Last Minute Questions from a Panicked Prefrosh

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>This is mostly directed toward current students (and alums)--</p>

<p>I'm a Yale/Harvard cross-admit who is absolutely agonizing over my decision! I went to both Bulldog Days and Harvard Prefrosh weekend, and I have utterly fallen in love with both schools. I don't know what to do!</p>

<p>A few things that may be make-or-break, come May 1st:</p>

<p>Housing:</p>

<p>One feature of Yale that I keep coming back to is the residential college system...I love the fact that it creates a real sense of community, facilitates student body unity, and encourages close relationships with fellow students and Deans and Masters. When I went to Harvard, I stayed with a senior in Currier in the Quad and felt far removed from campus; she lived on a hall with doors opening onto it, and I never once saw her interacting with anyone in her House. It didn't really seem to be a very warm living space, in general. To me, Harvard's House system lacked the spaces that made Yale's residential college system so successful--the common rooms (both within each suite and in the colleges themselves), the cozy dining halls, and the extra amenities, such as game rooms or gyms. At the same time, though, I feel like I may have gotten an inaccurate picture of House life; I never got a tour of any of the houses (including the one I was in!), and I didn't experience freshman life on the Yard like most other prefrosh were able to. </p>

<p>Do any of you current Harvard students feel as though the Housing system isn't very friendly? What are houses like? Do they also have easily-accessible Dean/Master-like figures to help run things and connect with students? Is there a lot of house pride? Do people hang out in their houses, or spend a lot of time there? Is it hard to find blocking mates, come time for housing lottery? I have so many questions about the Housing system--if anyone would like to elaborate on House life in general, I would love to hear about it! Complaints, compliments--I'll take it all. :)</p>

<p>I'm also a little concerned that the Housing system factionalizes the student body...is that true? Is it easy to interact with people in other houses, outside of class?</p>

<p>Happiness:</p>

<p>I'm really sorry if Harvard students are sick of hearing this question, but I would love to get as many opinions as possible on this, because to me, it's the most important aspect of my college experience. I guess I'll just start by asking: Are you happy? Are most of the people you know happy? </p>

<p>I've talked to a lot of students and alums, all of whom have obviously had very different experiences, but the general consensus seems to be that it takes a while to warm up to Harvard. I'm an optimistic person and I'm very happy usually, but I'm worried that I may end up at Harvard and somehow be emotionally iffy about the place, as many students seem to be. On the other hand, I met plenty of students who absolutely raved about it--what's the secret? Have they just figured out that the key to true success is following your heart? </p>

<p>Also, one last question: is it possible to be pre-med and still have a life/be a happy person at Harvard? I know that last question seems like a joke, but it's a true concern of mine!</p>

<p>I have two days left to come to a decision, and these are things that would be really helpful to resolve. Thank you so much for any input--I know a lot of other kids have similar questions and are in the same position!</p>

2

<p>You have posed some great questions and I really look forward to hearing the answers! My D and I attended pre-frosh weekend and she stayed with freshmen in Wigglesworth (I love that name!) and had a great time. We were told that each upperclass house has its own gym, dining hall, possibly pool table (?) and common space or possibly the dining hall in some becomes the common space or evening work area. In one case, they said that the drink machines get left on for kids when working but that may have been specific to that house. Apparently the houses have lots of fun competitions between them, which it seems might foster closeness at the house. The thing that I thought was pretty impressive was the extreme care that is put into selecting roommates - a very detailed survey and an essay (wait - I thought my D was done with those!!) and then a five week effort in the summer to match everyone up. They said that last year they only had six real problems with roommates that I think eventually got resolved by moving. Seems like a great record out of over 1500+ kids. My D’s really good friend is going to Yale (it will be a perfect fit for her) but I think there is just a very brief set of questions (3-6) asked. Like I said, we are not experts in any way but thought I would offer those things we heard at pre-frosh, and really look forward to people responding to you as you brought up some GREAT questions. In terms of happiness (this is a really small sample, however,) but we talked to a freshman proctor and her husband that we know and they brought up the query that they wondered why H sometimes has a rep for sad kids. She has 23 very happy freshmen in her care and knows of many others through her proctor friends. She thinks it may go back to previous days before H had such a generous aid policy and the campus community has become so diverse.</p>

3

<p>Two Ds at Harvard - both have loved their House lives. Until last year, my eldest had a live-in faculty House Master who had a Nobel Prize. He’s a great guy, ate with the students every evening, he and his wife had students in their apartment every night. He retired and was replaced by a faculty member who’s currently on Time’s list of the 100 Most Influential People in the world (also a dead ringer for George Clooney). I saw a Youtube video made after the House had defeated another rival House in some contest in which a couple guys posing as members of the rival House were talking trash at dinner and acting like sore losers - suddenly a polar bear burst into the dining hall and mauled them both (the House mascot is a polar bear). The guy in the bear costume was the new House Master.</p>

<p>Both Ds and all their friends who I’ve met (maybe 30 or so) are enthusiastically happy at Harvard. I think that Harvard, unlike any other school in America, probably has a cohort of students who really wanted to go elsewhere but felt obliged to choose Harvard because of the brand name. I’d guess that the 80% (?) who really wanted to come to Harvard are as happy or happier than any students anywhere; the 20% (?) or so that felt obliged to turn down their true love might be the naysayers.</p>

<p>BTW, the Metro Boston college scene is the most awesome college environment I’ve ever experienced. Sidewalks after dark are thronged with college students from all over the nation and the world. I’ve been on late-night weekend subway rides that felt like campus parties, where I was the only person over 25.</p>

4

<p>I’m a Yale guy from way back. I think Yale is wonderful and perfect. You should go there.</p>

<p>But you shouldn’t go there because you thing there’s some huge difference between Yale’s Residential College system and the Harvard House system, because there isn’t. I think the Yale system is a little better designed – you don’t have a lot of stress around housing in the middle of your first spring, you have a social context to meet upperclassmen as a freshman, you have more time to bond with your classmates – but most Harvardians sincerely believe in the advantages of their system – mainly more and closer friendships across House lines from freshman year. The Harvard Houses all have common rooms and dining halls and masters, etc. There is a lot more variation among them than there is at Yale. But, compared to the rest of the world, Harvard and Yale resemble each other more in this aspect than anywhere else resembles either of them.</p>

<p>You also shouldn’t go to Yale because you are afraid it’s not possible to be happy at Harvard. Most people at Harvard are happy, some insanely so. There’s a ton of stuff to be happy about there. My take on Harvard is similar to gadad’s: I think some Harvard students feel anxious about and a little oppressed by the idea of Harvard, that they are at the greatest university in the world and maybe don’t measure up, or aren’t doing enough to take advantage of it. That’s not everyone, or the majority of students, but it’s enough so that there is often that theme in the background. The same thing happens at Yale, too, but it’s enough less so that it’s pretty much invisible. If you are prone to feel that way, think twice about going to either college. If you aren’t, the only question is how much you are going to mind that some other people feel that way.</p>

<p>Pre-med: Some pre-meds are incapable of being happy and having a life, most pre-meds can handle those things fine. Harvard vs. Yale vs. anywhere else has nothing to do with that. I think Harvard has marginally more pre-meds than Yale, which means that it will have marginally more unhappy pre-meds than Yale (especially taking into account the prior point), and also perhaps that can seem like there is more competition. But these are really small differences. Both colleges produce scores of successful pre-meds, and people at both colleges drop out of being pre-meds, or are totally miserable about it, and then go on to be happy doing something else.</p>

5

<p>re: the housing system at H. My D, who is a senior, felt that the H system fostered a lot of class unity by housing freshmen together in freshman-only dorms on or near the yard and having them take their meals mostly at Annenberg. Because of all of the people she met as a freshman, she has friends in many different houses. The houses where upperclassmen live have lots of house spirit and unity, lots of contact and support from the House Masters. And now that senior is coming to an end, the class unity again seems very strong, both within her house and across the campus.</p>

<p>re: happiness – I suppose my D is not more than one data point, but she has been incredibly happy at H and, as I’ve said before, wishes there were some way to extend her time there. She is a naturally happy, optimistic person, too. As another example, one of her closest friends is pre-med and is very happy, still finds time for a job and a social life and is active in a time-consuming EC.</p>

6

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<p>Correct. Some Yale partisans constantly assert that there is a difference of cosmic proportions between the two systems (and Yale’s is far superior). When actually their similarities are much greater than their differences. Which is not surprising since they were both established in the 1930s by the same guy (Edward Harkness).</p>

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<p>Same for my daughter. She graduated in '08 and misses the place terribly. And actually it was meeting and hanging out with my daughter (among other helpful, friendly people) on campus that helped nceph’s daughter choose Harvard back when she was agonizing over the same question four years ago.</p>

7

<p>This thread is making me hope that my D does not get off the H waitlist :).</p>

8

<p>Ditto everything that NCeph and Coureur said. In fact, I think I think NCeph’s daughter could be one of my senior daughter’s good friends. She has a couple of them from NC, and I’ve heard identical language from my D, which makes me wonder if the students may have had this conversation among themselves.</p>

9

<p>I have never seen my son more happy than this year-his freshman year at Harvard. The deans did a great job matching room mates and the admissions people accepted really nice people! The proctor-a PhD psychologist is nurturing and aware. I would say the freshmen are well cared for. The freshman dorms are not your most amazing and the quarters are cramped and old-but the atmosphere is happy and friendly.</p>

10

<p>My D eats at all the different houses with many friends she met freshman year. Almost all the Houses welcome anyone else for meals- there are some lunch restrictions at the houses nearest campus such as Adams. </p>

<p>Pre-med classes will be challenging at both schools, but managed nicely by most. Although the Quad houses are an extra ten-minute walk, there are frequent shuttles, and many happy quadlings. (One can transfer out of their assigned House after living there one year.)</p>

<p>You will have a wonderful experience at either school, enjoy the choice!</p>

11

<p>There are trade-offs with the Quad. A longer walk, but single rooms are the norm.</p>

12

<p>Not to beat a dead horse, but my freshman D also has never been happier than she is at H.</p>

13

<p>I graduated two years ago and was awesomely happy there. </p>

<p>To briefly address the House system question, I think the way Harvard does it offers the best of both worlds. Because freshman are all together in the Yard and aren’t divided at all by house affiliations during the first year, a genuine sense of class-wide unity truly does develop. I can personally attest to it, because when senior year rolled around and it came time for all the class-wide pre-graduation activities, I’ve never seen a group of people more joyful to hang out with one another. And in the years since, I’m still in close contact with not just my classmates that shared my house, but a number of other people in my graduation year.</p>

<p>In addition to fostering class unity, because students still live in their assigned House for three years, strong senses of community and pride definitely develop. Spaces like the house dining hall and common rooms become places to gather socially and to study together. You really do get to know the people in your house - people chat over house email lists, attend housewide events, and sometimes students end up just hanging out in the dining hall for hours after meals talking to other housemates. (For the record, I lived in Dunster and it was awesome.)</p>

<p>Just a final note, I think it’s a bit silly that people count the “stress” of choosing a blocking group freshman year as a point against Harvard and in favor of Yale. Even if they’re assigned to a house from the first year, Yale students still have to choose who they want to be roommates with from sophomore year onward. How is that any different - or any less ripe with potential for hurt feelings - than choosing who to block with (since those people almost universally are your roommates in the house)? </p>

<p>That’s my 2 cents. Good luck with your decision, captivated!</p>

14

<p>Not to mention that you get to spend your freshman year in residence on the most sacred ground in all of American intellectual lore. And, if your parents drive to freshman move-in, on that day only, they get to become some of the few people on the planet who have actually gotten to “Pahk their cah in . . .”, well, you know. :)</p>

15

<p>What is a “D…?”</p>

16

<p>Yale was my favorite school (I’m a Yale 2014) because of their residential College system. When I visited schools, I did get the idea that Yale’s system is totally different than the other systems. Its a focal point of life at Yale–and while I think the setup is similar at Harvard, its the culture that makes them different.</p>

<p>I never buy that Harvard’s student are unhappy, and I don’t think any fellow Pre-Frosh should choose against Harvard because they buy the crap about it not being a good undergraduate school or about it not being a happy place. Its obviously a very nice school, and happiness is generally what you make it.</p>

<p>However, I do feel Yale has a reputation for being more energetic. I heard from students at a different Ivy that they felt Yale went a little easier on the workload to encourage their students to participate in extracurriculars. Yale was a fantastic fit for me, and I was lucky enough to get in to my #1.</p>

<p>I’d like to tell you to just go to Yale and forget Harvard (gotta get that yield up for my future school) but I met people at Bulldog Days who I truly felt would be happier at Harvard–and I told them so. There are two ways I interpret a decision like this. First, if you really click with Harvard but you’re wary because of things you’ve heard (Harvard doesn’t focus on their undergrads, Harvard students are unhappy and etc.) definitely ignore others and just go there. Harvard is just like any other HYPS school–great academics, great reputation, great people, and yo pick the one that fits with you.</p>

<p>But I’ve also met some people who really clicked with Yale and immediately felt it was the right fit, but were worried they were making the wrong practical decision. I met a few students who were making the Harvard vs. Yale choice and were worried in this regard, but mostly I met musicians who were worried about this.</p>

<p>In this situation, if you felt like Yale fit with you but you’re nervous to turn down Harvard (which I wouldn’t be able to blame you for–its Harvard!), absolutely go to Yale. The people you hear the bad stories about Harvard from, in my opinion, are the people who turned down Y/P/S/M because they couldn’t say no to the Crimson, even though they would have been a better fit at one of the other schools. When its a decision like Harvard vs. Yale, forget academics, forget prestige, forget opportunities–there will be plenty at both places. Go with where you fit socially.</p>

<p>But that’s just one man’s opinion, of course.</p>

17

<p>Just want to address this briefly: </p>

<p>“However, I do feel Yale has a reputation for being more energetic. I heard from students at a different Ivy that they felt Yale went a little easier on the workload to encourage their students to participate in extracurriculars. Yale was a fantastic fit for me, and I was lucky enough to get in to my #1.”</p>

<p>I’m sure Yale is a very energetic school, but it’s very unlikely that it’s more energetic than Harvard. Harvard has the most vibrant extracurricular scene that you’ll find anywhere - that’s a pretty widely accepted fact, and one of the defining characteristics of the school. People are often so passionate about their activities there that it can often feel like that’s really what the school is all about, with classroom learning coming second. Harvard students who opt to devote most of their energies to extracurriculars are certainly able to adjust their workload accordingly through the courses they choose, and some do. You rarely hear anyone complain that schoolwork is keeping them so busy that they barely have time for The Crimson/the undergraduate council/the IOP/the Black Students Association. In fact, you’ll quite frequently hear that it’s the other way around.</p>

18

<p>Ugh…the extracurricular life at Harvard is beyond vibrant. I <em>love</em> that about the school.</p>