Language Requirements

Graduate School
1

<p>Hello,</p>

<p>Recently I've been looking broadly at Graduate programs, trying to garner any information on required undergraduate programs of study that would be beneficial in Grad School. </p>

<p>One, red flag that was quickly raised had to do with language requirements. It looks like a reasonable knowledge of 2 modern or ancient languages is required to graduate. </p>

<p>How did you all negotiate this requirement? Did you learn two languages in college? Did you do summer courses? Did you take classes during graduate work?</p>

2

<p>Its not as scary as it looks. The modern languages are "reading knowledge" - many schools have a summer intensive program that will fulfill the requirement or prepare you for the test (which is almost always "with dictionary").</p>

<p>I'm a Classics major at Penn right now with another year to go. At graduation I'll have:</p>

<p>8 semesters of Latin
4 semesters of Greek</p>

<p>I'm told that is a reasonable level of prep. for Classical Archaeology. Someone going into the Phil. side might want to have more Greek and some German.</p>

<p>As soon as I know where I'm going to grad school (assuming I get in of course), I'll enroll in their summer "German for Graduate Reading Knowledge" or equivalent so I'll have that right away. If summer isn't too hectic, I'll also start work on whatever I haven't read in their Latin reading list.</p>

<p>The more you can cram in the better as language preparation is one of the things that tends to hold people like us back in grad school.</p>

3

<p>Having relevant languages in one's field of study is sometimes a requirement (or at the very least, quite desirable) for graduate admissions. </p>

<p>I don't know where you got the "two modern or ancient" idea. It's about relevance to one's field.</p>

<p>However, in most graduate programs in the humanities and social sciences, one will be required to demonstrate the ability to read scholarly materials in both French and German. So it's a good idea to be reasonably competent in at least one of these when one applies to grad school. </p>

<p>Some (NOT ALL) top grad schools in some (NOT ALL) fields will not even look at candidates who don't have a background in field-appropriate languages, and ONE of either French or German.</p>

4

<p>Professor X,</p>

<p>I've noticed that most grad schools have this requirement for Philosophy programs. Is the foreign language requirement for Philosophy PhD programs taken very seriously?</p>

5

<p>badman89, </p>

<p>In my experience, yes. Lately, philosophy (and other humanities and social science PhD programs) have had such a glut of well-qualified candidates that if an applicant has at least French or German, as well as any other languages relevant for their intended field of specialization, they will have a much better chance at admission.</p>

<p>In other words, f you want to do Aristotelian philosophy, or the pre-Socratics, you'd better have Greek as well as either French or German.</p>

6

<p>Thank you for the answers. I'm not suggesting a typical grad school makes a distinction between ancient and contemporary languages, Harvard being indicative of what I saw on websites:</p>

<p>
[quote]
A reading knowledge of two languages is required. Students will be expected to show proficiency in either two ancient languages, or two modern languages, or one ancient and one modern language. (Normally, Latin, Greek, French, German, Spanish, and Italian are the accepted languages. Other languages may be acceptable if deemed relevant and appropriate to the student's program of study.)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My predicament is I find my self enrolled in a four year program of study that not only doesn't mandate language study but doesn't allow space for it. I'd have to do any substantive language work over the summer, something I'd like to plan for. </p>

<p>If I were to work on some German/Spanish/Latin now could I muster up enough proficiency if I put in 3 or so summers of diligent work?</p>

<p>On a somewhat related tangent, if I was interested in taking a 'gap year', looking specifically at the Peace Corps, Teach America, volunteer work, or freelance work, would I still be on a viable road towards a grad school degree?</p>

<p>I reason I would be able to learn a language, read more widely and make sure of my investment to getting a terminal graduate degree. </p>

<p>What do you think of that approach? </p>

<p>Thankyou!</p>

7

<p>Also on a related note, could anyone work to quell a fear I've been having about academia? </p>

<p>I'm lucky to go to a school that puts me in close contact with professors, amazing, eloquent, witty, and intelligent people. To some extent I emulate and idolize them. But as I sit across the table from them, even as a first year, I do worry that I might never get to be them. That I'm not smart enough, not nearly as dedicated, and that I could only ever aspire to half their knowledge and nuisance. </p>

<p>I know I'm a first year. I do well in my courses, I've been praised and criticized. And I do consider my self passionately invested in the work that I love to do in English and History.</p>

<p>Still I worry, anybody have any suggestions that might allay these fears?</p>

8

<p>Is that from Harvard's Graduate English Program?</p>

<p>Anyway, you have to distinguish between "requirements for admission" and "requirements for graduation". If that's the page you're looking at, those are graduation requirements. So... you want to go check out the admisson reqs before you freak out completely.</p>

<p>That said... it seems a little strange that you're in a program that doesn't have space for a language. Don't you have any electives? And if that is indeed the case, and you want to do graduate study in a field that requires some language proficiency, you might want to reconsider your undergrad program. Or, as you suggest, use a summer or two to get the material in (Here at Penn (and other places) you can actually do two full years of language work over a single summer - it's intense!).</p>

<p>Now... as to professors... remember that even the most junior PhD is at least 8 years of school ahead of you. If you're just wrapping up your freshman year think back to yourself in the 5th grade! The difference isn't really quite that great but you really have a lot ahead of you in the next three years (and remember that college runs at about twice the speed of HS). </p>

<p>Assuming you have the drive and desire (and a little talent) you can become one of them. Beyond your classwork, start reading academic journals that interest you or at least the ones your favorite professors have published in. Then find the space to get in at least one new language. German is pretty much the all-purpose modern language but if you have some specific area of interest you might want something else. (I.e. if I was really interested in drama, I'd probably want to learn Greek.)</p>

<p>Finally... whatever criticism you get is MUCH more valuable than any praise - it tells you where the boundries are and how to meet the expectations of your academic peers - who all too soon will be the professors you're studying with now.</p>

9

<p>

Thanks for the information, but it seems to be quite an unfair requirement for a candidate who is not particularly interested in studying that field. For example, I am mainly interested in logic and the philosophy of science but I am still required to show proficiency in French/German.</p>

<p>The only reason I'm complaining is that it is going to eat up some of my undergrad courses which I could otherwise put to better (read: more interesting) use.</p>

10

<p>The requirement is there is because as a graduate student, you'll be doing research in the field. And the fact is that in Philosophy (not to mention my field, Classical Archaeology) a LOT of important work has been (and is being) done in languages other than English. Oddly enough, those languages are German and French!</p>

<p>So you MUST have a command of those languages. </p>

<p>But it shouldn't take up too much of your "better use" time - there are quite a number of universities that offer summer "do it yourself" courses. Wisconsin's German course has been recommended here a number of times and your school may offer something as well. Remember, it is <em>READING KNOWLEDGE</em> the grad programs are after, not fluent speaking.</p>

<p>Be glad you're not going into Egyptology - then you'd be looking at something like 6 or 7 languages!</p>

11

<p>I strongly dispute "unfair." William C is precisely right. Much of the most critical scholarship in the humanities is written in French and German. For Logic and for Philosophy of Science, German is absolutely essential.</p>

<p>In my own scholarly work, I read primary sources in Latin and French and secondary sources in French on a daily basis. (German is needed less frequently in my particular subfield, but still often enough to require reading knowledge. I recently published an article in a German journal, and all of my correspondence with the publisher was in German, and although they kindly translated my article from the original English to German, I still had to proofread and line edit their German translation.)</p>

12

<p>does this mean one has to start learning these languages in college? can they start in graduate school?</p>

13

<p>john_kingston,</p>

<p>As I wrote above:</p>

<p>"Having relevant languages in one's field of study is sometimes a requirement (or at the very least, quite desirable) for graduate admissions."</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
Be glad you're not going into Egyptology - then you'd be looking at something like 6 or 7 languages!

[/quote]

Heh. So true, so true. :(</p>

<p>Rather than start a related thread, does anyone know a good book for self-studying French?</p>

15

<p>The two standard texts are:</p>

<p>Karl Sandberg, French for Reading, Prentice-Hall</p>

<p>Joseph Palmieri, French for Reading Knowledge, Higby Publishing</p>

<p>The Sandberg is the one I recommend to my students, and the one used in grad-level courses offered by at least five universities with which I am familiar.</p>

16

<p>Professor X, could you please speak towards my fears about ability and graduate school? Is it normal to feel academically inadequate or undeveloped? How can an undergraduate manage to bridge the gap in between the seminar table? Any ideas?</p>

17

<p>21Questions,</p>

<p>Today was graduation day at my university, which always puts me in a reflective mood. So please pardon me if my answer to your question is a bit more, well, reflective, than you expected or desired.</p>

<p>It is absolutely normal to feel the way you do. As an undergraduate, you are only able to skim the surface of many of your academic interests. But an undergraduate education is <em>supposed</em> to have both breadth and depth -- breadth in terms of exposure to many disciplines, and their ways of approaching problems, and depth in terms of beginning to learn increasingly more about ways problems are articulated and approached in a specific discipline (your major). </p>

<p>Graduate school is about beginning to specialize, to MASTER a body of knowledge in a particular area of study, and to begin to develop familiarity and then facility with various theories and methods in that specific field. </p>

<p>One's interest can become so specific and deep that it brings one to embark upon DOCTORAL level study, in which one is expected (at least in the humanities and social sciences) to not only demonstrate mastery of the discipline in a COMPREHENSIVE way (qualifying exams), but also to develop and define one's own original contribution to a subfield of that discipline.</p>

<p>Because a career in academia follows this trajectory, one is <em>always</em> discovering how much more there is to learn. It is often said that the more you learn, the more you realize how much you do not know. So if you are feeling "inadequate and undeveloped," it is because, well, you are. And you always will be. In a sense.</p>

<p>One's job as a graduate student is to <em>begin</em> to plumb the depths of one's specialization. Although it culminates in a dissertation, in which one demonstrates how much one knows within (and how one has decided to contribute to) a particular subfield of specialization, after the dissertation, exploration never stops. Realizations keep surfacing that one knows but little about another, even closely related, area. </p>

<p>The minute these realizations of your lack of knowledge stop, you are finished as a scholar. The minute you think you've mastered everything is the minute you've lost perspective entirely. The very condition of being a scholar is a consciousness of how much you've yet to learn. Your job as a graduate student is to learn who can teach you some of this. Your job as a graduate student is to learn how much you can learn even from those you think <em>cannot</em> teach you. The constant lesson is humility. The constant struggle is awareness that you are <em>still learning</em>, and have chosen this way of life. </p>

<p>Every single one of your professors, even the Nobel or Pulitzer or Bancroft or Whatever prizewinners, knows that every single contribution he or she makes will inevitably be questioned, deconstructed, and hopefully, improved upon. </p>

<p>There is no gap to be bridged. Just a continuum to travel upon, humbly. Should you be afraid? Yes, very. Should you let this fear stop you? Never.</p>

18

<p>Professor X, I’m sorry for the late reply, for some reason your post didn’t register for me on the recent post column of the thread. I want to be especially diligent in offering thanks as it is posters like you that make this board a valuable resource and I feel like you should have at least a little praise to acknowledge your advice and well reasoned answers. </p>

<p>Your right, I should not presume to command any sort of special mastery of a subject or any sort of talent or inclination. Instead I should focus on what’s left to learn, what materials left to be read, what advances there are to be made and what I can contribute, no matter how minor, to a field I love. </p>

<p>I suppose that’s the thing I have going for me. I might not break the bank in IQ points or in natural ability. But I have the passion side down and I can translate that in to dedication. </p>

<p>I’m really looking forward to working and spending time with the professors that have done it before. </p>

<p>Anyway, thanks, I needed that encouragement.</p>

19

<p>21Questions,</p>

<p>Oh dear. I do hope that my post did not come off as bad as all that! I was obviously a bit too ruminative, and I seem to have completely missed articulating what I wished.</p>

<p>Your passion for your field will indeed sustain you. And talent and inclination, as well as deep dedication, are <em>surely</em> there, or else your passion would wane, and pass, and you'd move on to something else.</p>

<p>I had merely hoped to convey that feeling inadequate is NORMAL. We all feel that way, more often than students suspect. I just don't want you to feel like you are LESS than your professors. We're all in the same boat, rowing toward the same destinations. And professors actually hope that our students will outstrip us someday. That's our greatest reward. </p>

<p>Well, I do hope this clarifies my intention a bit, even though my ruminations clearly missed the mark. My apologies.</p>

20

<p>when D decided to change her focus as an undergrad from music performance to musicology,with the goal of attending Grad School,she started on German (though she had years of HS Italian).She finished the first two years.Now as a PhD student (just finished 2nd year) she has completed the German with a summer intensive class (last summer) and will finish the next req,French, with a longer,more intensive summer course this summer (called something along the lines of French translation for Graduate students).Her two language reqs will then be completed.Because she is supported by a fellowship with her tuition costs paid,the summer sessions have been free.
As far as feeling inadequate in comparision to professors,Professor X has laid out the academic path eloquently.D has come a long way in just the two years.She TA'd for the first time this past year (in her dept they do not TA in the first year).At first she was petrified,couldn't imagine keeping a class engaged for a whole period,.She had a lovely,mentoring type professor to work for the first semester,but not the second! Baptism by fire it seemed.But she got wonderful feedback from the students and now enjoys the classroom teaching part of the "job".
Shes on the road to honing in on a dissertation topic and is very excited.Its a wonderful,apprentice type process.She has grown tremendously and loves the academic life.</p>