Large difference in SAT scores due to learning disability. Anyone BTDT?

Applying to College
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<p>My Junior D just got her March SAT scores: CR: 800, W 700, M 480. So far I haven't found anyone else who has heard of such a large difference. She has an LD, (dyscalcula) diagnosed in 2nd grade. She does qualify for, and received, time and half. We did do some online tutoring since we are in a rural area. Her PSAT estimate was 420 so perhaps it helped. Not to be pessimistic but while I hope that with further tutoring she could raise it a little, there isn't much hope to make a significant change. Every standardized test she has ever taken have shown similar results. In grade school ITBS and such, her grade difference between math and verbal ranged between 6 years and 10 years. So this is basically who she is.</p>

<p>She is a talented writer and is looking at both local LAC and also some more selective national ones. I have no idea how she will be looked at by these schools. On the one hand, I can't imagine someone not wanting her in their English department. On the other hand, I know that she isn't and will never be "a well rounded" student. Will she be rejected out of hand? I know that I could not send her scores, but an 800 CR I think is such an accomplishment, why would we not show her Ace? </p>

<p>Does she have any shot at Swarthmore, Haverford, Middlebury, Amherst, Davidson, Washington & Lee, Wesleyan, Colgate? Assuming her grades, EC's , etc. are up to par. Or will the low math torpedo her. </p>

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<p>While I don’t have any experience with that, and there may be exceptions I’m not aware of. I do tend to think it would be a problem because it isn’t even ‘average’. And those types of schools are looking for a baseline of accomplishment in all areas. How does she do with her grades in those classes? If well, perhaps that with her diagnosis will sway them to overlook it. But you have to realize that those schools may have actually never admitted someone with that math score. I would strongly consider some test optional colleges there are quite a few good/top LACs,and not share the scores. Most of them say not to send if you don’t think your scores reflect you. I know she did amazing with the 800 but you have to realize that 800 in itself isn’t getting you ‘in’ any more than a 720 would necessarily, because it is all about the whole package. I think you need some specialized advice because of the condition. Good luck.</p>

<p>Some test optional similar to some you mention: Bowdoin, Bennington, Bard, Bates (why so many B’s?), Colby, Earlham…a ton more.
<a href=“ACT/SAT Optional List - Fairtest”>http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>We had a different situation, but similar in that if a college had just looked at the numbers (GPA, scores, class rank) my D would probably not have done well in admissions. Luckily, though, the type of college she loved (small LACs) tend to be the ones who read applications more thoroughly and holistically.</p>

<p>I think that the sort of schools you’re looking at will probably consider the circumstances leading to the low math SAT (especially since CR is 800!) The key is going to be to explain it clearly and well. I would have her speak to her Guidance Counselor and ask that person to please include a PROMINENT note in her statement explaining the SAT score, describing this LD and pointing out how well your D does despite it. Your D can also include an explanation in the “Additional Information” section of the Common App. Lastly, some colleges actually invite parents to write LORs for their kids (Smith College and Hampshire do, I know) and that would be another place to describe how well your child hs done despite this LD, and point out the low SAT score is due to the LD.</p>

<p>Is she at all interested in any of the womens’ colleges? She might want to consider Mount Holyoke, Smith, and Wellesley which have a lot of similar qualities to the others on your list, and I KNOW do read applications very thoroughly and holistically. We were told by several admissions people that they really love applicants who have demonstrated risk-taking, bravery, perseverence and success despite setbacks and obstacles… I’d think this would apply to your D’s situation, no?</p>

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<p>Thanks. She is looking at womens’ colleges but she is currently at a single-sex High School, so she would prefer co-ed, but is definitely considering them. She also has nothing against colleges starting with “B” ; ) - but really doesn’t love Maine. We may have to go the “test optional” route. I hate to have that limit her but I may not have a choice. </p>

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<p>First, I’d have her work on the math and give the SAT one more try. If she can even get it to 500, it would seem a lot better. Second, it is probably worth throwing in one or two applications to the top LACs you mentioned – given her disability, you never know. You can submit one or two of her writings as a supplement. But your D has to understand it is a bit of a long-shot. You may want to research Kenyon, Hamilton and maybe Reed as well.</p>

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<p>I agree with parts of everyone’s posts – first, I would consider applying to several of the top LACs that are now test-optional (I think Hamilton, Bowdoin and Bard are a few) and some that are known for being more holistic (like Kenyon). I would, however, not dissuade her from applying to the schools she wants to go to if her grades in high school show that she can handle college-level work. That would be the key. An 800 in CR is awesome but only helps offset the low math if she also has shown that she can earn As in most of her classes as well. I also agree that it will be imperative that her GC not only note this in her application, and your D also note the issue in her “Other Information” part of the Common App – but I would go so far as to say that both your GC and your D should be proactive especially with her top 3-4 schools by making phone calls, emails to the admissions reps to proactively point out this issue.</p>

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<p>Thanks. Those are all great points. She has high grades in her Language Arts classes (all Honors or AP’s) and holds her own in Math/Science courses (low B’s) but they are regular grade level classes. She loves Kenyon, its at the top of her list so its great to hear that others think its a good option. Fingers crossed that she can get the math up some on the next try. </p>

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<p>My student had almost exactly the same scores and was accepted to several LACs comparable to the ones on your list, although not these specific ones. I wish someone had told me last fall that it was going to be ok! </p>

<p>I would recommend that your student apply to more schools than she normally would. My student had an unusual pattern of acceptance/rejection, with rejections from schools that are usually considered less selective, and unexpected acceptances from reach schools, so clearly the math weakness mattered at some admissions meetings and not so much at others. </p>

<p>Especially if your student indicates a strong interest in a major that is writing-focused or arts-focused, I imagine she’ll have the same experience as my student, and will get into some great schools. She may also want to try the ACT, which some math-disabled students find easier to navigate (my student did).</p>

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<p>Oh, and I would totally encourage her to apply to schools that DO require standardized scores. The scores tell the Admissions committee a lot about who your student is, and what her comparative strengths and weaknesses are. There is nothing to be ashamed of here. She has a math disability and always will. She also has terrific grades in English and is a great writer (and by the way, this is far more rare a skill than being great at math, and the admissions people know it, because they have to read all those essays). On top of these things she has excelled in AP classes, and earned an 800 in CR…in short, she is an extremely strong applicant in the fields that she’s interested in pursuing. She should be proud of her accomplishments, and apply with confidence.</p>

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<p>Also, when writing or emailing to describe her situation, be sure to spell the condition correctly: it seems to be “Dyscalculia.” If someone googles it and sees it misspelled, it could unfairly affect your credibility.</p>

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<p>@pwigpwig - Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! That is so comforting to hear. It’s also good to know that my strategy sounds like a good plan. I had assumed that we would need to apply to a larger pool of schools because some would take her LD into account and others wouldn’t. I can’t tell you how much better that makes me feel. </p>

<p>@MisterK - Thank you for pointing that out. I PROMISE I know how to spell Dyscalculia. ; ) - I’ve probably written it a hundred times. But I do tend to mistype it and you are right, I better make sure its spelled right on anything I send out. </p>

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<p>I apologize that this is somewhat outside the scope of your question. However, I think I may be able to give you some helpful advice, so much so that I actually decided to register so that I could chime in on this one. When you say you are in a rural area, how far away is the nearest major city (just assessing how easy it will be to fine tutors who cater to your child’s specific needs)? Having taught students with ADD and LD students and as an SAT tutor (I’m not trying to drum up business, I work overseas), I would advise you to do a few things:</p>

<ol>
<li>Find your daughter a tutor who specializes in LD students who can supplement your daughter’s SAT tutoring. If you can afford to do so, this would be the ideal set-up:</li>
</ol>

<p>a: An SAT tutor who understands your daughter’s special needs and is willing to be accommodating. </p>

<p>b. An LD tutor who can take what she is learning and help her adapt it to your daughter’s needs. </p>

<p>c. Have them keep in touch with each other. If they are unwilling to, or they make a weird face when you ask them, find a new tutor.</p>

<p>d. I’m going to propose something radical:
How many hours does your daughter spend on SAT prep?</p>

<p>Now let me ask , if your daughter was able to devote 30-40 hours a week during the summer and 15 hours a week during the school year to SAT prep, could she raise her scores?</p>

<p>Unless your target schools de-emphasize standardized tests or are test-optional, you should consider this way of looking at how she allocates her time in the coming months:</p>

<p>Even if grades are more important than her SAT scores at her target schools, the time frame we are talking about will encompass perhaps only 1/6 of her GPA (if we are talking about the equivalent of one semester, if that, of studying for the SAT). </p>

<p>Are the SAT’s more important than 1/6 of her GPA? If you look at it this way, your daughter has the chance to devote the kind of time needed to raise her SAT Math score significantly. She should not, of course, let her grades plummet, but if they are less than perfect, and she is able to obtain a decent math score because of it, would that help her?</p>

<p>Even if your daughter struggles with test, the SAT Math section is not really a test of one’s math skills. It is a test of how well your daughter can take the SAT. I have not worked with anyone who had your daughter’s specific condition, but I have yet to see a student who, with determination, a willingness to follow the strategies and do take A LOT of practice tests, can not significantly raise his or her score.</p>

<p>Test optional schools:
I think BrownParent gave you some good advice about looking into test optional schools, considering your unique situation. However, why not apply a two-pronged approach - one of applying to those schools and those that require the SAT’s. </p>

<p>I am not an admissions coach, but here’s one thing that students and parents overlook about test optional schools:
Out of the thousands of American universities, the number of test optional schools is very very small. The oft-touted number of “800” includes a lot of art schools and non-traditional four-year institutions. This means that the number of higher-tier test optional schools is far smaller. This also means that, because many other quality students have various reasons for wanting to include their SAT scores (or take the SAT at all), your daughter will be competing with a disproportionately more competitive pool, as the schools can cherry pick from a pool of applicants who, like your daughter, are wonderful students, but encountered setbacks on the SAT. </p>

<p>Remember that a college is, as many say, “a match to be made.” If a school disregards all of your daughter’s wonderful qualities and her strong performance on the rest of the SAT (an 800 on the CR section is truly impressive!) because she did not perform well on one section of the exam, then they probably are not going to be a school that is worthy of having her as a student. </p>

<p>I would still not give up on the SAT, and don’t ever let her anyone tell her she cannot do it. To get from a 480 to the 600’s, she does not have to master mathematics, she just has to learn some key concepts and master the art of taking the SAT. Have her study diligently, learn the concepts one at a time, and take all 13 of the practice tests over the months that elapse from now to October.</p>

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<p>

Most selective colleges are not looking for the most well rounded student or the one with highest test scores. If you look at section C7 of the CDS for the colleges you listed, you’ll find that most of them mark several criteria as more important than test scores, including some ones that we often do not focus on in this forum. For example, Swathmore and Haverford mark essays and LORs as more important than test scores, Davidson marks volunteer work as more important, and Washington & Lee marks ECs as more important. Every college I checked on the list agrees that character / personal qualities are in the most important column. If a student excels in areas colleges consider more important than test scores, it can help to overlook lower scores. Many colleges favor students who really excel in their planned field as reflected by grades, scores, and activities outside of the classroom all pointing to a common theme of talent and passion/interest in their desired field over well rounded candidates who are pretty good at everything, but don’t really stand out from the thousands of other applicants. For example, a 800 verbal / 480 math looks a lot better for a prospective English major than a prospective engineer (assuming holistic admission criteria). At many colleges, it would look better than a 640V/640M . My SATs had a very similar large difference – 800 math (and math II) with a 500 verbal. I was accepted unhooked as a prospective engineer to Stanford, MIT, and ivies, in spite of the verbal score being in the bottom 1% of the entering class at many of them.</p>

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<p>@testadvice - Thanks for your very comprehensive advice. I’ve given it a lot of thought and I agree that she needs to try again and continue to prep to improve her score. I don’t think it is feasible to spend as much time as you recommend but we will definitely make it a priority especially over the summer. I have already looked for specialized tutors and have not been able to find any in our area. We are about 60 miles away from a metropolitan area and there just is not a market for SAT services here. I have found a local math tutor recently and am hopeful that perhaps, along with her online prep course, she can help give her some strategies that will help improve her score. I do agree though that if she is going to look at national schools, she is going to have to submit her scores and hope that a school will put the emphasis on her strengths. We’re not giving up though. She will try again. </p>

<p>@Data10 - I agree that selective colleges say they rank other criteria higher, I just wasn’t sure that they actually do that in real life. ; ) I’m so glad to hear that you too had a similar experience with lopsided numbers. That really puts my mind at ease. Thank you so much for sharing that. </p>

<p>Thank you again to everyone who has answered. I’m very appreciative. </p>

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<p>If you find someone who is highly-recommended, try making them an offer. If they say no to extra money, try offering to pay their session rate for the extra drive time. I know that seems like a lot, but compared with tuition at a highly-selective private school, it’s not as expensive. Look at reviews and ask other parents you know, and I can tell you that, if the price is right, someone will make the trip. </p>

<p>It was actually an experience similar to your daughter’s that made me get into test-prep. When I took the GRE, I had very high Verbal scores, but my score on the Quantitative (very similar to the SAT Math section) were lower than your daughters, and I have ADD (I’m not comparing that to the challenges your daughter faced). I was able to raise my score to a 760. I’m not an admissions coach, but I’m guessing your daughter does not need to earn that high of a score. However, it meant that I spend a large portion of my time, at least 4 hours a day, studying during the summer. If your daughter faces significantly greater challenges, then I would recommend more. I would strongly urge you though to do some prep now. </p>

<p>I don’t really know the online providers, but Kaplan’s strategies were often helpful for the Math section.</p>

<p>You may also want to look at other ways to spruce up her application. Do the schools you are applying to care about the SAT Subject Tests at all? I would first, however, see if that would significantly balance out the math section. </p>

<p>Another thing you can try is, without giving your real name, just calling and asking the admissions dept. how they’d view a situation like your daughter’s. You can avoid giving an exact number for her score (you can say - high 400’s) if you are worried about it. If some schools say no, that does not always mean other, equally-selective ones will. </p>

<p>What score do you feel she needs in order to be well-positioned for her target schools?</p>

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<p>I would think she would need to be close to “average”. So maybe 550? But really I think that even if we can get her to 500 it wouldn’t SOUND so low. </p>

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<p>Hi - my daughter is EXACTLY like your daughter - dyscalculia and great writing skills. She just scored a 99% on ACT writing and a low ACT math score BUT her ACT math score was much higher than her SAT math score. Try the ACT. It is often a better test for kids like ours and almost every college acepts it. </p>

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<p>@chemmchimney - I had a High School GC reccomend that as well. I just wasn’t sure I wanted to add yet another test to the mix on top of SAT subject tests and AP’s. But I’m rethinking it. I may have her take a practice test just to see. Thanks for the suggestion. </p>

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<p>I would still find out from schools what numbers they need to see (just call in anonymously or email). </p>

<p>How many hours of prep per week did she do before (just for the Math section), if I may ask?</p>

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<p>My son was the opposite. He had a 250 point score difference in math and cr - but his high score was math. He has dyslexia, and from all I researched, it’s clearly an LD when there is more than a 200 point differential. What hurt him, which may factor in for you - under 1300 combined means no merit at most schools. It also made us tailor our list to specific schools, the dyslexia was not going to go away, much like it won’t for your d. My son won’t be a poet, yours won’t be a mathematician. Big whoop…they need to figure out their strengths. You need to look at schools with holistic admissions and line up some strong letters of recommendations. What we did since it was obvious he was a math and science person was to get his english teacher to write a rec for him. One of his essays mentioned overcoming one of his disabilities. </p>