“agree but it’s not clear to me that the Oberlin administration realizes its reputation is toxic and in tatters. It’s like they’re blind to it.”
They are blind to it because of their self righteousness. They have yet to show any contrition, and if no one gets fired and replaced- nothing will.change.
Oberlin may not care about its reputation, but it may lose some students who do care. Some students want to be SJW (and what says SJW better than protesting Kung Pao Chicken or against a small bakery?) but others just want to go to college without the anger.
“Even after the verdict, I’m not even sure that the Admin and Trustees believe that they were wrong.”
Indeed.
Many groups on the fringe believe their cause to be just and worthy of conflict and sacrifice (particularly when it isn’t their own resources being expended).
They can hardly fare worse in the 6th circuit.
6th circuit? I am not a lawyer, but doesn’t it have to go through state appeals court first? Could a federal court deal with the amount of damages? Would there need to be a federal law or constitutional issue to go to federal courts? I suppose they could appeal based on free speech or something.Oberlin could probably keep it in appeals for years if they want to though.
Looks like Oberlin has no plans to settle. From Oberlin’s President: “By now many of you will have heard about the latest development in the Gibson’s Bakery lawsuit, a jury’s declaration of punitive damages against Oberlin. Let me be absolutely clear: This is not the final outcome. This is, in fact, just one step along the way of what may turn out to be a lengthy and complex legal process. I want to assure you that none of this will sway us from our core values. It will not distract, deter, or materially harm our educational mission, for today’s students or for generations to come.”
@shuttlebus “Let me be absolutely clear: this is not the final outcome!”
George Armstrong Custer’s last words have also been mythologized. While being swarmed by hostile Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapaho warriors at Little Big Horn, Montana on June 25, 1876, the colourful 7th Cavalry commander reportedly shouted platitudes and encouragements to his doomed men. “Hurrah, boys"!
Hurrah Oberlin!
Well, the next Board of Trustees meeting should certainly be interesting. Would love to be a fly on the wall listening to that.
Do you really expect them to just pay up without attempting to at least reduce the award amount?
@shuttlebus While the next stage after final rulings from the trial judge is to file an appeal, I think they will also consider a negotiated settlement, after all they state it may turn out to be a “lengthy and complex legal process” (implying it equally well may not) and the next paragraph reads:
“We will take the time we need to thoughtfully consider the course that is in Oberlin’s best interests. I will update the community as we make these decisions. I am confident that when we resolve this matter, it will look substantially different than it looks today.”
The problem is that as I noted above, from the Gibsons’ perspective any settlement needs to be of order $10M+ and I don’t think that will be able to be portrayed by Oberlin as “resolving this matter” for a sum which is “substantially different” from the original verdict. But given the probability of overturning the verdict is likely rather less than 50%, settling for $10M would be the smart thing to do and in “Oberlin’s best interests”.
Colleges file financial reports, similar to how for-profit companies do. Here is Oberlin’s financial report for the year ending June 30, 2018:
In Section 14, they deal with litigation. Here is the relevant snippet, noting they didn’t expect any exposure a year ago:
I expect Oberlin will settle for a large ($10M+) but undisclosed amount with the hope that this goes away and nobody knows how much it cost them. But that’s not that easy. In a for-profit company, the new estimates for litigation exposure would expected to be listed here, as they are material, but the rules for non-profits might vary. But even if not mentioned here, I think the accountant would demand they be listed in the financial statements, and a year-to-year comparison would reveal the rough value of the estimated amount and the final amount.
hebegebe “Well, the next Board of Trustees meeting should certainly be interesting. Would love to be a fly on the wall listening to that.”
Theoretical question:
If said fly were to be exposed to enough idiocy of an extreme nature in this circumstance could it be induced to laugh with such vigor that it could lose its previous perch on the wall and literally be ROFLMWO?
Full board met June 6-7 (wonder what the report from the legal committee was?) and next meeting scheduled for October 3-4.
https://www.oberlin.edu/general-counsel-and-secretary/trustees/meetings
There have been comments about settling the case. These efforts are normally excluded from the court record. it takes both sides to agree to something. Probably, Oberlin tried to settle, but the other side would not accept it. Looking at the rear view mirror, we can say Oberlin should have settled for $10,000,000. Prior to the trial, it would not have done so.
Assuming Oberlin is liable, what are its damages? The jury is saying that if you and your supporters in the public stopped buying bakery goods in November, 2017, and thereafter, from the person who is sued you at that time, even if there was no conspiracy to do so after November, 2017, you are liable for their lost business for 30 years. This is a terrible result, and I hope is reversed on appeal.
I can say there is a lot of animosity against Oberlin in Lorain county. It is perceptions of spoiled rich students from the coasts versus locals, hippies versus working class, liberal views versus conservative. Oberlin failed in getting the case moved.
Second line of second paragraph: I should have said: “who sued you”.
^^ I believe the jury award was not based on stopped buying from a business that sued you but on defaming a business as racist in retaliation against said business reporting crimes committed by your students with the corollary of any small business painted as racist in a college town would be forced to close.
Which is why Oberlin is focusing on the free spech defense imo. Which I find ironic.
There is also some insurance coverage, so when Oberlin reports any settlement in the financial reports, that may not be the full picture.
Insurance does not usually cover intentional torts, as in this case. I believe the insurer has already declined coverage.
Follow the case. Insurers have bailed. Malice isn’t covered.
It actually sounds from Oberlins’ statement like they are going to settle this.
I have to give Oberlin credit for their principled stand for the right of minority students to shoplift and beat up shopkeeper who try to stop them.
So if one organization(first organization) calls another organization(second organization) racist, and the first organization loses at trial, it can be held liable for the second organization’s business losses for 30 years, even after memory of the event has long faded. The key legal question is how much of the business loss was caused by the racism comment? After a couple of years, probably none, so there should be a lot less damages. The fact that the first organization and its supporters in the public stopped doing business.with the second organization after the lawsuit was filed, or the second organization is in a non-lucrative industry, or is bad at business, should not be taken into account in determining damages.