<p>Ok. I am going to graduate one year from April and I have only had two semesters of French. I still have two semesters of French to go to be able to graduate with my degree. I know that I need at least one more foreign language to be able to get into a good graduate program in Classics. I am going to start German and try to get at least two semesters out of it. I know that I am very far behind in my language requirements, but I was wondering if it is realistic to try and learn two foreign languages at the same time. </p>
<p>I also know that I need to learn Latin and Greek, but I am in a hard spot when it comes to that. My school does not offer either language. I am going to to attempt to gain a reading knowledge on my own over the next year, but I am just looking for any advice I can get.</p>
<p>What is my best option at this point. Is it hopeless as of right now to try and get into graduate school for Classics?</p>
<p>I am not an expert in classics but I do know a little. I am focusing on another language, which is why I am in Cairo. If you are going to go to grad school in classics, it is generally advised to have at least three years in one ancient language and two years in another. These languages are the core of the program and are more important than French or German. Many programs only require a reading knowledge of the modern European languages and this is easier to obtain.</p>
To be blunt, yes. Most PhD programs expect at least four years of one language and three of the other for philology and history and three/two for archaeology. MA programs will expect at least two/one or advanced coursework in one language. Keep in mind that these are bare minimums; classics is by far one of the most competitive fields for admission, and many applicants will go beyond this.</p>
<p>Post-Bac programs are good, but they are intended to strengthen one’s languages, not teach them from scratch. I would recommend a good summer program coupled with language courses taken for credit at a local public university after graduation. After you have a year or two of both languages, you could shoot for a post-bac program or possibly a master’s.</p>
<p>A good listing of summer language programs can be found here:</p>
<p>You may also want to consider coming at classics from another angle. Depending on your background and area of interest, you could consider applying to graduate programs in art history, comparative literature, history, philosophy, religion, etc. These programs are often (though certainly not always) somewhat more lenient toward classical languages, though art history is likely the only one willing to consider an applicant without any language coursework whatsoever. It’s also more practical for employability; classics is regrettably a dying field, and job placement is not at all good. Placement in history and related fields is not great either but somewhat better.</p>
<p>Do NOT apply to any classics program until you have a very solid foundation in Greek and Latin. Languages are the first thing adcoms look for to quickly weed out people (usually more than 50%). Without any exposure to Latin or Greek, how do you know if classics is really the right field for you?</p>
<p>Russian is an excellent test for Greek. It’s got a similar alphabet and very similar grammar which is remarkably well-preserved. So if you want to do some language that will prepare you for Greek and Latin, I would go for Russian. I know one of the reasons I learned it so fast compared to others in my group was my background in Classics (1.5 years of Greek, 2 of Latin).</p>
<p>If you are bound and determined to apply, try doing Russian as preparation. You can make the argument that you’ve gone for a language that demonstrates your capacity to learn an inflected language with six cases and a different alphabet. I would choose that over German, which only has four cases, a similar alphabet, and which also is a lot more idiomatic than Russian.</p>
<p>Any master’s program in classics is going to require either French or German; a PhD program will require reading knowledge of both. Russian, while a fun language to learn, is comparatively useless for classics and will count for little if anything in admissions.</p>
<p>Really? I did classics as a minor for my undergrad and it was Latin, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew (classical), and classical Persian for languages (they did not offer all of these but if we could find the classes or transfer them they would have counted). French and German were considered as irrelevant as Russian, hence my advice. But that was for a bachelor’s, not a master’s. Interesting.</p>
<p>A huge amount of Classics scholarship is in French or German.</p>
<p>I agree with everyone else: If you haven’t spent some years with Latin and Greek, you are not ready to think about a graduate program in Classics, and you are not a qualified candidate for one in any event.</p>
<p>Yeah… I figured I was pretty much screwed. I guess that is what I get for not going to a better college and discovering my interests late. </p>
<p>I will just keep chugging along and try to get as many languages as I can. </p>
<p>I do have a professor at my University that is willing to teach me one on one latin and greek if I stay here for my Masters (I am a shoo-in here). My question is will it look bad if I continue here and get my masters and learn the languages? Or should I take courses after I graduate at another university to get my lamguages and then apply to a better masters program? </p>
<p>Learning languages is the important thing; it does not particularly matter how. Finances might be an issue. If they’re willing to fund you, I would certainly go for the MA; otherwise you might be able to acquire Greek and Latin cheaper elsewhere.</p>
<p>You’ll probably need to apply to an additional master’s program afterwards anyway. At most you’d have two years of each language, which could probably get you into a decent MA program but not any PhD programs.</p>
<p>Look bad to whom? What are you planning to do with the degree? There are very few professions and/or managers that really look at your college and whether you went to the Ivy League or went to another school. Academics might, but not if you go to a school with a solid undergrad and grad program in Classics.</p>
<p>Why not start with one-on-one or even try to get a basic first year of Latin using Rosetta stone? I think Latin will be a lot easier for you to do on your own than Greek because it’s just easier and there are so many more resources out there, like radio stations that stream over the Internet, many more books and more books for children that are easy to breeze through for the basics, etc.</p>
<p>At first I thought this was a joke. But I checked, and Rosetta Stone does offer Latin. Then I read what Rosetta Stone’s Latin curriculum is:</p>
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</p>
<p>So I knew that, yes, it was a joke.</p>
<p>The OP basically has no language study. Two semesters of French most places may or may not mean she knows how to sing “Alouette”, but it pretty much guarantees that she knows less grammar and language structure than a fourth-week Latin student. She hasn’t had what I would consider the fundamental socializing experience of all Classics people: the intense systematicity of Latin study. How can one possibly know she wants to be a Marine without going to boot camp?</p>
<p>I’m not sure what you think someone will get with one quarter of Latin. It’s really not that much more than Rosetta Stone offers.</p>
<p>As you said, the OP has basically no languages. So even basic Latin will be a boost to her knowledge. She doesn’t have to say she studied with Rosetta Stone, just to say that she engaged in self-study with basic primers for her own enrichment, in the lack of another opportunity at her college. Rosetta Stone takes the same amount of time as a quarter at college and the vocabulary is almost as much.</p>
<p>And again… if you can learn Russian, you can learn Greek, and vice-versa. I should know, I studied both. They are very similar in make-up. That’s why I suggested Russian. It’s a steep learning curve but if you can do it there’s no reason you can’t learn Greek, Latin more so.</p>
<p>By the way, I’m writing to the OP regarding language learning. If my goal were to eventually learn Latin and Greek, but I had very little access to those languages, I would study Latin on my own (Rosetta Stone! Assimile! Oh, the banality, the humanity, the HORROR! of learning Latin outside of a University… LOL) because it’s easy and try to access a similarly difficult language like Russian.</p>
<p>I’m not by any means suggesting that this program will get her into a competitive classics department instead. She will have to take Latin and Greek. But what to do until she can get there? A summer classics program is a great idea, but even one summer of intensive Latin will not be equal to two years of study which is usually the minimum.</p>
<p>Greek is not easy to learn on one’s own from scratch, but with a solid Latin textbook, I believe that gaining some proficiency is an option. I’m not sure how self-study would look, since it wouldn’t appear on one’s transcript, but it would help you get a sense of Latin. I personally used Jenney’s First and Second Year Latin books. I don’t necessarily agree with how they teach all of the concepts, but it’s one option. That could be easily followed by selected readings from various authors. Athenaze is a standard Greek textbook, though I have no experience with it. I suffered through JACT’s Reading Greek with a subpar teacher, followed by Chase and Phillips’ “A New Introduction to Greek” on my own. The former is fun, but I don’t think it’s great for learning Greek, and the latter is extremely terse and difficult for someone without Latin. Without a teacher, I’d stay away from Pharr’s Homeric Greek book (meant for beginners, but it has the feel of a book that would be much more helpful with a good teacher).</p>
<p>As for the modern languages…one of my Latin teachers administered a mock modern language exam for me in German after three and a half semesters and said I’d be able to pass a graduate exam in that language. It seems that at least 2 years in the research languages is something to aim for, though even with good grades in those courses, one would have trouble reading articles of scholarship with much ease - a second year modern language course is unlikely to teach Classics-specific vocabulary.</p>
It’s rubbish. Mastronarde’s book is the best, though somewhat tough going at first. Hansen & Quinn is decent, but it lacks an answer key, which in my opinion makes it unsuitable for independent study.</p>
<p>So I have decided on my options and needed advice about which route I should take. </p>
<p>First: I could go ahead and get my masters from my current U and travel to the U of Alabama to gain my language credits. By the type I am done with my masters, I will have about two years of both Greek and Latin. Then I could try and apply to a Classics program somewhere else.</p>
<p>Second: I could go ahead and apply to other masters programs in where there are professors of Ancient History instead of going the Classics route. Learn the rest of the languages that I might need while in my Masters program and continue from there.</p>
<p>If there are any other options that anyone might see for me, please let me know. Like I said, I still have until April 2012 before I graduate. </p>
<p>Also, would it be adviseable to try and study French and German at the same time? I am taking French right now, but I would like to start German in the Summer. I did not know if the languages were too closely related to one another?</p>
<p>French and German are absolutely not related to one another, but German is very similar in feel (at least in my mind) to English and it’s relatively easy to acquire. I would say it’s not only doable, but necessary to attack them both at one time. Most classics students are keeping Latin, Greek, and one or both of French and German all in the air at the same time during the period of four years. Then there are fields like mine which require all four of those and then typically at least one other ancient language. It is not easy, but I think it will give you the best training in your current situation.</p>
<p>Also, on a side note, someone mentioned a lack of answer key for Greek, but there is a grad student out there who is (albeit VERY slowly) releasing his own answer key for the text. In addition, there are several online study groups using the text which could be helpful. As for Latin, there are several good independent study option and ways to show proficiency. Further, if you’re willing to commit a Summer you can often acquire at least two years worth of an ancient language in one Summer through an Intensive program (like the one offered at University of Michigan).</p>
<p>There are a lot of overlapping words and sounds in French and German. German is, to my mind, easier to learn to speak than French, mainly because they speak more slowly. At least, it seems to me they speak more slowly, though it may be where I have been in these countries. French is easier to learn to read because the more “advanced” it gets, the more Latin it gets, so it’s really not hard to build up that vocabulary (and it will also help more with Latin).</p>
<p>I see no reason not to study them together. They are different enough that you should be able to manage it. French is a Romance language, and German is Germanic, with case. However on the up side they share a lot of sounds that English doesn’t have which is a big plus.</p>