Kid struggling in conservatory environment

His appointment is set for Thursday. He has made some positive changes in his life but these things are not linear. In my dream world, accomodations would be made that were helpful and wouldnt require me spending another four hundred or more per month to get the help he needs.

cellomom6, I don’t really have any advice. Just sorry to hear your son is struggling, hugs to you and I hope things work out. Glad to hear he has an appointment coming up, that is a good start.

I do have to say that musically in highschool, he did really well. He was in a small chamber orchestra and his chamber director never let anything slip. It was a close relationship in that if he didnt like something, hed just invite my son over and theyd work on it. That is why I thought a smaller liberal arts school would work better.

So one of the biggest differences between high school and college for my son has been that, in high school, he had a really close relationship with his HS jazz director. Reasonable, since out of 100+ kids that the jazz director dealt with on a daily basis, there were only a small handful who were targeting to go into music. That made my son a special student. But, in college, the entire music school is full of special students just like my son. Special teacher-student relationships do exist but they don’t happen immediately, especially for freshmen.

Even private teachers usually have a studio of students, all talented. My son really likes his current teacher but, for the most part, she expects him to be self-sufficient and self-motivating; she expects him to practice on his own and be prepared for lessons. The days of practice logs are over. In his ensembles, there’s not much personal attention. Again, directors expect ensemble members to come to rehearsal practiced and prepared. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not that he doesn’t learn a lot, but the expectation isn’t all that different from an academic class where the professor lectures (and inspires) but the students are responsible for developing their understanding on their own.

I’m not saying this to be harsh; just describing what the music conservatory environment is like for my son. He actually gets the most support from other students; they share techniques, ideas, practice together, help each other with music projects.

I understand that. I guess that honestly, i think it is ridiculous to expect a certain outcome but also not put much energy in helping that student achieve it. Im not saying that is happening here necessarily. He is getting extra lessons from a TA. But his chamber music director used to teach at a music school too and did prepare him to come prepared. Its just that some things are beyond your technical ability. I think a mix of self advocacy and extra help from your teachers is what is needed for some studebts that they admitted. I did not send my son to a conservatory to be taught by his peers because his teacher is too busy. If I were to do it over. Id send him to a lac with a teacher that had the will and the time.

Why the “extra lessons”? Does he have a primary private teacher? Does he like him/her, and feel mentored? Is there anyone there that he feels a connection with, like one of his teachers, an RA, a TA? Perhaps more importantly, is he able to have that conversation with you, to let you know how he’s feeling about his teachers and his perception of how they feel about him?

It still sounds to me as if transferring to an LAC would be the best course here. Conservatories, for whatever reason, just don’t seem able to provide the kind of accommodations some kids need- or the “support” (sorry to generalize, and others are welcome to disagree!). Music at LAC’s also has the potential to be multi-faceted, with some relief from the pressure to be tops in classical. Perhaps your son could take a gap year or a semester off and then apply to a more personalized, supportive, but excellent program at a college.

I did want to say that he was not treated special by his music teachers back home. They did that for everyone that wanted to learn. And his students from better conservatories than my sons come back and study with him in the summer and do not do summer festivals. Id try to pay extra and they refused. Id definitely say it is a culture shock going to a conservatory and not getting that level of mentoring. And my son not being at a certain level didnt bother him at all.It just meant he needed more work and he helped him. I dont know why this is such a foreign concept. I realise this is somewhat a different subject than posted but maybe this thread will help a parent or student make a decision.

It may be that if a student doesn’t practice and misses lessons, the attitude of the teacher might be affected. Or a teacher might kind of give the kid some space to work things out or get to a different level of motivation, which could feel like less attention.

Just one thing about LACs. Look carefully at the non-music course requirements. Some schools have few and other have tons, including lab sciences and math (U Md comes to mind as one where there were so many non music courses! My D would not have been motivated for that, and it would have been a source of major stress).

I don’t think it’s a foreign concept. I just don’t think it can be assumed. College faculty have a different set of roles and responsibilities than K-12 teachers. Classes meet less frequently and your course teacher is rarely the same person as your instrument teacher. You still haven’t mentioned whether he has a private teachers now – and by “private”, I mean a college faculty member who gives him one-on-one lessons on a regular basis – but that’s probably where I would start.

My son’s in jazz, so the role and importance of his private teacher may be a little different, but even so, he met and had a sample lesson with the person who would most likely be his private teacher at each school. All were still active performers but some more focused on being educators than others. A few were downright famous “stars” and, in those cases, we considered the pros and cons of opportunity vs availability/accessibility. One of his favorite teachers now, an ensemble director, is on campus only one day a week because she tours so much. At another school where he applied, he would have had a legendary private teacher, but who essentially lives in NYC and commutes across the country every week. I think these kinds of scenarios aren’t uncommon in music conservatories. And, fwiw, these things definitely impacted my son’s decision process.

I’m really sorry that your son is struggling and can imagine how stressful it is for you to try to help from so far away. I think, in your shoes, the action I take would depend on what my son ultimately hopes to do 3.5 years from now when he graduates from college.

I am sorry to read that your son is struggling. Out of my experiences I have two recommendations: #1 Encourage your son to ask for all of the help that he needs and #2 If that doesn’t meet his needs, it may be time to consider transferring to a different school.

My daughter (who recently finished an MM degree) was asked by her private teacher to be a life coach/practice coach for a 19-year-old freshman who was having difficulties coping with organizational issues of college life. I don’t know if the university has grad students, or if there is one who would be appropriate for this job, but perhaps that is something to look into. The family paid my daughter privately.

I think when your son is struggling like this, you can’t necessarily base your decisions on what he “ultimately hopes to do 3.5 years from now when he graduates”. Sometimes, you have to go week by week, semester by semester. And taking time off can be so helpful. I also don’t assume that your son will “have trouble in any kind of music school environment” although It sounds like you’ve identified some specific challenges that could benefit from regular sessions with a coach. I agree that a music teacher is not probably equipped for that type of coaching; however, it doesn’t sound like he’s getting any support at all from the school. Sometime, though, I think you have to be an advocate for your children even when they’re no longer children. These type of issues can be very difficult for 19 year olds (or anyone) to get in front of. All that being said, my son’s at a conservatory where the teachers are very supportive, and I think it’s a reflection of the department head.

" I think a mix of self advocacy and extra help from your teachers is what is needed for some studebts that they admitted. I did not send my son to a conservatory to be taught by his peers because his teacher is too busy. If I were to do it over. Id send him to a lac with a teacher that had the will and the time."

I think you would find that your S might have trouble at an LAC as well if you are talking a music school in a BAC with a BM program. If your son went to an LAC and took lessons and did chamber and such as a non major, which a lot of colleges without BM programs offer, it likely would be different, but then again the level of playing and expectations is lower in that case than a BM, it is basically kids who enjoy music doing it because they love it, and while some kids who go that route can end up doing music in grad school (that is not uncommon in the ivy league music program, where many of the kids in it were at a high level before going to college, likely getting a ‘real degree’ to please mom and dad). A BA has different requirements, it isn’t quite as intensive, but if the teacher was any good they likely would expect a lot out of the kid, too…if not then quite honestly, I would wonder how good the program was.

As I wrote in my prior post,BM programs are tough because so much is expected of the kids. It is very different in high school with kids taking private lessons even with teachers who have taught at the college level, often the expectations are less or they take into consideration the kids age and such. Even at top level prep programs like Juilliard pre college, SF conservatory pre college, CIM, etc, even though these are generally top level kids being taught by top level teachers, it is still different than it is in a conservatory, the pace increases in college, and again there is generally more put on the student in that situation, it isn’t as big a jump as the kid who never was in such a program, but it still is.

And conservatory teachers are very busy, some of them have a lot of students, numbering into the 20’s, plus if the teacher is also a performer, like for example someone in a symphony or whatnot, their time is even more scarce. Some teachers have teaching assistants or grad students or artist diploma students they will get to work with students, if your son is struggling with technical stuff maybe the teacher can suggest someone who can help. My son has worked with other teachers and grad students with his teachers approval, to work out things he had problems with, so it isn’t that unique. On the other hand, if your son is having trouble with maintaining a practice schedule, with trying to find the time to do the various things and that is causing him problems, then GlassHarmonic may be on to something, perhaps your S needs someone to show him the ropes, give him ideas on how to deal with things. If he has met older students they may be able to help, or perhaps his teacher or someone at the school could suggest someone who could help, mentor him,might be worth looking into.

Perhaps others have additional insight but, from the information the OP has given here, I don’t have an understanding of what the struggles actually are. Seems to me all of the responses are guessing. Since there was no answer and the discussion has gone more in the direction of faculty support, I’m going on the assumption that the struggles are more with course content, music skills, grades – regardless of what the underlying causes may be. If he wants to ultimately be a working musician, then regardless of school accommodations, there are milestones and skills he has to reach and acquire. If not a working musician, then I think it may be more important to find an environment where he has a better chance to succeed in general.

If it’s actually life struggles then, I think it’s a very different story.

There are issues of confidentiality. I have pm’d quite a number of people. Im sorry I did not get to your questions yet personally.

@ScreenName48105 you’ve given some very thoughtful suggestions here. I agree that I’m reading between the lines - easy to do in this kind of territory. Seems to me plenty of students transfer to other schools upon realizing that the program doesn’t fit. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’re not cut out for music or a conservatory or even college. After all, this site exists cause it’s not one size fits all! Maybe it’s so daunting for the music students as there’s such an investment made in the selection process.

There’s absolutely no need to apologize and my comments weren’t intended to make you feel like you needed to explain or give any more information that you’re comfortable giving. I know that, as a parent, we struggle whenever our kids struggle, so I feel for you.