<p>New poster here. I'm not sure where this belongs, but since I'm a parent, I'm putting it here.</p>
<p>Does anybody know how colleges look at language SAT II's, D has had three years of HS Spanish and done quite well, but she's clearly not competitive with a native speaker, which is who her Spanish teacher says tends to take this test. Spanish doesn't seem to be nearly as skewed in this regard as the Asian languages in terms of percentiles but still...</p>
<p>We're kind of stuck which to take. She's signed up for Literature, which she's feeling OK about. She's taking AP Euro history now but doesn't feel she knows enough World history to feel comfortable with that. Based on interest/ability she's nixed both math and science.</p>
<p>US History is a favorite one for kids to take after they have taken the class. My D’s college looked at language SAT 2s to see if a student could forego the language requirement in order to graduate. Any score over 600 would get you out of taking a language. Since it is hard (but not impossible) for a non-speaker to get a high score, I don’t know if I would want one of my college app SAT scores to be a language one.</p>
<p>She should try the practice test, and see how she scores.
Colleges that require 2 SAT IIs will look at 2 highest SAT II scores submitted. So for most non-native speakers Lang SAT II is not the best choice.
On the other hand, many colleges (including very top ones, like Stanford) will count a relatively low SAT II score (it was 610-650 for Stanford a few years ago, depending on the language) to fulfill their FL requirement. So it can be worth checking, and taking the test even after you are accepted.</p>
<p>U.S. History is a favorite for students who have taken the AP class – but not necessarily for those who have taken their high school’s non-AP U.S. history course, which may have a curriculum that isn’t a good match for the test.</p>
<p>My daughter is a strong language student (4th yr. Honors Spanish, taking AP next yr) and has decided not to take the Spanish SAT II. She said she heard it’s hard for non-native speakers to score high.</p>
<p>She also takes Japanese (3rd year)…she said there’s a better curve, but she’s not taking it (the Japanese SAT II) either.</p>
<p>My D took the Latin SAT 2. She’d already taken SAT 2s in other subjects, so she really just took the Latin test to “validate” her language studies (she was a homeschooler). Her Latin SAT 2 score was the lowest of her subject test scores, but good enough, as ellemenope and nngmm said, to fulfill the foreign language requirements for her BA.</p>
<p>It’s a shame there aren’t more SAT subject test options in the humanities aside from world and us history and lit. If your D is absolutely against taking a math test (my D is no fan of math, but in her case the college she applied to required that one of the subject tests be in math), I think it might be worth looking at US History. If she’s had a course, working though one of the review/prep books may set her up fairly well for that. World history is so broad, and since your D hasn’t had a world history course, it would probably not be an optimal choice.</p>
<p>Marian, my D took US History and scored a 790 and she just read a textbook and then worked her way through a good review/prep book. I wouldn’t discourage someone just because they didn’t take an APUSH class. If the OP’s D needs one more test, US History may be her best option if foreign lang, math, and science are truly off the table. It’s at least worth looking at a practice test. Some subjects just come more easily to certain students.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the advice. She took the on-line questions in the College Board site, and not surprisingly struggled with the vocab. It did not frazzle her to the extent the math sample questions did, however.</p>
<p>Her US history class was 10th grade and definitely not at the level to prepare her to do well on the test. She’s really enjoying AP Euro however, so perhaps another option is to try to study for World History. Someone told me it’s fairly Eurocentric. </p>
<p>Her GC recommended taking two SATs in June and then retaking in the fall if needed. Realistically, I don’t think she can prep adequately before June. She’s taking pre-caculus now and doing OK, but if her math and her Spanish scores will be equally average, I suppose we should just go with the one she feels more comfortable with.</p>
<p>I know you keep hearing the same thing, but your D should take a look at a practice test for world history. Not the few online questions, but a real sample test. The CollegeBoard publishes them in large blue books that say something like “Real SAT Subject Tests” in the title. She should try to take a practice test all the way through. Especially with world history, because the scope is very broad. It may be slightly eurocentric, but there’s also quite a few questions about ancient history, and some covering pre-history, asia, pacific islands, latin and native americas, and africa. The curve is pretty generous on world history, but the average score is quite low compared to the other subject tests.</p>
<p>(The curve references how many you can get wrong and still get a decent score. For example, the curve on math1 is brutal and you have to miss very, very few to get a strong score. On math2 it’s more generous so, although there are some questions on more advanced math than on the math1 test, you can miss more of them and still get a high score. For world history the curve is pretty generous, but still the test is challenging enough that the average scores are quite low even with that generous curve.)</p>
<p>There are two kinds of SAT II foreign language exams: the language test (offered several times during the year like other SAT IIs) and the listening test (offered only in November.)</p>
<p>If your daughter has strong reading and writing skills in Spanish she would do well on the test offered in June. If her strength is in listening and comprehending spoken Spanish, then November is the better choice.</p>
<p>Re the curves on the SAT II: According to the College Board info on this point–when I last read it–the 50th percentile on an SAT II subject test was set in a way that depended on the SAT I average of the students who took that SAT II. I am not quite sure whether the 50th percentile score in Physics (for example) is based on the math SAT I only, or M + CR, or M + CR + W. Also, I’m not sure whether it’s a direct equivalence, or adjusted somehow.</p>
<p>The standard deviation is approximately 100 points on the SAT II. On average, students who take Math IIC have scored higher on the SAT I than have the students who take some of the other subject tests. This means that the 50th percentile score on Math IIC winds up pretty high on the 200-800 scale, to begin with. And then a student who is one standard deviation above the average among SAT II test-takers gets about 100 added points, beyond the mean. Soon, the computed score is above 800, and as a result, a score of 800 is about 80-85 %ile. A student can miss quite a few questions on the Math IIC and still score 800, because the mistakes are just moving him around in the (unreported) range above 800.</p>
<p>Note that there are two aspects to consider:<br>
Where is the 50th percentile set?
How does the student’s knowledge of the subject compare with the knowledge of the average student who takes that subject test?</p>
<p>The 50th percentile for Japanese being set at 740 (just using qialah’s numbers) means that quite high scorers on the SAT I take the SAT II in Japanese. But many of them are probably native speakers, or students who have studied Japanese outside of high school. The 50th percentile being 740 does not help a student much if the student winds up four standard deviations below average on the Japanese test. </p>
<p>The students who take SAT II Spanish are also quite strong, on the whole, since the 50th percentile is 670.</p>
<p>I think the colleges look at the numerical score, rather than the percentile! If you have an 800, your percentile is determined by the number of other students also scoring 800 or above. So, for instance, if 800 is just the 55 percentile, a student cannot have a reported percentile above 55, even if the student was the only one in the country who answered all of the questions correctly.</p>
<p>I have the impression that schools mostly look at the number, not the percentile, and that they heavily discount the number when the student is a native speaker, although that does depend somewhat on the test. The Chinese test, for example, is reportedly much easier for native speakers than the French is for those who are fluent, because of the relative difficulty of the languages for an English speaker. </p>
<p>Doing a full sample test is probably the best way to estimate a score. </p>
<p>I have heard that the test with listening is somewhat less reliable because some students have difficulty hearing well with the equipment they bring.</p>
<p>It is difficult for non-bilingual students to achieve high scores on the language SAT II tests. I assumed that my daughter, who had always gotten high grades in spanish with little work, would do well on the Spanish test. Due to scheduling conflicts, she had to take the listening test in November, and was not very happy with her score. She was convinced that it would keep her out of her highly selective ED school, but fortunately, it did not. This is a tough dilema for students who are strongest in humanities and social sciences. If she does take the Spanish test, have her try the one without listening.</p>
<p>You may want to have her at least try out a practice test. My D (not a native speaker) is also in 4th yr of Hon Spanish and will do AP next year. She was taking another subject test in December and decided what the hey, I’ll take the Spanish too…she scored a 740. No prep at all.</p>
<p>ETA: OP: Just noticed, you are considering Spanish vs World History. Last year she took World History (after studying for the AP), and also got a 740. But that 740 was hard to earn while the Spanish was a breeze. So it really depends on the individual student. If in doubt, just take them all. Schools will just take your highest.</p>
<p>One wrinkle about World History–If I remember, it isn’t given at every sitting of the SAT. You should definitely check out that it is given in the spring.</p>
<p>I just checked out the 2008-2009 schedule for World History Sat 2 tests: Dec 08 and June 09.</p>
<p>vicariousparent, Your daughter’s score on the Spanish SAT II is really encouraging…I’ll tell my daughter it’s worth a try! Thanks!! The Japanese one is given only once a year, in the fall, and it has the listening…she said she might try it for a laugh!</p>