influence his decisions.</p>
<p>I hope you both have a great w/e.</p>
<p>I’m really enjoying this conversation although my son is still choosing between swim and rowing for college. He’s not at the same level as your boys in swim, though. ahsmuoh, I was wondering about your teammate who waited until spring for the academic ok–did she not get a pre read during the summer? What a scary situation!</p>
<p>Good luck to all of you–sounds so exciting!</p>
<p>@LivesinHobbiton I am not sure exactly how it went with the Princeton swimmer. She definitely had the offer in the fall but didn’t announce until the spring. Her mom said they told her to have a backup (her backup was full ride to Northwestern - not bad ;). </p>
<p>@researchmum @LivesinHobbiton @1HappyDad - We had our meeting with the experienced family. The dad and daughter spoke to us and told us stories for about 2 1/2 hours! It was extremely helpful - honestly I knew most of what they told us but my son really respects this father and it was so great for him to hear it from the other dad!<br>
They really helped us with what to expect throughout the process (of course we do not know if boys and girls recruiting will be the same or not). They had about 5 coaches come to their house in the month of July last year and he seemed to think our son will have the same experience - we will see. They gave us great pointers for those visits (@researchmum - you will probably not have to worry about that since you are across the pond!). </p>
<p>So here is some advice that I thought was great:</p>
<ol>
<li> Tell all the coaches (or at least the ones that you are not sure if you want to take an OV to) that you have a date that you will set all of your OV’s - make that around late July. The goal is to have all OV’s scheduled by the end of July.</li>
<li> The coaches REALLY want to know your interest level. This family feels very strongly (and the dad knows at least 10 D1 coaches personally) that a coach will keep recruiting a swimmer that they are sure wants to swim for their school. My son has a clear cut favorite (with a close second) and they encouraged him to make that clear to the coaches. I had suggested that to my son earlier but now I think he believes it.</li>
<li> If you haven’t already (we have) ask the club coach to reach out to the college coaches that are on your swimmer’s list. The college coaches want to know about the swimmers work ethic and just overall if they are a good kid. They said that a coach will take a kid a bit slower if they know they are a good kid.</li>
<li> Before accepting an official visit - make sure that the coach has verified that you will be accepted to their school. Do not waste a visit to only find out that you will not be admitted. My son only has one school on his list that he needs to do that with - the others he is in the 75% for grades/test scores</li>
<li> Good questions to ask either on the phone or in the “in home visits”
Who will be coaching me? Who will be at my lane - what coach?
How many academic advisors are dedicated to the swim team?
How much school will be missed with traveling - do the academic advisors travel - can they proctor tests on the
road?
How many scholarships do you have to give this year?
Describe coaching style - What would your swimmers say about you?
Tell me what your most proud of at your time at X University?
What is the best question a recruit has ever asked you?
Can you give me an idea of the scholarship amount that you are thinking for me? (they said to make sure this is asked with the understanding that it is not about the money but more about the interest the coach has in the swimmer).
Do you have additional “summer money” in your budget - they said paying for summer school does not have to be part of the scholarship.<br>
What is NOT included in the scholarship? The dad said they will probably answer the question with “What is IN the scholarship” - extras like shoes, warm ups, allowances on the road etc. He said that we will be amazed at the extras in some of the big programs.</li>
<li> Coaches can only call once a week (we knew that) and they usually will try to schedule a time to talk. The calls usually last about 20 minutes - at the beginning questions are asked but then it is just more about getting to know each other and is pretty casual (according to the recruited swimmer).<br></li>
<li> The college coaches really pay attention to how the swimmer interacts with their parents. They want a swimmer that is respectful and courteous to their parents.</li>
</ol>
<p>Well - that is all I can remember (don’t have my notes on me) but if you think of any questions from this post - let me know. Only 10 more days until July 1st!</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh, thank you very much for your helpful sharing post. I am so glad that your S got to hear it first hand from a family that’s ‘been there’. It is sad that our advice to them is often ranked the least credible/valuable! True, I am not expecting anyone to come knocking on our door, but I hope you all get some nice visitors.</p>
<p>I was watching Blindside again this weekend, and thought that the coach visits to their home were not true to real life, and that if they were, perhaps only true to the helmet sports. I didn’t realise swimmers got visits too.</p>
<p>It is interesting about the extras, and Summer school. Also, I remember reading somewhere about how the kids should enquire about a 5th year scholarship in the scholarship schools (maybe for if you redshirt, or have to take a reduced course load - sorry I am really not clear why this would be necessary as I am still not that familiar with the American education system, but I do remember someone specifically giving that advice on this board).</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>(And hi @LivesinHobbiton)</p>
<p>@Researchmum yes they did mention the 5th year. I think sometimes athlete take a very light load (12 credit hours)) in the semester they will travel a lot. Usually the 5th year money is an “endowment” from alumni for athletes. They did mention to also ask what sport swimming is “linked to”. I guess in big schools each “Olympic sport” is linked to a non Olympic sport (revenue generating 
and if they are linked to the better one at that school - that is a good thing. Oh…I love the movie Blind Side. We are big SEC football fans so it resonates!</p>
<p>Great comments all. Don’t forget to have fun with all the attention after July 1 too! Your S or D has worked hard to get to this place in swimming and should be proud of the interest they are receiving from college coaches - yep, COLLEGE coaches - not something that all club swimmers get to enjoy. My D was a mid-level D1 recruit (mostly “Mid-Major” schools) and she got quite a bit of phone calls from schools. Her head got so big there for a while, I thought she couldn’t get out the door! LOL… Enjoy it all!</p>
<p>@swimdogmom. That’s funny. My friend said the same thing about squeezing his daughters head through the door. Her little sister had to set her straight! I certainly hope my son will enjoy the ride. He is waiting on ACT scores today so lots coming down!!!</p>
<p>Wow @ahsmuoh, what a generous note. Thank you for sharing! Lots of good advice. </p>
<p>Based on the schools that our son is looking at, I’m not sure that we’ve put that much thought into the possibility of a swimming scholarship. But, I did get the opportunity to speak with a few of the freshman swimmers at Stanford earlier this year, and I was asking them about their experience so far (I think it was in November). They compared Stanford to Disneyland, and were kidding around about “Nike Christmas,” and all the swag. They were cracking me up with their enthusiasm about the whole thing. So I suspect your insight about what happens at big programs, how much more is included, is right on. </p>
<h1>1 is really good advice. Something I will pass along to our son, as is #3. #2 really resonates with our experience so far. From some of the unofficial visits where I’ve been in the coach’s office listening in (I’ve gotten pretty accomplished at letting our son take the lead in those conversations – And gotta give him props for how he handles himself – It has been great fun watching him grow – I really haven’t been involved with his e-mails and phone conversations since), it seems that at least some of the coaches have an allotment of how many pre-reads they can submit, and want to know that the swimmer is seriously considering the school. Seems fair enough (but I don’t think I’m a fan of all the ED parameters).</h1>
<p>Did you happen to talk much about what happens on recruiting trips? I’d be interested in hearing advice about what the recruit might be asking the current swimmers. Seems like this may be a good way to get some insight into coach and team dynamics. Would also be interested if your friends were ever pressured into making a decision along the lines of “I can offer you a slot, but you’ve got to decide now, because I have another recruit coming in next week?” And if so, how did they handle it (along the lines of #1, setting a final decision date?). </p>
<p>Anyway, great post. Thanks!</p>
<p>@swimdogmom - “Don’t forget to have fun with all the attention after July 1 too! Your S or D has worked hard to get to this place in swimming and should be proud of the interest they are receiving from college coaches - yep, COLLEGE coaches - not something that all club swimmers get to enjoy.”</p>
<p>Great point!</p>
<p>@1HappyDad yes we did talk about official visits. The recruited swimmer just talked about how they typically went. She said they would go to a class on Friday and typically an all team gathering on Friday night - one team rented summo wrestler suits and did those wrestling type funny competitions. Things like that. Saturday was usually a football game and then they would go out Saturday night. I asked about drinking. She said that her hosts were not allowed to drink but they definitely went to parties with alcohol. She chose not to drink. But she did say some recruits did. She was not pressured with “take the offer now or it’s off the table” but she knew of one swimmer that did have that experience. The school that she ended up signing with did ask her to cancel her last OV - they are league competitors but she told them that she felt like she had made a commitment and she would not cancel on them so she would not cancel. She then gave them a date that she would decide. They were cool with that. Her dad compared this with a 16 year old buying their first used car with a sales guy that has been doing it for 20 years! They will try to make you make a decision. She said that the conversations were easy with the current swimmers and they all told her to ask anything she wanted - and she did - she is not shy!</p>
<p>@LivesinHobbiton: “I’m really enjoying this conversation although my son is still choosing between swim and rowing for college”</p>
<p>But…but…but…haven’t you explaned to your son that there is only one real sport, and the rest are just ‘entertainments’ until swim season rolls around? (I’d insert a smiley face here, if only I could get that function to work). Hope you will keep us posted on what your son decides.</p>
<p>Hi @researchmum! Very exciting summer for you! And thanks so much @ahsmuoh, what a great writeup. Such useful information!</p>
<p>Lol @1HappyDad! Thanks for the levity, it’s much appreciated during this giddy and stressful time! Yes, my s has been a devoted swimmer since age 5…crew was the “fun” sport he did to try to avoid swim burnout, and he never knew he would be any good at it. It’s very strange that he is getting recruitment email from both sports, but from quite different schools! He’ll have to choose based on what kind of academic environment he wants, I suppose!</p>
<p>Please let us all know what happens July 1!</p>