Currently deciding between a small LAC and a large state school. I am curious to learn more about the benefits and disadvantages of both situations, particularly for a pre-med student. Of course there is no clear cut answer, but I want know as much as I can as I weight my options. Reasons why you or your child chose one or the other situation and/or how it turned out would be great!
Thanks!
There are hundreds if not thousands of threads already on this EXACT same topic. Try searching the forums. Might as well practice those research skills you are going to need for college level work.
There are state schools that are LACs or LAC-like.
http://coplac.org/members/
I’ll take a crack at it. LACs have smaller class sizes, and more classes are typically taught by professors. You may be able to get help more easily. Odds of having a TA that doesn’t speak English well are lower at a LAC – that can make it really hard to get a good grade.
As far as I’m concerned, the only advantage for a large U for pre-med is that sometimes they have an affiliate hospital where you could volunteer. But you can also try to get that experience over a summer, too.
Med school is expensive. Going to the cheaper undergrad might make sense.
I think it depends… at least in part… on the specific LACs and state schools you are comparing. It also depends on the student’s preference, etc.
This thread was still raging as of a few days ago; you may want to take a look at it:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1908340-high-end-college-vs-honors-program-at-state-college-p1.html
It depends. You can get a great education at either, and who you are will influence your experience more than anything else. But this response will discuss some of the most common differences to consider.
I also think “which” school matters to this answer, too, in terms of the student body. For example, although all schools will have a range of students including some very smart kids, U Michigan at Ann Arbor or Berkeley or their ilk will have a larger precentage of tippy-top achieving (in high school) students than say, Ursinus or Allegheny, although those also are great liberal arts schools. Go to a less selective liberal arts college than those, and the difference will become more pronounced, because some top middle class kids will always choose less expensive state universities above top private schools, but many students are less likely to pick a less competitive LAC above a more competitive state university.
My son will begin at a very selective small liberal arts college in the fall. He chose to apply there early decision, so his choice was made before acceptance. He was also accepted to our state’s most selective state university early action. It is less selective than some other states’ top universities, but still selective: about 40% of applicants. It would have some very strong students, which is important.
BUT…
The state school would have mostly large lecture classes his first few years. His LAC will have mostly small discussion-based classes. (There are literally only two large lectures: Psych 101 and Art History 101). Probably every professor you ever have at a LAC will know your name, even if you are quiet or shy.
Sometimes, state universities will have more choices of courses than do smaller colleges. That is generally a plus for larger schools: more choices! In my son’s intended major, however, his small LAC seemed to have more options per semester than the state university he was considering.
At state schools, it may be hard to get into a class with a renowned or preferred professor, especially if it is not a large lecture class. More people want it than can get in. There was never a class I could not get into when I attended my LAC. Registration was painless.
At the state school, top undergrad students who are real go-getters may find their way into close relationships and research with professors. Graduate students may get more such opportunities. At a LAC, this is more the norm for more undergrads. Professors reach out to you with opportunities, and there may be more opportunities— there are no grad students taking these roles, just undergrads.
Who teaches you? State universities may have TA’s teaching and may have more adjunct professors who may come and go. Small privates almost never have TA’s, and may have more tenure track or tenured folks there for many years of their career.
Our state school would have large dorms of mixed grades and one would make one’s own social connections. His LAC has a cozy entry system where 20 freshmen live together with a junior and there is an extensive freshman orientation program. You will find your niche in time at a large school, maybe from your favorite clubs or your major. At a small school, there often are built-in communities from the start.
Our state school has mostly New Yorkers. On the GroupMe for his LAC, he already is interacting with people from all over the nation and world.
The tight community he craves at a LAC might be suffocating to someone who prefers anonymity. A state university is like a small city onto itself. Lots of people, lots of dining choices, etc. You can cross the grounds of a LAC fairly quickly by foot and may see people you know en route. At a large state university, you may have farther to travel between parts and there will always be new people to meet.
At a LAC, it is easy to get involved in any extracurricular activity you want. There are fewer people involved, and it is easy to join and to lead.
From my state university, if you look at Harvard and Yale law schools’ undergrad origin info online, maybe one kid a year ends up at those top law schools. At his LAC, there are several students going on to these schools each year… even though the LAC has only 2000 undergrads and the state school 13,000. Ditto for PhD programs… the top LACs dominate the lists of undergraduate origins of PhDs, and his state school is not near the top 20. The top small colleges have fewer kids, but send more of them to top graduate programs!
Small schools lead to tight communities. LAC alumni tend to be loyal for life, which also drives them to donate and offer internships and networking. From my son’s college, if you want an internship or an employment offer from a top firm in investment banking or consulting or Google or something, the connections are there for you.
The small schools also will point you to and help you apply to Fulbrights and other top opportunities.
A real “go getter” can make his or her own way to the best that is available at a large state school. A less assertive kid may not have the same opportunities. At LACs, you get more built-in personalized attention, so they try to link all kids up with opportunities. At the LAC I attended, my professors and advisor kept suggesting opportunities to me that otherwise I never would have known existed.
Top LACs have endless money. If you are poor, they will pay your flights, including for a visit, all your expenses including books, etc. State schools sound like they should be cheaper, but for the truly needy, the top LAC will be less expensive. For example, my state school will give free tuition to many students, but, for many students, there is still room and board to pay. The LAC covers everything for the needy. And the resources for all students at top privates are breathtaking- the best equipment, facilities, etc.
Conversely, if you are in the $200,000-$250,000 range, where you might be full pay or small loan at a top private, your state school’s tuition will be less expensive.
So… it depends on your personality, the particular schools’ opportunities and student bodies, and your preferences. Neither is “better” per se. It is what is the best match.
Good luck! Congratulations on having two choices you find enticing!
I worry about the weed-out mentality that is often prevalent at state schools. It’s a serious problem for premed, where high GPA is essential. Some LACs are also known for grade deflation, but those are the exceptions.
Pre-med is generally a weed-out process.
My daughter might be interested in a (non-engineering) science major and, for us, Virginia Tech is a popular in-state option. However, we heard, from someone who’s a freshman neuroscience major this year, about the introductory calculus classes being mostly on-line/self-taught (we pay money for this?) and that was a complete turn off. So, we are looking at smaller schools first and maybe a big, R1 research university for grad school.
@Muad_dib The Math Emporium at Virginia Tech has been around for years and is actually a model for other programs. One of my son’s went to Virginia Tech and had no issue with it. I had trouble with the link, but there is an article from the Washington Post from 2012 that explains it. There is also other info about it online. Good luck to your daughter with her college search!
@TheGreyKing: “the top LACs dominate the lists of undergraduate origins of PhDs”
The LACs dominate the percapita_ PhD lists.
Look at total numbers and they are still dominated by top private and public unis:
https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf13323/
PSU (which isn’t UMich or Cal) had 6 times the number of undergrads who went on to get science/tech PhDs compared to Amherst, for instance.
To the OP: It really depends which state school and which LAC.
For pre-med, a top state school like UMich may actually be a worse option than an average state flagship or an average LAC.
It seems OP is deciding between Rhodes and U Missouri.
I know Rhodes quite well and am one of its biggest fans on these forums (southern LACs in general, really). That said, it’s true that pre-meds should keep costs down for undergrad.
Not an easy decision, for sure. I think a lot depends on how much of a burden that extra $20K per year is for OP and his/her family.
@sevmom : I believe this is the link you were looking for:
It sounds like it works for the students they talked to. Perhaps it’s one of those “don’t knock it til you’ve tried it” ideas.
Yes, that’s the link. Thanks. If a large school isn’t a good fit, then the instate schools like UVa or Virginia Tech would probably not be the best option. My instate Virginia kids wanted a larger school, so UVa and VT worked for them. If they hadn’t gravitated to larger schools, the process may have been more complicated. Good to see both UVa and VT on that list @PurpleTitan . Good luck, @Muad_dib !
If you’re in MO (or even if you’re not), why not Truman St.?
I went to Mizzou for doctoral study. It’s a fine school. I’m also an LAC grad, so if you’re asking me for a straight-up decision, without money being taken into consideration, I’m definitely biased: I would send my child to Rhodes in a heartbeat.
But money is a consideration, and if based on the OP’s previous comment (which another poster thankfully shared) Rhodes will cost 30K per year plus room and board (which sounds pretty much like footing the bill for nearly the entire cost of attendance), that’s a lot of money. If Mizzou will only cost room and board then the decision is easy. Go to Mizzou.
As much of a supporter as I am of LACs, I cannot justify getting into serious debt to attend an LAC. Now, if your family can comfortably afford the cost of Rhodes, that’s a different story. But on the surface of things Mizzou is the better choice.
Mizzou is a fine school. Yes, it has had its much-publicized issues with race, but as the flagship it attracts the state’s brightest students who are either not interested in, or cannot afford, a private school or another OOS public option. I do think that LACs are better choices for those who plan on going on to medical school, law school, or graduate school because the environments are more supportive, but as an earlier poster mentioned, pre-med is difficult no matter where one goes. I said this elsewhere, but the ground is littered with the bones of once hopeful pre-med students.
@Hapworth: Truman St. and MUST actually get a good percentage of the top MO kids who go to MO publics (they boast student bodies with higher test scores than Mizzou, on average).
So I wonder why not Truman St.?
Sure, Truman State is a fine school, but the flagship always gets the lion’s share of the state’s top students. I am not saying that this is the best choice, mind you. Many MO high school students grow up with the aim of attending Mizzou, just as in my home state of IL many of my HS classmates targeted the U of IL, Urbana-Champaign (and I remember one high-achieving girl who was elated at her acceptance at IL, almost as if she had been admitted to Harvard).
This is how it works. A lot of families with college-bound kids are not always the smartest decision-makers. Plus, most people outside of CC are much more familiar with large universities than LACs, even public ones. The perception–albeit a false one–is that Mizzou is obviously better than Truman. This conditioning is strong. I had to overcome it myself when I chose to attend Knox College over the U of IL-UC.
The same thing happens in FL, where I now live. FL has some of the lowest tuition rates in the country. For $6900 (yes, you read that right), one can attend the New College of Florida, which is in every way a typical private LAC except for its price tag. Why isn’t this the hottest (pardon the weather pun) school in FL? The reason is because not every FL resident is aware of it, and also the conditioning that says, “U of FL or FL State” is strong.
If OP is not a Missouri resident, that may explain not looking at Truman State. The OP did get scholarship money from Mizzou, but cast a wide net and also looked at KU, Ole Miss ,etc. So, not clear what the state of residency is, unless I missed that ?