<p>Time for a new thread. My Junior DS just got his class rank, and I was astounded to learn that he is currently 6th out of over 500 kids - and this without going the extra mile, doing extra-credit, laboring over his work etc. DS starts his essays the night before they are due, does the minimum necessary etc. He is sweet, wonderful, laidback and a truly great guy. His PPSAT scores would have put him at NMcommended, and we are waiting to see his PSAT scores. No SAT scores yet. He is taking the 'hardest" coursework and doubling up on Sciences, but no community college, long-distance courses, competions etc. So.... he has only one EC, and it is a recreational sport. Not active in school clubs, no leadership positions, no formal work experience - likes life laidback - poker with the guys, video games, etc. If he fills out a college application, there will be lots and lots and lots of blank space on those ECs, clubs, etc.
I hate to push him to be what he is not, but I worry that this lack will seriously impact his choice of colleges, and SERIOUSLY impact his chance for scholarships and merit aid - (thus limiting him to a big state U). Any feedback or suggestions? Any good colleges that just don't care about EC's? That will grant merit aid without EC's? What would you do?</p>
<p>Anxiousmom:</p>
<p>I gather your son is a junior? There's time to add some ECs, though sports do count as EC. Perhaps pursuing his recreational sport a bit more intensely? Does he baby-sit? What about summer work? That would count.</p>
<p>He does play a sport - but on a rec team, not through the high school this year. And he says he is going to join a language club at school and maybe do UIL science (something like that). Time is running short! And anything he has on his list is piddly compared to the type of stuff we see on lists around here! I just REALLY want to find him an affordable school that will give him a great experience and a lot of faculty contact and guidance - and that is not going to happen at our local flagship state U!</p>
<p>he could always start a HS club in something that interests him. He also gets to be Pres....</p>
<p>The particular venue for his sports is irrelevant as long as he is involved in sports. If he is involved in a science activity, that will be great (and fairly time-consuming!). He does not need dozesn of ECs, just a couple in which he is deeply involved.</p>
<p>Anxiousmom - state U honors colleges can be a great bargain and a great education - many of the ones around here are strictly numbers driven, they couldn't give a fig about ECs. Also LACs outside the top 10-15 could give him some good merit aid, aprticularly if he demonstrates interest and wirtes a good essay. I'm not sure they are so caught up in ECs if a kid is reasonably interesting, and doesn't have a suspension, etc</p>
<p>The biggest problem with his lack of ECs -- job, service, clubs, outside of school research, church, sports -- is that he's missing out on learning about himself, his interests, how to be a good leader and follower.</p>
<p>This problem is even more important than how his lack of ECs will impact his college admissions. There are plenty of colleges that will take him with no ECs. This includes good colleges particularly state universities, which are mainly numbers driven.</p>
<p>Lack of ECs, however, means that he's not learning how to be a good leader, a thoughtful follower, what is academic interests are, what he can contribute to make the world a better place. He's not learning very much about how to entertain himself in a productive way. He's not getting the chance to test his wings in terms of following various interests.</p>
<p>Sure, he can do some of these things in college, but it's a lot harder to learn these things when one starts far behind the curve and when one is so inexperienced with ECs that one doesn't even know what to expect at meetings and doesn't even know how to organize projects, solve the inevitable interpersonal problems, etc.</p>
<p>IMO a big part of the job of being a parent of a h.s. student is helping them explore the world through ECs. Whether or not that helps them get into college is beside the point. Those explorations definitely will help them with Life including long after we parents are gone.</p>
<p>I will admit that I did not have to get my kids to participate in ECs and actually they didn't have enough hours to do all that they wanted to do and had major schedule conflicts. So, I admit to not being able to give first hand tried and trued advice on this issue. </p>
<p>I don't think you can make a kid do a specific EC because the interest needs to come from within. What you could do in this sort of situation, is talk about your expectation that he do SOMETHING with his time outside of class, something worthwhile. How does he spend his summers? What interests does he have and what does he wish to pursue? He could get a part time job....that teaches reponsibility and colleges also value kids who have worked. He could start a community service organization to do with something he cares deeply about. He can take his sport and coach/teach kids perhaps (I'd have to hear the sport). He can get some kind of internship or research in an area of interest. He can take up a new skill that interests him like guitar, rock climbing, etc. He can start some activity at his school....I know a boy who started a Barbeque Club and was able to write about that on his college applications. Is there some sort of project he would like to work on related to his interests? Can he give lessons to kids related to a skill he has? I would not care so much about the WHAT but more that he got engaged in something worthwhile after school and weekends and in summers....not to impress colleges so much but to be more active and engaged in pursuits related to his interests. If i knew his interests, I could give more suggestions. He would have to arrive at what he wanted to do but your expectation would be that he get involved in something for the next two years in a significant capacity but it has to be something that interests him that he truly would like to do. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>why not make sure he's involved in something relevant this summer? You can even get two programs in during a summer --that would probably be extremely helpful.</p>
<p>Great suggestions...
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Lack of ECs, however, means that he's not learning how to be a good leader, a thoughtful follower, what is academic interests are, what he can contribute to make the world a better place. He's not learning very much about how to entertain himself in a productive way.
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I'm not sure I agree with this, though. He is a very thoughtful follower, but doesn't choose to follow the crowds if he doesn't believe in what they are doing. He knows his academic interests, but, quite frankly, he is not passionate about them. He really enjoys his rec sport, and is going to help his coach with kids from an innercity area learn how to play. Summer programs he is not interested in - but he'll probably get a job this summer. And I'll encourage the volunteer work - because it's true that the boy needs to be giving back to the community!</p>
<p>anxiousmom, I know that colleges don't view poker with the guys and video games as an EC, but I don't agree that these experiences mean he lacks leadership or is unable to entertain himself. The ability to interact socially with people from a variety of backgrounds will serve him well throughout his life -- it's not all about being President etc. He sounds like he gets along well with his peer group -- good interpersonal intelligence ala Howard Gardner.</p>
<p>I do have one suggestion -- since he likes games, can you persuade him to formalize his interest? I'm thinking in terms of a Boys and Girls Club or YMCA program -- maybe work with the innercity kids you mentioned. He could start a poker club at school, perhaps.</p>
<p>Finally, you should probably look at the stats-driven schools, but include some that may be interested in quirky kids. I also wonder if it wouldn't be a refreshing change for adcoms to read an essay from a kid who says he just likes to have fun, sometimes. Especially if it's from a strong academic candidate. How many driven, ambitious kids do we need? (and I say this as the mom of kids who are involved in a variety of ECs) Could he write a column in the school newspaper? Just some random thoughts -- I'm supposed to be working on something else, so I haven't organized this remark very well!</p>
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<blockquote> <p>He really enjoys his rec sport, and is going to help his coach with kids from an innercity area learn how to play. <<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Perfect--this is showing passion in your EC and is community work too.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>And I'll encourage the volunteer work - because it's true that the boy needs to be giving back to the community!<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>Community service is an important component in many local, one-time scholarships that he can apply for when he's a senior.</p>
<p>I think that it is hard to get into an HYP type of college without showing real passion for SOMETHING. But there are many fish in the sea when it comes to colleges--and I doubt that his laid-back-ness, if it continues, will curtail his list of possibilities much.</p>
<p>I know someone who is currently a freshman at Cornell who had no EC's and the only thing he did was a math class the summer between junior and senior year at a nearby University. I've read that students that suddenly start doing EC's junior year look like they're just padding their resume. I wouldn't worry about it.</p>
<p>My son was sick in high school and so wound up doing 2 EC's summer of his junior year, including an internship and a two week math course at UMICH. Other than this he had two trimesters of basketball. Only 3 APs (more were available.) This was IT. He got into Brown --this is a white Jewish kid from the burbs. He was fully qualified. Sometimes it is quality, and the LETTERS you get from what you do do. A letter from a UMICH prof saying you are brilliant (even if she worked with you for just two weeks) may be as good as 4 years of math Olympiad --it's a big old lottery so you might as well play. Do something summer of junior year --if he does something good, and if he manages to get good references as a result, it's not too late for him to dramatically improve his admissions outcome.</p>
<p>We faced a similar problem with S #2, but our concern was more that he was not spending his time productively. As far as colleges, his academic record (and your son's as well) will get him into many very fine colleges, maybe not the very top, but that's ok too - less pressure. I have always told him better grades, better test scores and more ECs will just give him more options.</p>
<p>Anyway, here is what we did. First, got very very lucky last summer - he got a fulltime job as a camp counseler at a local daycamp. (Looks good on the app, right? was also a great experience). I absolutely insisted that he participate in a fall sport. Again, not just for college apps, but for his physical and mental health. He did not want to play football (after 2 years of playing) so he ran cross country, which has been fantastic. He is not a star, but actually enjoys running. He also tutors one day a week. 1 day is a very small time commitment but it has been a very rewarding program. </p>
<p>I guess my philosophy is that parental pressure to participate in ECs is ok as long as it is for the right reasons and not just resume padding.</p>
<p>"I'm not sure I agree with this, though. He is a very thoughtful follower, but doesn't choose to follow the crowds if he doesn't believe in what they are doing. He knows his academic interests, but, quite frankly, he is not passionate about them. He really enjoys his rec sport, and is going to help his coach with kids from an innercity area learn how to play."</p>
<p>When I posted before, I didn't notice that he has an EC, a recreational sport. He doesn't need many ECs to develop his leadership, followership skills and to discern his avocational and vocational interests. One solid EC -- which is what he's doing -- can be enough.</p>
<p>It's also nice that he's planning on extending that interest by getting coaching experience, which will teach him even more about what makes him happy, what he can offer the world, and what kinds of things he might enjoy doing as a career.</p>
<p>If he is not a hard-charger type, he will probably aim towads less hard-charging schools which won't have a problem with the level of ECs he already has. </p>
<p>BTW I think work for $ is one of the best ECs you can have.</p>
<p>I take issue with the posters who are bemoaning your son's lack of EC's. My son was also EC-averse during high school, unless you can count a thousand hours playing "Grand Theft Auto" as an EC. He did have about 200 community service hours, but his school required community service hours to graduate.</p>
<p>My son has spent the past two years working at the most people-oriented jobs I can imagine. He does volunteer recruitment & training and fundraising for nonprofit agencies. He loves his work. I would never have thought that my lazy high school kid would grow up to be the young man he is.</p>
<p>Bottom line: he didn't "miss out" on learning about himself or gaining social skills -- he just did it in his own time and in his own way. The going-off-to-college part was a big part of the emotional growth. </p>
<p>Oh, and he was accepted at Reed, Macalester, and a number of other similar LAC's, as well as UC Berkeley. I don't think the lack of EC's is much of a problem for a kid with strong grades and test scores if you aren't aiming for the super-elite -- and if you are the parent of a laid-back kid, you have to ask yourself whether he really would be happy in a college filled with hyperactive overachievers. </p>
<p>I would say, be happy that your son is happy and doing well in school. If you think there are activities he would be interested in and enjoy, by all means mention them... but please don't push. </p>
<p>There are plenty of colleges that will give merit aid based on grades/test scores alone -- you just have to aim for the colleges where those scores are outstanding for the applicant pool. Also... when it comes time to apply to colleges, it is amazing how much the kids can come up with to fill in those "EC" lines on the forms. Lots of school clubs that seem to exist in name only.</p>
<p>Finally: if your son is driving you nuts sitting at home, and you really don't like the idea of him goofing off so much, encourage him to get a paying job. That will do a lot more in terms of the maturity/social skills/responsibility part than EC's; it will also help with finances; and the ad coms will take note of employment listed and view that just as favorably as most EC's.</p>
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My son was also EC-averse during high school, unless you can count a thousand hours playing "Grand Theft Auto" as an EC.
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LOL :) It's great to hear that others have had this situation, and good outcomes have occured. Yes, DS is definitely not aiming for a hard-charging, high-stress school, and he certainly wouldn't fit in there. He's a really nice guy who has the OPPOSITE of nervous energy and who wants to take life at his own pace. Not lazy, just relaxed. He enjoys crossword puzzles, those weird math puzzles (suduko? or something like that?), and he is happy to help out around home. (Is taking out the trash considered community service?) Again, thanks for everyone's feedback and positive support. I will do a little more encouraging on the EC front, and then chill out about the rest.</p>
<p>Its a fine line
My oldest had ecs ( many many hours of volunteer service)- but her private prep school also offered many opportunities that she was missing out on- extra trips- sports- etc
It wasn't because I thought she needed more stuff in her resume- but a desire to see her at least try some of the other offerings
So junior year she went on her first airplane ride- to costa rica- with kids from her school, Senior year she joined the vocal ensemble and the track team- I don't know if she put them on her application- but I was happy she was trying new things</p>