The court record indicates that Obi tried to get Gibson’s to give ALL (?) first time offenders a pass, i.e., don’t call the cops on the first theft, just call the school. Enabling bad behavior is just gonna result in more bad behavior. It’d be one thing if the student was stealing a donut or loaf of bread bcos their finaid had run out for the term, but stealing wine so they could party?
Reality:
Ohio tort caps.
Pre cap versus post cap punitives.
Anyone want to kick a figure out?
This whole episode is a case of being overly “woke” (as in SJW ethos running amuck) making the college “broke” (as in being on the wrong end of damages incurred in the court case). What looked to be a moral molehill (shoplifting) has mushroomed into a proverbial mountain of misery for the college in question.
@#222
With regard to actual monetary impact to the defendant’s current budget:
I still think that this is clearly a big nothing burger. A score sheet correctly inputting the tort caps should indicate this. Perhaps so much so that the accumulation of additional attorney’s fees may become a limiting factor as to further litigation being pursued by the defendant.
On the pr/advertising side:
Just a wild guess but if you were to produce this volume of impactful, adversarial content and purchase this much media time/space and Interwebs clicks I think that you would be well into the 10’s of millions of dollars for this much reach and frequency. It would be hard to fathom that this self inflicted storm doesn’t produce a prolonged and substantial impact on the interim success of the institution in executing its strategic plan at least on an intermediate term basis.
Folks might find this article of interest - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-rise-of-victimhood-culture/404794/
The coverage of the Gibson case by a conservative Cornell law professor on the website Legal Insurrection has been very detailed and thorough. The coverage there gives a lot of insight into the legal strategies and the reasons for the jury’s decision.
@ivycover, there is an open question in Ohio over whether the punitive caps apply to the compensatory award before the non economic reduction occurs or after. Without knowing how that shakes out, it is tough to get to a realistic number for the actual judgment. Plus, there hasn’t been a dollar award on fees or, presumably, pre judgment interest. I think you are right that the “real” number is no where near 44 million, but it is still going to be pretty big.
The word that sticks in my head is ‘brats’. From the administration down to the student body they all seem like a bunch of entitled brats. When a brat gets confronted by reality they tend to bully up and double down.
Turns out this was a bad plan in this instance.
^^ from the article
What it told me was Oberlin needs to offer some grammar classes!
She used your rather than you’re three times (but used you’re correctly once, so she knows how to use the contraction) and he used their when he should have used they’re
Intensive purposes? Try intents and purposes.
Sounds like a really fun place to go to college.
@#226
We ended up with tort reform for some of the same reasons that led to mandatory sentencing.
People don’t like or trust judges and perceive that juries occasionally jump the rails of sanity.
Unintended consequences always give the pendulum of change that little spark of impulse necessary to keep it in constant motion. The amplitude of that arc varies as does the speed of its scimitar.
The Atlantic thread mentioned above is a must read to provide a view into Oberlin’s culture.
In this post, I will start with a bit of an aside before getting back to Oberlin. About a month ago, privatebanker started a threat about colleges which are underrated but really fantastic. That thread can be found here:
Early in that thread, somebody recommended Bennington College. For some strange reason, one factoid that has stuck in my head from reading Fiske Guide to Colleges in the 1980s was that Bennington College was listed as THE most expensive college in the United States at the time. Next, back in 2017 the NY Times wrote about college income mobility, and I remember Bennington listed there, and it stood out as having REVERSE income mobility; it took students from relatively high income families and managed to make them relatively poor at age 34:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/bennington-college
Want to guess another college that takes students from high income families and yields poor outcomes? Oberlin, where students come from a median family income of $178K, but end up with a median income of about $40K. Bennington, Oberlin, and Colorado College stand out because their students future incomes are significantly lower than other colleges from similarly situated families:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/oberlin-college
When I saw Oberlin’s low rating, I assumed that it was due to its renowned music conservatory, as musicians are not known for high incomes. But now I understand that the conservatory is only about 20% of Oberlin’s students, so that’s not the driving factor.
Do Oberlin students have such poor outcomes because they take low paying jobs that focus upon changing the world? Or instead are the students trying to succeed in the workplace and finding that their activist tendencies doesn’t do them any favors. I suspect it is a bit of both.
@hebegebe - Sounds like “Reverse ROI” in play here for these “selective” institutions - truly a Bizzarro World outcome. I was appalled by the venomous discourse and toxic culture fostered by a school in the Heartland (The Atlantic thread referenced in my earlier post). It read like a scene from Rod Serling’s “The Twilight Zone.”
@#230
I too waded through the Atlantic article. It is always important to understand the values and motivations of those you may be required to interact with (“The Art of War” makes this point.)
Negotiating the alternative universe of the left is problematic and often counterintuitive. Much is lost in abandoning antiquity. I think that there might have been satisfaction at hearing “at your service” and being assured that there would be a swift and certain resolution to any perceived slight and that the associated trauma served to discourage any consideration of so called “micro aggressions”. In point of fact, in the oc/cc, pickup truck states of the west one is much more unlikely to encounter profane verbal abuse than are the urban coastal residents.
@Ivycover In prior posts we seem to share a desire for respectful discourse. One in which the value of ones views are respected and discussed in pursuit of common ground.
Your post #232 (and in several other post) implies gloating, condescension and pejorative generalizations contrary to the constructive dialogue you claim to seek. I would hope there is a middle ground to be found that doesn’t require diminishing others.
Please don’t portray all liberals as perpetual victims that are rude and shoplifters. It is just as distasteful and inaccurate as suggesting conservatives are all pickup truck driving racists. In fact as Americans we all have a lot more in common than what differentiates us. Love of family and country etc…
Let’s avoid casting one another in convenient and self serving ways that demonize legitimate and heart felt beliefs.
@#233
Thank you for your words. They are noted and well received. That said, I’m comfortable with my previous comments and welcome all criticism.
The above is directed to your original message @#233 and the current message @#233 and all possible future versions. ic
John K. Wilson, wrote “The Dangerous Defamation Judgment Against Oberlin College” in the Academe Blog, arguing that the case should be reversed on appeal.
John K Wilson also wrote “Trump Unveiled: Exposing the Bigoted Billionaire”, Newt Gingrich: Capital Crimes and Misdemeanors" along with “President Barack Obama: A more Perfect Union”.
Just a hunch but I get the sense he comes at most things with a bit of political bias… @Gratefulalum on what basis is his view relevant or insightful versus say Tucker Carlson’s? When it comes to partisans like Mr Wilson their views are both predictable and largely void of nuanced thought as they start at conclusion and work backwards through facts and realty.
In regard to the article in the Oberlingrape referenced in #204 above:
The most powerful impression I had from the article was just how casual or unconcerned so many of the students were about their stealing from local merchants. Their nonchalant attitude seems to communicate:
“Well, that’s just what we do here”. Even the editor of The Grape and author of the article admits in the last paragraph
that he has stolen from some of the very merchants he interviewed for the article !!!
It seems to me that any Oberlin administrator that read this article would recognize immediately that there was a serious problem with Oberlin students stealing from local merchants.
@#237
The Grape and the Atlantic articles bring me back to Saul Alinsky and some of his techniques and justifications for various actions.
@#235
Wilson is being savaged in the comments section
and his reporting eviscerated.
Another entertaining piece:
https://www.salon.com/2019/06/18/why-do-conservatives-hate-oberlin-so-much/
Finally, this:
https://oberlinreview.org/18975/opinions/media-coverage-of-gibsons-verdict-misses-the-mark/