<p>Ive had this question in mind for sooo long you wouldn't believe it, and I still dont have the answer:
For Someone considering a career in Medical Research but with a desire to be a "life-long learner" and social activist...Better to be at a....
-Small Top-Level Research University (more sciency, but with a liberal curriculum)
I would say the pros here are obvious - the resources at a research university are phenominal. (professors engaged in research, moneh)
-Smaller Liberal Arts College (a flat out liberal arts education)
Here - Ive been convinced that a liberal arts education is better for the mind and fosters life-long thinking in a broad aspect as opposed to the narrowed approach at a research university.</p>
<p>One opinion was that people at liberal arts colleges are too rounded, and thus can never achieve greater things in a specific discipline (weak arguement, and i doubt its valid)
Another opinion was that liberal arts colleges are good at sharpening the mind for a more focused education in grad school.</p>
<p>Opinions are opinions, and I hate it but I do admit to having certain preconceived notions about each category without proper backing. I guess its all way too subjective for discussion but Ill try it anyway.</p>
<p>Ill be attending a small research university in the fall but Im kinda wishing I applied to a liberal arts college - and I may consider doing so as a transfer (Swarthmore, Oberlin, Vassar to be specific) any suggestions?</p>
<p>You can also see it this way. While liberal arts students can talk about a wide range of topics and sound intellectual while doing so, research university students can only talk about a small range of topics and will sound stupid and ignorant about others. Liberal arts students are more well rounded, and learn how to think about diverse topics rather than investing all of their time and energy into a small sliver of knowledge.</p>
<p>just because something is labeled a research institution does not mean that you will not be able to get a great liberal arts education along with that.</p>
<p>While I agree with Bob, I do have to say that more research exists at LAC's than is commonly believed. And Liberal arts colleges are a lot stronger in the sciences than most people believe.
I think it's the environment that's really different, at a LAC the profs are there as your resources and to teach you and they genuinely care about how you do. I'm very interested in medicine but I believe that the discipline needs to take from all aspects of education, which is why I shall be attending Wesleyan University this fall.
I plan on majoring in Neuroscience and Economics, and taking random philosophy etc classes that just make me more aware about different modes of thinking and help me find out who I am. I'm also happy about the fact that all the awesome equipment on campus is for me to use and play with, which is never a bad thing for a science major :-)
I think liberal arts colleges are more conducive to change in the world and within oneself and due to everything that happens there, I think they help you truly find yourself, which is extremely important.
You don't have to go to a Tiny liberal arts college. I didn't want to go to school with less kids than i went to High School with which is why I looked at Wesleyan and colgate. Oberlin and Vassar also have similar numbers.
The truth of the matter is that the blur between disciplines is constantly increasing and one has to bring all disciplines to work at once. Philosophy and ethics play such huge roles in science, which is only one such example.
Each of the two different types of schools field different people. You just have to figure out what you want in a college and then the decision will become apparent.</p>
<p>i've been through education at a large research university but being curious about how my education experience differed from those who went to a LAC i've discussed it with two people who got their bachelor's at lacs</p>
<p>the first thing that struck me was that when they heard about all the history and social science classes i took, most of which were GE requirements, they were surprised that a big research university would require all this - i think they had certain pre-conceptions that i would only take English and math for first year and then move on to my major or something like that ... but i took social science and language classes even after i've competed my GE requirements, just out of general interest, along-side with all the science courses</p>
<p>however, i discovered that on interpersonal level i made less connections than they did at LACs - the class sizes are so large and there are so many classes offered that often you will not see same people again and again in your course so you just lose connections you've built - heck, sometimes you don't even realize well into the 3rd weeks of classes or so that someone you know is taking the same course - whereas at lac i guess you get to make more permanent friends</p>
<p>of course at my university there were many pre-med students (practically every 10th person you met) and they had various clubs and work-shops and practice MCAT sessions, and courses in ethics and literature, and an entire wing of advising department tailored especially to them, plus all these medical research labs to do research at, and many clubs to prove their leadership abilities in ... i don't know if they would have had all these resources had they gone to a lac</p>
<p>as far as research goes, yes lacs have research opportunities that are great - but it is research done with undergraduate students only - which means that even though it is less competitive to get into a lab, the only people you get to learn from besides your advisor are other undergraduates who probably don't know any better than you while at research universities you have grad students and post-docs who will train you - and more opportunity to have your name on a paper published in a good scientific journal</p>
<p>You will be learning from your professors and sometimes masters/grad students if you're working in a LAC lab depending on the school.
The entire 'who don't know any better' arguement doesn't work since i've had friends in college telling me that the grad schools they've been taught by or worked with have been giving them the wrong information or marking their correct papers wrong. The prof had to fix everything haha.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that LAC colleges can be very strong in the sciences and in research - Oberlin is actually one of the strongest colleges in the sciences and produces a ton of PhDs in Science every year.</p>
<p>Kihyle, your experience seems to be much different from the experience I envision at my future research university - The University of Rochester has an incoming freshman class of only roughly 1000 students for a total of 4000 undergraduates. That is a very small size compared to other research universities - which can make it similar to a LAC college. Also - the UofR has no required courses and encourages interdisciplinary study. Soo Its sort of like an LAC too there, but I still feel like I'll be missing out on a certain atmosphere/attitude that I can only find at a LAC. </p>
<p>I already know what I want from college - and that is the blur of information that ridethecliche described. I understand that as a potential future medical researcher, the resources of a research university are very useful (the resources of a LAC, no matter how great, are still no match to a research university - just the sheer number of research labs on campus provide alot of options in what I want to get exposed to), yet I feel as if I wont get as strong of an education in other disciplines such as the humanities and the social sciences - I want to come out of college as a well educated individual, not just in my major but in other subjects too.</p>
<p>I need more opinions from people who've attended research universities, but it seems as if people who've gone to one type of school will never realize what they would have gotten from the other kind. It's kinda sad really...</p>
<p>btw - sorry if this questions similiar to you ridethecliche, I was the one who pmed you about this and you gave me a very helpful answer about the UofR =) Thanks hehe, but it still nagss oh it nags - maybe I just need to get on campus and see for myself (ive visited tho ,and it feels very nice -
The people there are very friendly and very laidback. They struck me as the intellectual kind (my kind of people=) ) and they were very open-minded about things, as I noticed in our discussions - so they dont fit that description of the close-minded research university individuals. Overall I feel liek I could see myself there- with the people and the professors.</p>
<p>I still sense the disconnect between the sciences and the humanities though - most of the people I spoke to were science majors and they didnt seem too interested in studying stuff out of their field - like english or the social sciences. but maybe I just need to find the right people...)</p>
<p>I think that will happen though. At a LAC, regardless of what people are focused on, they will have interest in other things. That's why they picked a LAC.
Sheer number of Labs doesn't guarantee that you'll be able to use one. It's proportional, as there will be more undergrad science students and grad students who will also be using the facilities. I think it's easier to get involved in research at a LAC earlier unless you're a complete hotshot at a university. My experience with wesleyan will be different since i got into a program there, and I have an aunt who works for Rochester's med school and she says that they do a very good job about getting Ugrads involved in volunteer at the med school if they want to do medicine.
While I was at wes, I got into a conversation with a black student there about affirmative action and we ended up relating it to neuroscience and behavior and psychology. She seemed really interested in things outside her comfort zone, and the no required courses at Rochester, while the cluster system is awesome, I feel it encourages many students to stay within their comfort zone. That's just what i've seen.
Just because a university has this awesome lab and state of the art equipment does not guarantee that you'll have a chance to use it.
What are your choices again?</p>
<p>Hmm wait so you had this conversation with a student who went to wesleyan right?
It is true though - I believe the no required courses at Rochester actually encourages people to stay in their comfort zones rather than branch out.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the only school worth mentioning on my acceptances list is the University of Rochester (the others are various lower colleges -mostly states and safeties, one honors program at a state university)</p>
<p>I guess my best bet now is to go to UR and see if I can strike up something similar to a liberal arts education with the Rochester curriculum and I'll do an overnight visit at a LAC college and compare my experiences at the two before considering a transfer.</p>
<p>Im hoping that I'll be able to make it work at the UofR, but if I still feel difficulty branching out , I guess ill have to start lookin at transfer.</p>
<p>My decision to apply to only 1 LAC really screwed me over eh? xD A friend of mine told me his professors at Swarthmore already know him - i cant help but envy that kinda personal experience lol.</p>
<p>What LAC's did you get into?
You can PM me if you don't want to post it on here. I'm not discounting UR, it's an awesome school. You can make the most of the program to branch out, or to consolidate to your interests. You can get a great LAC experience at Rochester. It's an awesome school, i just think that the cluster system is a double edged sword, awesome for those who want to explore, but also for those who don't want to.</p>
<p>I only applied to Oberlin and I got waitlisted there, I'll be sending letters and recommendations soon but I havent got much hope.</p>
<p>I think it's amazing how personal LA colleges can be, I wonder if I'll find any professors at the UofR who'll be supportive of my Liberal Arts approach to college.</p>
<p>You'll have good profs at UR. There are tons of opportunities there if you choose to seek them. Don't be scared to approach profs about your hopes aspirations and dreams. The biggest mistake you can make is to not try, if you do try then that door WILL open. There's an advantage to going to a smaller research university, and it appears as though you just might find that out :-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
There's an advantage to going to a smaller research university, and it appears as though you just might find that out :-)
[/quote]
Nice to hear =) but what makes you say that? just curious lol.</p>
<p>I will definitely try to get to know the professors - they are, afterall, the people I aspire to be (they're moving mankind foward through research). </p>
<p>If i can find people who're interested in helping me get the education I'm looking for at UR, then UR'll definitely be a great fit - but its couldnt hurt to try for the LACs next year I guess ;P]</p>
<p>Oh and more evidence that Liberal Arts Colleges are just as strong as the large research universities: <a href="http://www.cofhe.org%5B/url%5D">www.cofhe.org</a> financially and academically - the Members of COFHE collaborate/cooperate to improve the quality and to gain funding for undergraduate education together
Look at all those liberal colleges collaborating with the top research universities in the nation, and UR's up there too =P(i was surprised lol, looking at all the prestigious names on the list - i didnt expect to find UR there)</p>
<p>Rochester's an awesome school, that's why it's up there. If you've read your rochester history, then you'd know that rochester was formed from a sect of Colgate students/faculty/etc who weren't to thrilled with colgate anymore. University of Rochester is a school that does have name recognition and it is recognized as one of the best research university's in the US and in the world.
I'm sure you'll be able to form a fostering environment at rochester, don't go in thinking that you're going to be transferring because then you'll never have given it a chance. I have a friend who goes to a very good prep school in NYC and he's going to rochester, he didn't get into the ivy's and some of the schools that he had wanted to go to but he visited rochester again and he was impressed. He had wanted to transfer but now he's planning on doing a 3-2 program there.
You'll have tons of opportunities at rochester, I said what i did because opportunities exist everywhere, you just have to work to find them.
I have a friend who's a freshman at penn state, and she's already doing paid research in her professors organic chemistry lab. She's staying there over the summer to do that also.
This is a student at a huge state school who's working in a lab with graduate students and getting paid for it. Rochester's a lot smaller and it's research opps are awesome. Just go looking and you'll be met with things you never thought you could have.</p>
<p>Thanks again ridethecliche! -
i know ive made you say the same things over and over again, im just kinda hardheaded/stubborn sometimes =)</p>
<p>But it was not in vain, ive been convinced that UR is a good school and Ive already psyched myself to make the most of my incoming first year - I do realize now that the opportunities at the UofR are probably alot more available to me than if I'd gone anywhere else!
I probably wont take the 3-2 program because I'm interested in getting a doctorate, but I will definitely consider the Take 5 program at UR.</p>
<p>So thank you for your continous support, Im sure you'll go on to do great things at Wesleyan yourself - you definitely seem to have the motivation to do so. Good luck! Hey we should keep in touch, Id like to hear of how you're doing @ Wesleyan, I have a friend who might be enrolling there this fall so we'll see.</p>
<p>PS - I never knew UR was formed by former-Colgate people haha xD. Just curious though - How'd you find that out about UR?</p>