I also like the idea of a “congratulations” list that is open to the public. It would come at the price of some loss of privacy, but, also illustrates what a tempest in a teapot the whole thing really is. On my long list of broken things that require fixing, ED is close to the bottom.
There’s 27,000 high schools in the United States. I laugh whenever this idea comes up of high schools having a relationship with college admissions departments. Williams, Grinnell etcetera may have a relationship with a very select few high schools but they are not on a first-name basis with 27,000 times 3 or 4 guidance counselors per school.
I hope that a kid who was involved in a custodial dispute or who needs their mother’s location protected from their father would be able to keep their full name off of a “congratulations” list. Their mother and their younger siblings may be at risk if locational information like the high school they currently attend is shared. And if the schools don’t share the name of the high school, other schools can’t be sure that they’re looking at the same kid’s application.
“I laugh whenever this idea comes up of high schools having a relationship with college admissions departments.”
I’m not talking about a “relationship” per se but it will hurt a high school’s future applicants if that high school has problems with ED students not following through. It just will whether folks realize it or not. It’s in a HS’s best interests to not realize transcripts willy nilly when a contract has been entered into. Given that things are handled electronically these days, its not too challenging either.
I agree that releasing a congrats list is rife with problems and an invasion of one’s privacy. There are many scenarios where that isn’t desirable.
My best guess is that since this an antitrust inquiry the Justice Dept. is concerned with the effect of ED agreements & ED information sharing practices on competition among colleges & universities for the best students, and upon ED practices that lessen or otherwise affect competition among students to get the best offers from colleges & universities financially and otherwise.
The fact that all of these schools meet full demonstrated need may call for further suspicion on the part of the government as to effect upon the higher education competitive marketplace. Who determines “full financial need” ?
Clearly, ED practices have a substantial effect on the competitive marketplace for college & university admissions. Equally clear is that the effect is to lessen competition.
I don’t see how this is true. Plenty of kids apply EA to many, many schools (in addition to ED), and we aren’t just talking about top tier. We are talking about top 100. Otherwise, applications wouldn’t be up 10-20+% in a single year, like at VT and FSU (for example).
Have you looked at the way EFC is determined? “Meets full demonstrated need” does not necessarily automatically mean “affordable”, especially when different colleges calculate full demonstrated need differently.
“I am a huge fan of ED, at least at meets-full-need colleges. It is wonderful to have to write fewer application essays and to be able to relax and chat with future classmates on a GroupMe, for months, while one’s high school classmates are nervously writing and waiting.”
You get these exact same benefits with EA, fewer apps, relax, chat with future classmates what’s the difference? If you get accepted to MIT EA, it’s your first choice the FA package is good, you’re done right? But of course with EA, you’re not locked in, huge benefit to the student.
The odds of EA are less than that of ED at many places. That’s the tradeoff - commitment for increased chances. The school benefits and students can benefit from the arrangement.
That assumes that ED continues to exist…
“The odds of EA are less than that of ED at many places. That’s the tradeoff - commitment for increased chances. The school benefits and students can benefit from the arrangement.”
It didn’t used to be that way, but then when US News rankings started to take on more importance, colleges knew they could game the rankings by shifting more of their class to ED, increasing yield, deceasing acceptance rate. Even if they account for only a small percentage of the rankings, the perception that you’re tougher to get in is big. There are articles on how Penn and Northeastern did this.
“On my long list of broken things that require fixing, ED is close to the bottom.”
lol it’s in my top-5 along with common app and US News rankings, but I know, I’m a dreamer on these, but hey maybe I’m not the only one. I think the common app is good for the basic info so an applicant doesn’t have to enter the same thing over again, but after that it would be good for each college to have their own app, like in the good old days, (with or without typewriter).
“it’s in my top-5 along with common app and US News rankings”
Of all the things the DOJ could/should focus on??
“These top colleges also are the colleges that offer need-blind admissions and that meet full financial need of applicants, so lower income applicants can apply ED.”
That is not the main reason that ED is discriminatory against lower income families. The reason that most ED applications are from upper middle class or upper class is that they’re in school districts that know the ins and outs of the ED process, i.e. when to get the application ready, the latest testing date that is acceptable, when to approach for recommendations, when to write the essays, when to take subject tests etc The GC and support staff at the lower income school districts do not know this, by and large.
No, of the things broken with college admissions, at least to the selective colleges.
ED is designed to help the colleges managing yields and meet their financial goals. Its yield is 95% or better, a number even Stanford and Harvard would envy. ED applicants tend to be wealthier on average so that benefits the colleges as well. These colleges claim to have the same standard for ED and RD applications. Don’t believe it. Sure, an ED applicant has to meet the minimum standard but it’s lower than the standard in the RD round when there’re a lot more applicants and a majority of seats have already been taken by ED. ED is not designed to benefit the applicants, other than a small minority who knew exactly what they want and financial consideration is secondary. For the majority of applicants, they would lose their choice both academically and financially.
ED applicants now routinely take up more than 50% of any freshman class in most colleges that offer ED, and the percentage is increasing as colleges become even less certain about their RD yields (with applicants applying to many more colleges). This percentage has already approached 70% or even 80% when ED2 is taken into account at some colleges. This has the effect of lowering the RD acceptance rates even further, which make applicants to apply to even more schools, causing RD yields to be even less certain, and colleges would have to increase the ED percentage even more to compensate, so on and so forth. It’s a death spiral.
Am I the only one who sees this as the implication by announcing the investigation is floating the idea that in the early rounds, schools are comparing lists of students, to somehow divvy up the full pay kids, or the full needs kids? If so, I could understand the anti-competitive concerns.
Do these 7 schools all have ED and/or ED2? Do these 7 schools release the percentage of their class accepted ED vs RD?
Nonetheless, the benefits to applicants are (sometimes) a slight increase in admission chance, but mainly elimination of stress after December.
“Am I the only one who sees this as the implication by announcing the investigation is floating the idea that in the early rounds, schools are comparing lists of students, to somehow divvy up the full pay kids, or the full needs kids? If so, I could understand the anti-competitive concerns.”
I’m confused. How could schools do that when each student only applies to one school ED?
^ and if that was what the schools were trying to do, wouldn’t they have to share lists of applicants, not lists of students that they have already offered admission to and who have accepted that offer?