LACs strong in mathematics

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm a junior really just starting on my College Quest here. I love, love math, but I'm not interested in science or engineering, and I want to keep my humanities options open [philosophy, writing, etc.] Any suggestions for good, small/medium LACs in the Northeast [though I might look at schools on the west coast too]? </p>

<p>and for the record, I have strong grades and a 231 on the PSATs [haven't taken the SATs yet], will most likely have good recs/essay, but somewhat weak ECs...but you can just respond to the title, no need to find a college just for me. Thanks! :)</p>

2

<p>Harvey Mudd in Claremont, California, even though I'm not sure how good their humanities are</p>

3

<p>Harvey Mudd if you're sure about math & Pomona if you're not.</p>

4

<p>St. Olaf's is extraordinarily strong. But not coastal. Williams has a very strong reputation</p>

5

<p>Here are a few LACs listed specifically for their math programs in "Rugg's Recommendations on the Colleges":</p>

<p>Northeast: Bates, Bowdoin, Colgate, Holy Cross</p>

<p>Midwest: St. Olaf, Oberlin, Carlton</p>

<p>West: Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, Occidental, Pomona, Reed, Whitman, Willamette</p>

6

<p>thanks for the replies! I forgot to mention that I've been looking at Swarthmore; is that good for math?</p>

7

<p>I feel whenever this question is asked that Williams is always mentioned. I don't know if that is a continual perpetuation of a myth or if it is somehow justified based on something.</p>

8

<p>Not in particular, but the classes are generally small and the professors accessible. I'm a math major and I'm doing fine in math. What exactly are you looking for in the math program? I mean, how do you define a good math program? Because the math courses you take at Swarthmore will be the same as the courses you'll take at Bates or Williams or Carleton.</p>

9

<p>Oberlin's math department is indeed excellent, & quite challenging. But, like several other nominees above, it is not in the Northeast or the west coast; it is near Cleveland.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
I feel whenever this question is asked that Williams is always mentioned. I don't know if that is a continual perpetuation of a myth or if it is somehow justified based on something.

[/quote]

I think there are two factors. First, I suspect that Williams probably does have significantly more math majors, and a larger math dept., than most comparable LACs.</p>

<p>Second, for whatever reason, the Williams math department has been extremely successful at racking up Haimo</a> Awards. This a well-known award issued annually by the Mathematical Association of America to "honor college or university teachers who have been widely recognized as extraordinarily successful and whose teaching effectiveness has been shown to have had influence beyond their own institutions."</p>

<p>Four Williams math profs have been so honored since the award was established in 1993. All four are currently still with the dept. For comparison, the entire Ivy League has only three. Obviously the Ivies have great mathematicians, but undergraduate math teaching may not be their number one priority.</p>

11

<p>I noticed on Corbett's link about the Haimo awards that Santa Clara University has 3.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
First, I suspect that Williams probably does have significantly more math majors, and a larger math dept., than most comparable LACs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Percentage of math degrees among all bachelor's degrees conferred during 2006-2007 academic year. Data from 2007-08 Common Data Set, computer science/IT majors not included:</p>

<p>0.9 % Middlebury
1.0 % Bowdoin
3.0 % Amherst
4.7 % Pomona
6.4 % Swarthmore
7.2 % Williams</p>

<p>Couldn't find the 06-07 CDS for St. Olaf, but their current (08-09) CDS says 7 % math degrees, which would be consistent with their reputation as a "math LAC".</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
I noticed on Corbett's link about the Haimo awards that Santa Clara University has 3.

[/quote]
SCU is too big to qualify as a LAC, but it is noted for its strength in mathematics and computer science, which may have something to do with its location in Silicon Valley.</p>

14

<p>Haimo awards sorted by number and school:</p>

<p>Colin Adams, Williams College (4)
Edward B. Burger, Williams College
Thomas Garrity, Williams College
Frank Morgan, Williams College</p>

<p>Carl C. Cowen, Purdue University (3)
David S. Moore, Purdue University
Justin J. Price, Purdue University</p>

<p>Gerald L. Alexanderson, Santa Clara University
Paul R. Halmos, Santa Clara University
Leonard F. Klosinki, Santa Clara University</p>

<p>Ranjan Roy, Beloit College (2)
Philip D. Straffin, Jr., Beloit College</p>

<p>Dennis DeTurck, University of Pennsylvania
Herbert S. Wilf, University of Pennsylvania</p>

<p>Gary W. Towsley, State University of New York-Geneseo
Olympia Nicodemi, State University of New York-Geneseo</p>

<p>Robert V. Hogg, University of Iowa
Keith Stroyan, University of Iowa</p>

<p>Anne Hudson, Armstrong State College (1)
V. Frederick Rickey, Bowling Green State University
Robert L. Devaney, Boston University
Thomas F. Banchoff, Brown University
Rhonda Hughes, Bryn Mawr College
Joel V. Brawley, Clemson University
Annalisa Crannell, Franklin and Marshall
Arthur T. Benjamin, Harvey Mudd College
Jacqueline Dewar, Loyola Marymount University
Joan P. Hutchinson, Macalester College
Gilbert Strang, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Doris W. Schattschneider, Moravian College
Robert W. Case, Northeastern University
Jennifer Quinn, Occidental College
Lisa Mantini, Oklahoma State University
Judith V. Grabiner, Pitzer College
T. Christine Stevens, Saint Louis University
Alan C. Tucker, State University of New York-Stony Brook
Rhonda Hatcher, Texas Christian University
Andrew Chiang-Fung Liu, University of Alberta
Deborah Hughes-Hallett, University of Arizona
Evelyn Silvia, University of California-Davis
Edward M. Landesman, University of California-Santa Cruz
Paul J. Sally, Jr., University of Chicago
Aparna Higgins, University of Dayton
Carl Pomerance, University of Georgia
Joseph A. Gallian, University of Minnesota-Duluth
Judy Leavitt Walker, University of Nebraska
Paul Andrew Zeitz, University of San Francisco
Michael Starbird, University of Texas
Kenneth I. Gross, University of Vermont
James Morrow, University of Washington
Donald S. Passman, University of Wisconsin, Madison
Edward Spitznagel, Jr., Washington University</p>

15

<p>Wesleyan has a Math program leading all the way to the doctoral level. I'm told it leans heavily toward Topology, the mathematics of surfaces (think, Mobius strip and other conundra), but that attempts have been made to add more applied math courses (e.g., computer science is a big part of the Math Dept., too.)</p>

16

<p>One thing you might want to look at is what papers have been written by a college's math students in the past few years. A good LAC will have some sort of capstone senior project or senior thesis that many or all students participate in, esp. in the sciences. You should be able to find a list of the titles, and maybe even abstracts, for ALL such work, and also titles of work that actually got published in academic journals. This will give you an idea of the rigor and types of projects students are doing. If a school doesn't have a complete list on their website, but only highlights the work of a couple of "stars," then probe hard. If you're not sure you're finding such a list, then ask Admissions, and also ask the chair of the math department.</p>

17

<p>Fwiw, at the Claremont Colleges, the upper division mathematics curriculum is a cooperative program of Claremont McKenna College, Harvey Mudd College, Pomona College, and Claremont Graduate University.</p>

<p>As usual, when evaluating different colleges, one should not fall in the trap of paying much attention to reputation since it is almost always based on hearsay and outdated information. Taking the time to MEASURE the size, resources, and dedication of the faculty, and most importantly the scope and depth of the curriculum represents a very good investment. </p>

<p>This might eliminate some very negative surprises.</p>

18

<p>xiggi, it's easy enough to measure the size of the faculty (reflecting the variety of courses offered?), but how do we measure their resources (and what kinds of resources do we look for?) and dedication (reflecting their quality?)?</p>

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<p>For one thing, look at the registrar's list of courses actually being taught by that department in a particular semester. (not listings in the course catalog, but courses actually being given). Then simply count the number of faculty members in the department.</p>

<p>If there are few professors, and they offer few courses, a department cannot be considered "good". You cannot learn very much where not very much is being taught. Where there are few upperclass electives offered, the chances that they will not have offerings in some sub-area that you eventually find yourself interested in rises. And where they only offer certain courses every other semester, or every other year, the chance that you might not ever be able to take a particular course due to scheduling conflicts rises.</p>

<p>The above is true, even if historically every student in that department was found to have gone on subsequently to get a PhD. A student can be encouraged to do research, yet be poorly served in terms of the breadth and depth of offerings provided to him/ her in the discipline. A few schools with high Phd %s have thesis requirements for their degrees, or for departmental honors which are widely encouraged there. Such research experience is obviously good training for graduate work, and may help predispose some of their students to go on in this direction. This may be a good thing, but it doesn't mean those future PhDs found that their available palate of undergrad course offerings was optimal for their interests.</p>

<p>And on that topic, yes, you should check on opportunities for undergrad research, if your interest may run in that direction. You should make sure this choice is available to you. Recognize that it will eat in to your time to explore other interests. This may be undesirable to some people. If you may be one of those people, check that your school does not have a mandatory undergraduate thesis requirement; a few schools do.</p>

<p>And if you do want to do research, there are probably huge differences in what you can possibly do research in at various schools. In subareas where there are no professors there can't be much opportunity for high-level research.</p>

<p>Mind you, I'm not saying that bigger department necessarily equals better. There could simply be more students in that department as well. But size does play a role to an extent, in dictating breadth of offerings, and this can, in fact, be a highly relevant factor worthy of consideration.</p>

20

<p>Harvey Mudd has a core curriculum that you probably would not like if you want to focus on math and not science or engineering. The first two years have requirements in computer science, physics, biology, chemistry, engineering, and math - and also humanities classes as well.</p>