<p>I've heard my counselor and elders saying, "oh, if you don't get into the university you really wanted to get into, and if you don't feel like moving away, just go to a community college and transfer. you'll be fine ! " I know they're right, that with excellent grades at a CC, (esp. if you're in a honors programs), you can later transfer to a fine 4-year university. It seems as though CC is seen as the "easy" way out and people simply tell themselves ""meh, what's the point of stressing over if I'll get into this school; i can go to a CC and then transfer, voila! " (although there's no guarantee that you'll transfer to the uni. of your choice). Aside from that, what are (if any) the downfalls/disadvantages of going to a CC first ? (I know some of the benefits are financial, namely that CC charge much, much less than universities.)</p>
<p>Theres really no downfall other than that you aren't experiencing the full college life. Most likely your spending 2 years at home while going to your local CC. Its a great way to do things, but you aren't getting the dorming, living on your own kinda deal. </p>
<p>There are a lot of awesome transfer programs you can do, just call your local CC to find out. Obiviously if you went to one of your safeties, you can transfer from those in 1-2 years.</p>
<p>It's funny how we spend so much energy talking about every four year college there is, and what makes them unique, but when it comes to Community Colleges it's as if they are all the same. Why is that?</p>
<p>I have a friend who went back to college at the local CC. She said some of the professors also taught at the local 4 year colleges (including Lehigh) and moonlighted at the CC. This friend is now at a four year college finishing up her degree and has said that it was an easy transition. My daughter is taking an on-line course from the same CC and has been fairly challenged. She is also taking an on-line class from the University of Kansas and has said that the CC prof is better and the whole on-line procedure better organized at the CC. She's a rising senior at a small private college in IL.</p>
<p>I agree with Jason that what you are missing at a CC is the "full" college life, but don't assume that if you were a B, C student in High School you will automatically be an A student at a CC.</p>
<p>CC's are great for those that do their work diligently without the need for competitive stimulation and an intense academic environment. This wasn't me - I would have shown little interest in doing any work in a CC because it would have been unlikely that I would have been challenged by a number of high achieving other students - the only thing that ever got me to do schoolwork. A personal failing? Absolutely. Improved with maturity? Yes, quite a bit. But the point is that I think I CC is great with someone who has their head on straight and knows its strengths and limitations. That wasn't me in my college years and I am certain I am not alone. With the right person, though, a CC can save lots of money and get a better start in life. And I agree with the notion that they are not a place to get easy "A"'s - although I do intuit that a focused, sincere effort (that is, lots of work) will generally result in pretty darn good results at a CC with some pretty good transfer offers obtaining.</p>
<p>The problem with CC and transferring to another school is that you must have that school's requirements in mind going in. A lot of students local to me encounter this problem- they try to transfer to a 4 year school and find that they are missing classes they need to move on in their chosen major, either because they didn't want to take them and CC didn't force them to or because they weren't offered/didn't transfer.</p>
<p>this is less of an issue in, say, english than it is in the sciences. If you take super general chemistry at CC, and try to take organic at a university, you will probably tank, since the level of knowledge just won't match up.</p>
<p>It can be a good option for those looking to save some cash and not go into a highly specific major- but if you want to be a scientist or mathematician or statistician, you'll probably encounter difficulties when trying to attend a more rigorous university.</p>
<p>Some CC have a lot to offer. Others seem like lower level technical schools. It depends on what area you're in and what the demand for good community colleges is.</p>
<p>That said, I've never met someone who did an AA program to BA program who didn't have to retake or otherwise redo a class they took at CC. Some colleges simply don't agree that the quality of education is the same and will not transfer some classes (again, usually sciences/math). So while the credits may be cheaper...you might end up paying twice.</p>
<p>The UC (California) system works closely with California community colleges; the articulation agreements are well documented and counselors are on hand to advise students. Each UC is different, and not all of them articulate with all CCs, so students need to research this before they begin. So the upside is, this is an assured path to a UC for students who do the work. Transferring out to a private 4-year is not assuredly smooth.</p>
<p>The downsides: CCs here offer many remedial options, not so many rigorous academic offerings. So a very well prepared first-year student will run out of challenging courses well before s/he earns an associate degree. Thus, a very focussed math/science/engineering student might be frustrated. Conversely, a liberal arts type will likely enjoy sampling all the challenges offered.</p>
<p>Also, the classroom environment certainly won't equal that of a selective LAC. CC lecture classes are usually huge and impersonal with no chance for discussion -- which is probably just as well because only a few classmates will have done the reading and be prepared for intelligent discussion. Assessment tends to be done with optical-read multiple-choice tests, which certainly doesn't encourage divergent thought. (A notable exception was a bio course D took last fall that included labs with 12-16 students each, all taught by the department head, with bluebook essay exams actual READ and commented on by the prof.)</p>
<p>D ended up choosing a small LAC for its scholarly environment. If that hadn't worked out for her, financially or otherwise, she would have chosen the community college over the local UC to which she was admitted. It's a much better deal financially, and with careful selection the classes can be excellent.</p>
<p>The Community College peer group, one of the main reasons for attending college, is a disadvantage to serious academic study. The students are not as serious, they are not as diligent, they are not as bright, they are not as interested, They are often trying to combine work and school. Check the percentages of those who complete their Aa degrees, those who actually do go on to a BA program and those who graduate from a BA program. CC is not for the weak of spirit.</p>
<p>If you have any opportunity to attend a 4 year college, particularily at residential college, grab it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The students are not as serious, they are not as diligent, they are not as bright, they are not as interested
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</p>
<p>I take exception. I'm sure you meant to malign the "average" student, but it comes across as too broad a generalization. As I suggested above, bright, capable, ambitious kids here do choose CC for those first two years -- in droves -- because it's economical and leads directly into the UC system. Agreed it's not as enriching, academically or socially, but it's just wrong to suggest all CC kids are turned off to school.</p>
<p>I agree Celloguy.</p>
<p>Having taken some of my science/math requirements at a CC -- no way was I going to compete with the pre-med & engineering geniuses at my competitive UC -- I have to agree largely with cheers. The classes I took at the CC were simply easier than at the university. There WERE some very diligent, intelligent, hard working students at the CC - but they were almost always the adults. My peers were not anywhere near as academic, nor as as serious as the average traditional UC student. </p>
<p>I also remember a house-mate who transfered into the physics department from a well-regarded CC. He ended up flunking out, despite a stellar career at the CC and intense work at the UC. His sad conclusion: even though he took all the most advanced math available at the CC, he simply did not have a rigorous enough a preparation to compete in the upper division UC courses.</p>
<p>On the other hand -- hell, I'm a dinosaur. Maybe it's a different story at the CCs these days...</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Like Celloguy, I take exception to this statement as well and wonder how you can possibly make such a blanket statement as the one above. There are many bright, high-achieving students that choose to attend a CC over a 4-year university. Our local CC has an honors program, classes with no more than 50 students, professors who also teach at 4-year universities, etc. A lot of motivated students attend the CC and, yes, some of them must combine work and school for economical reasons. I think I would admire them for that...not condemn them.</p>
<p>Agreeing with Celloguy and momof only. </p>
<p>My S took about twenty units of math and science courses at the local CC after maxing out the program at his high school and was subsequently accepted to a selective UC Engineering Program. When we spoke with a department advisor on Admitted Students Day, we asked if these courses were rigorous enough or if he should consider repeating these courses at the UC. The advisor told us that the CC courses very adequately prepared students for upper-division classes, and in fact, transfer students tended to have higher junior and senior GPA's than the non-transfer students.</p>
<p>At least in our family's experience, the students and academics at the CC's cannot be broadly stereotyped.</p>
<p>hmm, well that's a tough decision. Thanks for all the input guys; i didn't think it was so complicated. For example, I didn't realize that perhaps some CC courses would not properly prepare students for specific majors.</p>
<p>each community college is different as far as strength of classes. Our local community college does a much better job of preparing students for upper level math than does the local university. They have been tracking this for years and kids who take the lower level maths at the CC (algebra through Calc III) do better, grade-wise, on the upper level math classes.</p>
<p>The opposite is true for English. The CC tends to focus on basic writing skills -- more like an advanced high school class. The University teaches critical reading and Rhetoric -- much better preparation for upper level classes that will require writing.</p>
<p>you have to talk to the department heads to really get the full scoop!</p>
<p>We are in CA. My son took CC classes in high school and over the summer. They were not easy....in our area anyway, Santa Barbara City College has a good reputation, an honors program, and a very well articulated agreement with the UCs. Many students choose the CC route because it is a huge financial benefit to take the first two years at the CC and go on to one of the UCs. That is not the route our son chose for his college years but definitely each CC must be evaluated on its own merits and it is not fair to speculate on all CCs or all CC students.</p>
<p>hmmm, thanks everyone. My CC is very good too, with an honors program, etc. However, in case I don't get admitted to the colleges of my choice, I may resort to going to the CC, which is ok. Once again though, I just want to think it through and I don't want to make a mistake about going there, if there are some downsides that I don't know about (ie. how CC factors in being prepared for a uni. and how it factors into employment, if it does at all, etc)</p>
<p>Btw, i forget to mention that my counselor said it IS possible to go to a CC for only 1 year (instead of 2). So, 1) that's possible right, if you work really hard ? 2) many colleges ask on their websites "incoming freshman or transfer junior". so if you're actually a transfer sophomore, is that acceptable, or they don't allow transfer sophomores ?</p>
<p>Gooduniforme, It truly varies from college to college. Some colleges will NOT read applications for transfers who have completed less than 30 credits. Given that you will likely need to submit your applications to some colleges after only one semester of grades at a CC, this may rule out some options for transferring after just a year. And, in many states, agreements with four year schools are based on completing a certain number of credits at the cC (this is the case with the UC's). But again, it varies from school to school, so if there are certain schools that you hope to transfer from, you'd be best to check upfront before making the decision to apply to CC.</p>
<p>I would also suggest that you find out the General education requirements of all of the schools you might wish to transfer from, and focus on completing those at the CC level. It is fine to take one or two introductory courses in your intended major at a CC, but it is probably best to save the bulk of your major work for after you transfer. That way, you will get the "best" education possible in your major. In reality, there aren't many differences between the content of introductory and GE courses, whether you're studying at a CC or a 4year university. Although, as others have noted, this too varies from school to school and your educational experience may also be affected by the peer group in these courses.</p>
<p>A final, very important thing to do if you go the CC route is to meet with the counselors at the CC's in your area and ask for details about any specific agreements they have with 4-year schools, and where their students typically transfer to. It can be VERY difficult to transfer to some of the more selective private schools (i.e., Ivies, top 20 schools, etc.) from a community college. </p>
<p>Most important of all, if you have SOLID 4-year safe bets on your college list, you may not need to go the CC route. Keep in mind that it is sometimes easier to transfer to more selective colleges after two years at another, good but less selective, 4-year school than it is from a CC. So, do your research and homework upfront so there are no surprises.</p>
<p>Fine. Back your support up with stats showing how many CC grads go on to complete 4 year degrees, then post how many CC grads go on to post-grad degrees.</p>
<p>Though I know the UC system is better than most states, CC is a far inferior option and the stats will prove that. It's not that the classes are not tough, it's that the peer support is unreliable and demotivating. </p>
<p>I am rabid about this topic, a la mini, because I believe many lower income kids (the majority?) get shuffled into CCs as a 'viable' option when the degree isn't anywhere NEAR as viable as the 4 year residential college degree. Sorry, I cannot make nice about CCs. </p>
<p>Community College is a trap, IMO, for all but the super bright, super driven students--maybe 10%? It is the choice of LAST resort and I am not afraid to say that.</p>