Congrats to him and to you and the rest of your family and connections. He sounds like a worthy person.
Two (2) things for you and those similarly situated:
While the right of the protesters to picket the bakery is firmly enshrined in law as to whether or not their action was just or moral is a matter of opinion.
Some of the associated actions of the "college" in this regard are "currently" adjudged worthy of compensation and punishment.
The name of the institution on your son’s resume received notoriety due to #1 above.
The notoriety associated with #1 above was and is perpetuated by #2 above. Continued communication by the institution with regard to both #1 and #2 above serves to extend that collective notoriety.
If the value of your son’s resume that would otherwise accrue to it in the absence of #1 and #2 above is indeed diminished as a result of their occurrence it would require substantial effort to quantify that amount. It would be equally difficult to effectively argue that the value of his resume was enhanced or that the value is not reduced in some material fashion save but for its review in the most narrow of circles.
Action do have consequences.
BL: Your son - like the bakery - isn’t the beneficial recipient of certain actions committed by others.
@JBStillFlying apologies for making that assumption. I have no idea where they discuss issues…is that what’s really Important here? Or is what’s really important that the issues are discussed?
@ivycover we are certainly critical of the way the school handled this whole affair and it’s effect on the schools finances and competiveness in attracting top academic talent. I’m simply pointing out that recent articles painting the entire student body with a broad brush are unfair and that it’s easy to overlook he academic rigor of the program.
“@JBStillFlying apologies for making that assumption. I have no idea where they discuss issues…is that what’s really Important here? Or is what’s really important that the issues are discussed?”
JBSF is fully qualified to speak for himself.
Myself - I’d just like to hear some underrepresented voices on the matter - particularly those with first hand knowledge of the environs and potentially the actual events. And I’d love to see evidence of introspection and inquiry.
“@ivycover we are certainly critical of the way the school handled this whole affair and it’s effect on the schools finances and competiveness in attracting top academic talent. I’m simply pointing out that recent articles painting the entire student body with a broad brush are unfair and that it’s easy to overlook he academic rigor of the program.”
Stay engaged. The active participation of you and those like you may indeed be critical to the restoration of proper governance.
@quietdesperation - No offense taken. There are several important issues here and you had posted (admittedly in a “since you made the point” sort of response to another commenter) that the students seemed to come to their own conclusions after reading the documents. You also point out that stereotyping the students as SJW’s is silly, that students are academically challenged and not spending their “woke” time planning protests and revolutions and the like. Those are fair points. So . . . can you please post some examples of independent thought on the part of some of the students, based on what you’ve heard from your son? For the benefit of those who are jumping to erroneous conclusions about the student body.
@JBStillFlying I can only repeat what I’ve already said, my son and a bunch of his friends read whatever they could about the case including court documents and came to their own conclusions. During graduation, prior to the court decision, I asked his friends what they thought and opinions were all over the place but a number of kids a) said they didn’t understand the law and b) were very critical of the administration’s handling of the incident.
I suppose a relevant point to be made is in response to @bluebayou comment:
[QUOTE=""]
That's a decent % of the student body -- probably higher % of the college than the conservatory -- that showed up to protest against a local store owner (or to make the point that shoplifting is ok?).
[/QUOTE]
175 out of 2800 is 6%, which is indeed a decent number. But you’re making my point here: 94% of the student body chose not to show up for the protest. Painting the entire student body based on the actions of 6% of the population seems wrong to me.
Oberlin College claims the Gibson’s original offer to settle was $30M. The judgement was $33M, and that was extremely high. They seem to be implying that they would have settled, but the Gibson’s demands were unreasonable. I had assumed Oberlin refused to settle at all.
@bluebayou do you really believe the protest was around the right to steal from local merchants?
At the time of the protest, there wasn’t a lot of clarity about the facts of the incident. The students protested what they thought was violent and unfair racial treatment by the store. With the benefit of hindsight,IMO the kids got their facts wrong, but nobody was there fighting for the right to steal from the store.
I’ve been following this case with interest because I am a professor who has to negotiate the culture of sponsored grievance prevalent in colleges nowadays, and because my grandmother went to Oberlin and I have always held it in high regard. Oberlin was always a progressive school. However, I think it’s time that college administrators draw a line. Reed was able to do it. Administrators and “student life” bureaucrats cannot foment these illiberal and disruptive protests without consequence. It does an extreme disservice to the students and to the institution. I think the punitive award is excessive and probably reflects town/gown cultural resentment; I’ve no doubt it will be adjusted. Nonetheless, the Oberlin situation is being closely watched by other colleges and universities. Oberlin has made itself into a cautionary example about catering to student activists’ performative “wokeness” without regard to the world beyond campus. It won’t end well.
@hebegebe " I don’t buy that the Gibson’s demanded $30M at the beginning, given that they sued for $13M"
are you sure gibson’s sued for $13mm? I’m not saying you’re wrong but I’ve never seen that figure mentioned. Here is the court filing, and it looks like it’s a min of $25k per offense.
Partly (as the college seems to be of the opinion that students should get one strike free). So, that is part of the school culture, no? And if so, that would lead credence to the “violent and unfair treatment” belief.
Yup, but I would have expected some of those high quality LAC critical thinking skills to prevail…but, obviously, those were in short supply, even with the College Admin.
The minute any reasonable person heard that the students were arrested for robbery, they should have immediately questioned the protest. Critical thinking would be - “hmmm there was a crime… perhaps this was self defense on the part of the merchant. What happened? What does the police report say? Bodycam?”. Not a rush to a racism judgement.
@bluebayou
"Partly (as the college seems to be of the opinion that students should get one strike free). "
one strike free? Never heard of that. do you have a pointer where you read that?
“Yup, but I would have expected some of those high quality LAC critical thinking skills to prevail…but, obviously, those were in short supply, even with the College Admin.”
again, 150 to 200 people attended the protest, 2600 did not. Seems like there was some critical thinking going on. And we can always use more critical thinking…I believe there was a war in Iraq that could have been avoided with a little better critical thinking by some very smart, well-educated people.
@quietdesperation it was part of the complaint - can’t believe you have read that anywhere. It was much discussed on this thread including students attitudes toward shoplifting from local merchants in an Oblerlin student publication.
@JBStillFlying maybe those students who you are complainning about not spending their time posting on social media aren’t posting because they don’t have the free time to do so and were part of the 90% of Oberlin students that didn’t make this a cause celebre and part of a large portion who didn’t agree with the position of the students who protested. Maybe they are like my son who is a thousand miles from home spending 8 hours a day in a medical research lab doing a summer internship, who then spends 15 additional hours per week studying for the MCAT and 10-15 hours per week working out for the sport he plays at Oberlin.
Getting 5-10% of the student body to show up for anything that doesn’t have free beer or pizza or movies is quite an accomplishment. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree to the relative meaning of the number of demonstrators.
The suit targeted the administration, not the students. That’s because the administration failed to exercise good judgment and because they egged on the students and capitulated to inappropriate student demands rather than standing up to mob hysteria.