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<blockquote> <p>The student asked for a key to be let into a dorm he was not supposed to be in and lied about it. He could have been anyone.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>That bothered me, too.</p>
<p>Imagine the response if the situation was that the custodian let a man in a dorm who had no right to be there and lied to get access and some coed got assaulted or worse. If this school employee did not report every single case of attempted access, there could be dire consequences. If the school had a history of letting things like this go, they would be uninsurable. As far as the severity of the punishment, it is too bad the young man did not have someone with influence to vouch for him at his hearing: a favorite professor or the Dean of his school or anyone who could have stood up and told the university how valuable he was and what a mistake it would be to let him go. There isn't a lot of leeway for mistakes that young people make these days and I'm sorry your neighbor's friend was expelled. Hope things go better for the young woman.</p>
<p>this kid blew it being stupid, for many reasons mentioned in this thread. And his girlfriend... should be in trouble also. They planned out ahead of time how they were going to break the honor code. It was PREMEDITATED! They knew that they were lying, and they hoped to get away with it.</p>
<p>Some schools have honor codes that are just there, and some take them very seriously. Honor codes are the reasons some schools give un-proctored exams, or let you do exams on your own time, in your dorm room, or wherever, even if there is a time constraint. I'm anxiously awaiting to hear what happens to a kid at my school who used a Student Senate debit card for $140 worth of personal purchases... he claims he was going to pay it back.</p>
<p>here is the excerpt from my school's honor code about lying:
[quote]
49
1. Lying is the expression of a material untruth made with the intent to mislead another or with reckless disregard for the truth of the matter asserted. Lying is a violation of the Honor Code when the material untruth is uttered or presented, verbally, electronically, or in writing, to another member of the College community (student, faculty or staff), to any person while on College property or at activities sponsored by the College or College-affiliated groups, or to any person when the student actively represents himself/herself as a student at the College. An untruth is material when it relates to or affects in a significant way, academic as well as non-academic activities of legitimate concern to the College community. Lying includes, but is not limited to, forgery or the use of false identifications, under the above-described circumstances.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Something to watch out for: turning in 1 assignment for different classes without permission.</p>
<p>honestly... I'm surprised some people are defending this as "harmless".</p>
<p>
[quote]
She thought he had obtained it honestly. She will have her hearing next week. But her mother (my neighbor) sprang into action immediately and obtained a lawyer to assist her daughter at the hearing. In her case, we are hoping the sanction will be less heavy because the young lady did not lie to anybody.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think the GF knew how her boyfriend obtained the key.</p>
<p>However, it still does not negate the fact that the D knew when the move in date was and still moved in ahead of time. With in the honor code there is no right way to do something that you know is wrong. Considering the young woman has a previous honor code infraction against her, the school may not be willing to wink twice.</p>
<p>jiffypop
[quote]
**And calling them "lowly staff' is not right. They are employees whose job it is to watch and protect the premisses of your children. And good thing they took their job seriously.
[/quote]
**
Not a pejorative comment about staffer but rather the fact that the student would put a non administrative employee's job at risk. I concur, safety of housing units is of concern. My objection was to a student approaching an employee at the bottom of the authority chain to accomplish his scheme. This demonstrated lack of respect for the employee and hubris. I don't think that my description of lowly employee was an attack on the person.</p>
<p>
[quote]
She thought he had obtained it honestly.
[/quote]
Doesn't matter. She may have thought that he had permission to be in the dorm early. But she knew that she did not have permission to be in the dorm early. How he obtained the key is irrelevant.</p>
<p>I agree, though, that there is probably more here with the boyfriend than meets the eye.</p>
<p>The issue of access to a dorm and lying to staff (regardless of position) is serious. But expelling the student seems overly harsh. I would think a one-semester suspension would have been a strong enough message, if the BF truly has a good academic and discipline record.</p>
<p>But if that's what the honor code says, then the kid knew the possible consequences.</p>
<p>I agree with Chedva about the girlfriend.</p>
<p>I agree that lying to staff is serious, as is improper access to a dorm. I also think that expelling a student is overly harsh. I don't know what punitive options are available, and the honor code does need to be followed, but expelling a student for this really does not seem appropriate for this breach in the code. JMO, and perhaps we do not have all of the facts.</p>
<p>I'm shocked at how many parents think it's ok for this young man's life to be ruined (being expelled in junior year?!) because he made a stupid mistake. Yes, he was stupid and it was wrong. But seriously.</p>
<p>How would you feel if it was your child?</p>
<p>Rutiene, I do not think this is "ok". I happen to think this is really awful.</p>
<p>Oh please. Not earning his diploma from an honor code university is hardly a life ruined. The worst of this is that he will have to research what college/university will take his transfer credit and trust me, there are vast sums of such schools. The only ruination was his plan to have a diploma from XYZ.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How would you feel if it was your child?
[/quote]
I am not a parent but I know my own parents would expect me to find a school, pronto. This is about an institution not wanting unsavory types carrying the school name into future shameful situations. Honor codes do mean something.</p>
<p>I agree with hazmat, that there is probably more to the story. I think some people in trouble will tend to tell their stories in such a way as to gain sympathy for their situation.</p>
<p>A kid in my d's school was caught cheating on a test, and to hear him tell it, it was a first time, silly error in judgement and he was only trying to help out a friend. If you heard his explanation, his punishment did indeed seem a bit harsh. The real truth was that he had been cheating pretty much his whole way through high school and someone finally decided to turn him in.</p>
<p>I just find it hard to equate academic cheating with getting a key so you can move in early.</p>
<p>I just don't see a reason for anybody to be bad mouthing the kid when nobody can know the entire story without some real insider 'scoop'. Anything is possible, but just because its possible doesn't mean the most probable. What I see from this story is the university making an example out of this kid, and I feel for him. </p>
<p>Is it wrong that he got kicked out? Its not something we can judge, but let's be frank here. If you get kicked out of school for an honor code violation, that's a permanent black mark on your transcript. Not to mention the bad timing, he'll probably have to delay his graduation due to application deadlines. Fulfilling graduation requirements will also become a big issue since he's already in Junior year. And no doubt, I don't feel he deserves to be bashed in this thread for a foolish mistake.</p>
<p>Yup, I saw this at my high school and almost NEVER was the infraction a first time. There had nearly always been a history of poor behavior, followed by warnings and discipline which didn't resolve the hubris. Some folks don't change until they actually face the embarrassing separation. They frequently cry foul when this penalty is forced upon them. Nearly every case offers the opportunity for voluntary departure.</p>
<p>Academic cheating and theft? What do you think would make you support separation from an institution? Some would view moving in early as stealing. Either he didn't want to do the work required of most folks who move in early.....such as working for student orientation programs or leadership position as an RA or was denied such.</p>
<p>Rutiene, I don't equate the two, I just give that as an example of how a person can tell their story in a way that can make it look very different from the truth.</p>
<p>I edited more into my post while people posted.</p>
<p>
I just don't see a reason for anybody to be bad mouthing the kid when nobody can know the entire story without some real insider 'scoop'. Anything is possible, but just because its possible doesn't mean the most probable. What I see from this story is the university making an example out of this kid, and I feel for him.</p>
<p>Is it wrong that he got kicked out? Its not something we can judge, but let's be frank here. If you get kicked out of school for an honor code violation, that's a permanent black mark on your transcript. Not to mention the bad timing, he'll probably have to delay his graduation due to application deadlines. Fulfilling graduation requirements will also become a big issue since he's already in Junior year. Considering everything we do know, I don't feel he deserves to be bashed in this thread for a foolish mistake.
</p>
<p>Bashing? I think this discussion is about a particular infraction and the resulting consequence. I have read NO bashing. I think the discussion has been factual as it relates to any honor code violation and any consequence. </p>
<p>On another note I interpret this student to be a rising junior and as such he likely has 4 more semesters or perhaps fewer to complete a degree. Trust me, there are many schools who will admit him.</p>
<p>I never said he'd have trouble finding a school to admit him. But graduating on time will probably be hard to accomplish, and finding an employer ready to overlook an honor code violation is even harder. </p>
<p>And I apologize for my poor choice of words. I read some pretty harsh criticisms of his actions that came off as 'bashing' to me. I still can't think of a better descriptive term.</p>
<p>I understand your emotion. I think that graduating on time will be no problem. Likely his biggest concern will be preparing his explanation to employers but keep in mind this is not a felony conviction. Many students have "situations" and this is just ONE.</p>