<p>momofthree, I just posted on that thread. I don't know that parents of juniors will read all of those posts. Just reading all of the good advice must seem daunting! </p>
<p>Your son will finally get a good taste of New England weather tomorrow! I believe we will get a nice snowfall tonight and it travels into New England a few hours later! 8-12 inches expected (a little more for ppl living in Long Island)!</p>
<p>
I'm sorry, and I'm not trying to be unfeeling but that really bothers me. You speak with such certainty ("that is what will happen"). Again, I thank my lucky stars I am not in that position but I think I'd have to work a little on my trust issues with my kid before I did anything else.</p>
<p>Sometimes it is not about trust issues with the child as much as it can be letting your child be bliss in their ignorance. This keeeps the child from being pulled by 2 parents who do not get along and having one parent contantly looking for information about the other parent from the child.</p>
<p>Northeastmom,</p>
<p>I set up a separate e-mail at the beginning of the process for college related stuff that I use for the fafsa. Kids who are complaining about the process now, trust me you will not even think about remembering to do the renewals in subsequent years because you will be bogged with school, friends, etc.</p>
<p>The renewal IDOC is already prepared, D will sign when she comes home on spring break, then we will drop it in the mail box.</p>
<p>But they have to sign it sybbie. Did they sign it without reading it?</p>
<p>I've linked this thread to the Parent's forum because I feel this an important issue. And ignorance ,however blissful it may be ,is not a concept I can endorse on sworn documents with criminal penalties for false statements, nor is it a defense to such false statements. Do y'all ask your kids to sign their tax returns without reading them and understanding them, too?</p>
<p>When parents who do not live together file the financial aid information, the school does keep their information from the other parent.</p>
<p>Noncustodial Parent's PROFILE Application</p>
<p>If your biological or adoptive parents are no longer living in the same household, your noncustodial parent must complete the Noncustodial Parent PROFILE Application on the College Board's website. The College Board will e-mail you instructions for completion of the online application to forward to your noncustodial parent. Your noncustodial parent's information will be inaccessible to you and your custodial parent. </p>
<p>We sit down together and run her numbers in a tax return, she does not make enough money or get scholarship aid over the cost of tuition and therefore is taxable as income so she does not file, she is listed a dependent on my taxes.</p>
<p>But that's the Profile sybbie, we're talking fafsa or at least the OP is. And I can't recall whether Profile requires the kid's sig or not. I don't believe the Profile farm and ranch/business form does. BUT the OP is talking about Fafsa and that has to be signed by the kid, right? How do you sign something that you haven't read? How do you advise your kid to sign something they haven't read?</p>
<p>I'm not knowledgable about the law, so I can't speak to that point. However, back in the day, I was not privy to our family's financial situation. My folks, who probably should have divorced, 'shielded' me from financial realities to no particularly good effect that I can see. Sometimes what's good in the short term has unfortunate longterm reprocussions. </p>
<p>It is pretty odd whipping out the 'ol W2's with someone whose diaper you used to change. But I have a lot of respect for my son and what he did to get into his school, and if his dad and I can't trust him with our personal information, I surely don't know who we can. Besides - now he knows for sure that there isn't a grand family fortunate - and he had better pay attention in his classes :-)</p>
<p>cur/calmom:</p>
<p>what if the student is only 17, and, I think, not of legal age to sign anything binding? Also, when you think about it, for a kid to really KNOW what's in the Profile and FAFSA, they would have to essentially 'audit' the entries...as in "OK, dad, show me the mortgage interest statement...Where is the property tax bill, etc. Did you really have lunch with JoeSchmoe which results in a tax deduction on Sch C vs Schedule A." To a certain extent, even the IRS 'trusts' that tax forms are completed honestly.</p>
<p>I grew up in a broken household, and my Dad always took the position that he did not want to disclose his income to us kids so we would not know, and would not be in the position to be pressured by his ex to divulge info. As I got older, I appreciated that position -- couldnt' cough up the info -- even accidentally -- if I didn't have it.</p>
<p>hsm: the only thing our SAR lists is the fed's version of EFC -- no income nor assets.</p>
<p>btw: our house is like Sybbie's...</p>
<p>What am I not seeing? Did your kids sign the dang Fafsa or not? LOL. Sybbie and blu , ya'll have proven time and again to be reasonable folks so I know I have to be missing something here somewhere but I just don't get it. If 17, I guess an argument can be made (but I think this is an instance that the Feds have decided otherwise) but what about next year? That argument will be gone. Why not just include them now? The Profile doesn't go to the other party and I don't think the Fafsa even has to include the non-custodial's data so......what is the big deal about them seeing and signing the doc or is just not a child's place to know how much their parents make and have?</p>
<p>I do have one friend who will answer no data questions. Ever. To anyone. He and limits the knowledge his kids have because he has mega large 8 figure money and fears kidnapping (he travels in kidnapping prone areas). That I get. But folks filling out FA data aren't usually in that spot.</p>
<p>I just want to mention that there may be other reasons parents aren't eager to give full financial disclosure to their kids besides divorce, etc.</p>
<p>My H and I are married 30 years and fully trust each other. I trust my kids as well. BUT I do not share with my kids all our financial info. The reason is that I want my kids to go out into this world expecting to make it on their own, and not counting on some cushy inheritance some day. </p>
<p>Not that we are what I consider really rich, but we are evaluated by all FA formulas to be full-pay at a private college, so we are more than comfortable, IMO. Our income is straight W-2 and investment earnings so there is not (not that there would be anyway) any number fudging. </p>
<p>However, we submitted the aid paperwork (FAFSA and PROFILE) as we wanted our D to be able to take out Strafford loans so she would have a financial stake in her college experience. We simply did not want her to take anything like this for granted. This is simply a position my H and I wanted to take, and which we had discussed with our D.</p>
<p>When it came to the paperwork, I had my D's authorization to file online in her name and hit that button. I also have power of attorney for her (for other reasons).</p>
<p>There is more behind our doing it this way, but no need to go into it. However I did want to make the point that full disclosure of ALL parental assets to kids as young as 18 is not necessarily the ONLY way to go.</p>
<p>Imnsvhgdo, the crux of the matter here isn't how to keep the financial information private from the student, it's how to get everyone to act like adults: both divorced parents and the student. Parents should not be using their children as pieces on a post-marital chessboard and the child at 17 or 18, even if prematurely thrust into "maturity" via parental divorce, should have an understanding that they are not spies or agents for either parent.</p>
<p>From resolution of this issue, all else flows easily. Including a lot of other issues.</p>
<p>I realize this is likely to provoke a chorus of "Yes, but's...."</p>
<p>cur:</p>
<p>I understand your position, which makes a lot of sense. Having worked in Human Resources in a former life, I guess I'm just used to the 'need to know' basis, when it comes to my miniscule wealth". The only thing my kids need to know is how much I'm willing to contribute for their college, and, therefore, how much they will have to 'pay', either thru scholarships, grants, loans or work.</p>
<p>OTOH, if kids want to sign the doc, they are in their "rights" to do so...they just don't want to take the time, and probably don't care bcos it's been made clear that our parental plan is to spend every last dime before we are gone.</p>
<p>I would never propose that all the dirty laundry or nitty gritty needs to be discussed if there is something ghastly out there ("Yes , son. Your Dad is being investigated for those time shares he awas selling on the 'net but don't worry.") and certainly not all the whys and wherefores but did you share any of the financial data with her, jyber and if so-how much or did you just use the power of attorney as enough authorization? W-2 income? Home equity? Where is it reasonable to draw the line? </p>
<p>A lot time on the boards some of us are accused of being overinvolved in the process, helicoptering, and not letting the kids be responsible for their own decisions and/or mistakes. Stay mute. Toughen them up. Rah-Rah. Push them off the end of the dock. They'll swim or drown. Is this a different thing? Trust them to pick their college major, their college, their dorm and for God's sake stay mute but then again- don't tell them how much the house is worth , how much you and your spouse make so they can enter it on a pretty simple financial form that requires their signature and will for four years? Till they are 22? Folks, I think you got some wires crossed on this one.</p>
<p>Im wondering how this atmosphere of witholding information works- when it is the student who has the abilty to either grant or deny access to his information- like with grades- health records etc.
My daughter had to sign something, actually two forms, one to allow me to be contacted in case of health emergency, the other the ability to ask to see her grades.
Oh and also something so that the bills came here instead of to her dorm room!</p>
<p>I look at it as 2 issues: </p>
<p>1.Is it important to let your kids know how much you make, have in the bank, how much debt, what you pay out important ?</p>
<p>or</p>
<ol>
<li>Do you basically need to let your kids know at the end of the day how much you can afford or are willing to borrow toward their education?</li>
</ol>
<p>to me #2 is the important issue and the one after everything has been said and done is the one that most families is going to operate from.</p>
<p>This is the conversation that needs to happen before anyone brings the hope of a college to the table for discussion.</p>
<p>Because at the end of the day it really is not an issue of what you have or what you make, the more important isssue it is going to be an issue of what one can afford or are willing to pay. </p>
<p>We recently had a big discussion with a parent who made 160,000/yr and said that he will only be able to afford to pay $10,000 even though his EFC says he can afford to pay $40,000. </p>
<p>Regardless of what you, I, his kid or the college thinks, is his financial situation or his postion on how much he is going to pay change? most likely not. </p>
<p>Is foot stomping by the kid, listening to other CC parents ask why he doesn't have the money all of the sudden going to make him get the money? Nope</p>
<p>The other side of the coin is that there are families that make very little money and move heaven and eart (rack up OT, debt, work second jobs, do with out) just so they could pay for their kids education. </p>
<p>Should you child be constantly reminded for feel guilty about the sacrifices that you are making for them and have to wear it like an albatross around their necks? Most of us parents will say no, because feel that we do this becasue we love them and want the best for them, and don't consider it sacrifice.</p>
<p>In a perfect world and perfect situation, people would/could fully disclose, pay what they have to pay and call it a day. One thing you find out especially when it comes to money there are not perfect or ideal situations. </p>
<p>There is really no right or wrong answer families are going to do what is best in their situation and that includes the decision whether or not to fully disclose.</p>
<p>Blu,</p>
<p>I am also a former HR person and it is the nature of the job; you only give out info based on the need to know :) </p>
<p>I always tell my daughter, don't bother trying to gaslight me I too am dying broke :D</p>
<p>Still sybbie and blu , aren't we still skating the issue of signing the fafsa? Your child swore it was right, didn't they? How'd she do that if your need to know policy excluded them from knowing?</p>
<p>Let's see who all did it which way. I'd be interested. </p>
<p>I'll go first.</p>
<p>My daughter saw the fafsa and "signed" it with knowledge of the numbers it contained.</p>
<p>Yes, she signed the fafsa I guess she trusts me to tell the truth and and takes solace in the fact that I am a very risk adverse person, who is not trying to do anything that remotely resembles criminal activity :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I would never propose that all needs to be discussed but di you share any of the financial dat with her , jyber and if so-how much? W-2 income? Home equity? Where is it reasonable to draw the line?
[/quote]
Home value is pretty available to anyone with a computer. My D is aware that we paid our mortgage off years ago. My D has a pretty good general idea of our income, which has fluctuated over the years. She is also aware that we, over most of those years, lived well under our income. Our priorities were saving for retirement and for college for the kids and for a rainy day. That rainy day came when she was a senior in high school, and my H became unemployed for 15 months. (Still did not qualify for aid because of assets in D's name, previous income, and anticipated future income, as well as house equity. All, including D, were amazed that we still sent her to her dream school.) </p>
<p>One issue my H and I have is that our kids have grown up in a comfortable area and some kids around here take A LOT for granted. That turns off my H and myself. So we always down-played our financial cushion with our kids. We encouraged the kids to have jobs in high school (D worked in a hardware store and a fabric store) mainly for the work ethic value. The experience gave D great exposure to people who did not take anything for granted.</p>
<p>Just our baggage, I guess. I always answered any questions from D honestly. She never asked for details beyond what I was comfortable answering. She knows we hope to be independent in our old age. We also hope that she will be independent in her young age!!</p>
<p>Our daughter has a general picture of our financial situation but not the gory details. She filled out all of the student income and data sections on her own and trusted us to fill out the parent sections. She knows all pins/passwords; but we have power of attorney and did not have to share them. She respects our right to our privacy and we respect hers. She doesn't view our hard-earned assets or a college education as something that we are obligated to give her. And in return, we will gladly share those assets and provide that college education to her. She considers us well-off and herself personally poor, which is as it should be. Most importantly, we do not take her for granted and she does not take us for granted.</p>
<p>That being said, it is ridiculous to conclude that knowledge of personal information on a financial document will somehow teach a child how to manage money, maintain a budget or make their way in the world. I recommend a student get the following: a job, a checking account, a credit card, and a decent work ethic....that will teach the cold hard facts of cash management.</p>
<p>And I would not answer the question about who signed what document on a public forum.</p>
<p>(Also, we did the separate email account for college/SATs, etc... as well. Works great...highly recommend it.)</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, the reason that a parent is required to sign and why the parent gets a separate PIN is that the PARENT is signing off on their own financials -- not the kid. </p>
<p>And as to the kid's data, if the kid is under 18, then it is o.k. for the parent to sign for the kid on just about anything. In fact, if the kid's assets are in a UGMA account, then the parent is likely the custodian in any case and in many cases the kid may not even be aware of the amount of their own assets. I can assure you that my kids wouldn't have a clue as to how many US savings bonds they have or how to value them unless I gave them the figures.</p>