Late to the Party, need some help please.

State Forums
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<p>Need some help and direction about California colleges for son. All of the sudden, it's time to think about college but he has no direction from school's counselor. All we have done so far is set time aside this summer to go look at colleges but don't even know where to go look! </p>

<p>Lives in California, wants to stay in California, Junior, has a 4.0 UW and a 4.67 W , rank 3-6? of ~275 and just got first ACT score of 33. (35 Eng, 32 Math, 32 Read, 34 Science, writing 10) I have about $60K for college for this kid, make under 70K, no assets. Naturally smart, no URM, no hooks, almost no ecs-just plays guitar and drums in his own rock band and traveled to Europe. He has no idea what he wants to major in. He is thinking of math/science/eng to be "practical" about a making money career but his talents are really writing/eng but no money for Eng. Majors-lol. Great writer, took community college english classes with A's in 6th, 7th & 8th grade, no credit on his high school record though they will show up on his college transcript since he took a few courses in high school, I think? We don't even know if you are supposed to submit this? He stopped going to the CC when the high school placed restrictions on how many cc credits one could have.</p>

<p>When I run the calculators, the UC costs are close to what we can pay with Cal Grant but it seems like all kids have 4.0 and higher than 33 ACT scores? Should he retake the ACT? On the one practice test he did, his reading was a 35 so the 32 was a surprise. Does he have any chance of getting into the good schools in Ca like Berkeley, Stanford or UCLA? Look at next tier schools like UCSD or UCSB? What about privates like Pomona? Santa Clara seems to give money but not such a good school?</p>

<p>What schools should we be looking at? After reading here, now I know he needs a few safety schools and a middle reach and a high reach? Apply to how many schools? Thanks in advance for any help you can give us!</p>

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<p>Is staying in California an absolute must?</p>

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<p>Yes, he wants to stay in Ca. (and I do too, plus we’ve read here it’s usually best to go to school where you plan to live and work?) Thanks for thinking of solutions for us!</p>

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<p>Your son has amazing stats, but not having extracurriculars is going to hurt. How active is he in the band? Is it just a hobby or does he perform at talent shows or anything?</p>

<p>Does he want a large school or a small school? Private or Public? Does he prefer northern or southern california? Urban, suburban, or rural?</p>

<p>Your son should definitely apply to some highly competitive schools such as Berkeley, UCLA, Claremont McKenna Colleges, maybe even stanford. These may all be reaches due to his minimal ECs, but he definitely has a shot.</p>

<p>He should have some matches as well. UC Davis, UCSB, UCI, UCSD (might actually be a reach), Cal Poly SLO. Some privates that come to mind are Santa Clara, University of the Pacific, Occidental (again, could be a reach.) I think if he really shows a passion for music and his band, it could make up for the lack of other ECs and all/most of these schools should be matches or even safeties. </p>

<p>Some absolute safeties might include UCSC or UCR. I’m not sure about any private safeties. </p>

<p>If he’s willing to go to Oregon, there’s Lewis and Clark, Reed, or University of Portland, to name a few.</p>

<p>You could try [URL=&lt;a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/]this[/URL”&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/college_search/]this[/URL</a>] as well. It helps a lot knowing he wants to stay in California.</p>

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<p>Thanks JeSuis! We didn’t think his stats were “amazing” after reading of so many really incredible kids here but he does have a tough load, 3 aps, Calc, US History and Science and an honors English this year plus he is the science lab tech. We’re proud of him but honestly, the school work comes pretty easy to him. Next year he will take 4 aps and another college math. He only has one AP from 10th grade, World History and scored a 5 but had a bunch of uc approved “honors” like chemisty and english. I just now read about the UC gpa so am off to figure that out now.</p>

<p>Do you think he should retake the ACT? We just have 4 days to decide.</p>

<p>Should he take any SAT subject tests? It looks like the Claremont ones require it?</p>

<p>Yes, it really narrowed things down when he said he wanted to stay in CA. He is open to any and all ideas showing no preference to large or small, public or private but not really rural like Davis. We are south of SF so “I” would like him to be close but he doesn’t care as long as it’s driving distance in a day so Oregon is out. The only other thing he didn’t like was applying to a college like Cal Poly where you HAVE to declare your major and not switch since he doesn’t know what he wants to do. We did look hard at CalPoly and the amazing engineering program but how would he know if he would like that and then get stuck not being able to switch? Also, when I run the numbers, CSU’s are more expensive than the UC’s for some reason. Not a lot, but enough that we didn’t look into them more.</p>

<p>His band plays around town for free and he uses that as his community service hours that his school requires to graduate. How does one distinguish between hobby and ? He plays festivals and art shows for other schools, churches. community functions but doesn’t get paid (aka community service.) I guess he will be able to use this as an ec? He is the leader and they rehearse at my house at least weekly (oh, joy!) He writes most of the songs, words and music, too so I guess it’s a “passion” for him. He was in the school talent show but it wasn’t competitive. The only other EC is the “travel club” I mentioned above but he only did the Europe trip and they just cancelled his trip for summer due to most of the kids not having the money, so sad. He is also looking for something to do this summer, an internship, or something so he’ll have at least something else to write on an application. In Junior High, he had so many ecs, state awards, spelling bee, state science fair, CTY, etc. that I think he just got burnt out on all of it and is now paying the price! He is an amazing writer but I can’t imagine what he will write on his college essays having never had any obstacles to overcome-lol. </p>

<p>Thanks for all the help and thanks for putting a list together for us. It’s nice to know that he has some matches and some wonderful reaches as well. Out of all the schools, Stanford would be the least expensive, leaving some $ leftover for grad school, but I won’t hold my breath on that one-lol. He likes the look of USC, where would that fit in? He would need $ though so if it’s competitive to get in, he would not stand out enough to get any $.</p>

<p>So the list should be like this?:</p>

<p>High Reach-Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, Claremont McKenna, Pomona, Harvey Mudd?</p>

<p>Low Reach-UCSD, Occidental (if a reach probably won’t get $?)</p>

<p>Match-UCSB, UCI, UofP & Santa Clara(again probably no $?) Cross off Davis-too rural</p>

<p>Safeties-UCSC. Didn’t like Riverside, he heard it was a “commuter” school?</p>

<p>(Ha, I thought match and safety were the same thing so good thing I asked how to do this!)</p>

<p>This feels like a good start! I really appreciate your time and help!</p>

<p>So do we wait until he gets accepted somewhere and then turn in his college courses for credit? Between his 8 aps and his college credits, he would have a good head start if the school accepts them all.</p>

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<p>Your list looks realistic, but I think you will get more merit aid than you expect. With lower stats I was offered a full tuition scholarship and entry into the honors program at both SCU and LMU (another school you may want to consider). I would consider SCU and UoP safeties though.</p>

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<p>Thanks LilyEmery, congrats to you! Where are you going? That’s helpful information to know. I’ll add LMU to the list. Someone mentioned Pepperdine too, do you know anything about that school? If he got money, then SCU would be a safety but he surely can’t afford to go there without. If he got full tuition, we could swing the r&b. </p>

<p>What about USC? Would that be a high reach? Any chance at money, cross it off the list or keep it and apply to see what he might be offered? I’m not sure why it appeals to him but I don’t like the area at all.</p>

<p>Son just got home and said he wanted to retake the ACT so he just signed up. He is sure that he would get a better score even if he only brought up the reading. He had only done one practice test a few months ago so even though we read only 40% of retakes score higher, he decided to do it. He also signed up for the SAT subject tests “just in case” he needs them. I think he hopes all the testing will be done by the end of this year so he won’t have to test as a senior. He is supposed to take the SAT this Sat, 3 Aps next week so he says he’s in testing mode. He had 3 finals in the past few days and did really well, got the highest score on one of them so he’s feeling good. </p>

<p>It’s such a shame that he has no ecs. It’s just not “cool” at his school to join the clubs and I have to agree they are pretty unappealing. They have bbq, speed stacking, gsa, anime, fashion, and travel so you can see why he picked travel-lol. All of his AP peers basically formed their own “club” and meet for study groups often and they all enjoy that. I also forgot that he tutors other kids in math so maybe that can count for an ec? He just does it because he is nice, no payment or anything but sometimes the kids come for hours so it is a “sacrifice” on his part.</p>

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<p>I don’t think your son would have too much trouble getting into UOP and Santa Clara. If I had to choose between the two of these schools, I would pick Santa Clara, though. It’s much closer to major Silicon Valley employers than UOP, and it has a better reputation overall in the engineering department.</p>

<p>USC would probably be on par with UCLA, but don’t bother if they don’t offer a financial aid package that brings the cost down to a competitive level.</p>

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<p>Thanks hdsjjim, so you think USC is a high reach too? Ds has actually been to Santa Clara before for an award from Hopkins CTY and he really liked the campus. I was told that any UC was “better” in terms of rank and prestige though at least the top 3 tiers so if he could get into UCSB he would be better going there than Santa Clara? </p>

<p>Ha, I see this is kind of like playing the lottery, isn’t it? He applies to a bunch of schools, waits for acceptances, waits for financial packages and then decides. At this point, other than the essays, it’s basically out of his hands (and ours.) It’s a good thing I read ahead of time to budget for testing and applications! </p>

<p>He asked today if it was even worth us taking vacation time to go see schools. He thinks it would be more prudent to wait until he gets accepted/aid and then go look. What do you think of that idea?</p>

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<p>I ended up going to College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. I don’t know much about Pepperdine… as for USC they seem to emphasize test scores so I think he has a good chance. They also tend to give out a lot of money to good students. What’s your budget? It’s best to build your choices around that because getting into a school is pointless if you can’t afford it.</p>

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<p>Namewise, UCSB is better than Santa Clara, but Santa Clara will have vastly smaller class sizes – meaning more one-on-one with the professors. Also, if you are considering Santa Clara, you might also consider SJSU. Although SJSU’s administration is the DMV of California public schools, its educational reputation is roughly equal to that of Santa Clara, so you might be able to use it as a bargaining chip.</p>

<p>USC is a reach, but not as high a reach as Stanford.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much to you both. Lily, our budget is slim at $60K for all 4 years unless things change. We have another child who will start college when he finishes-bad timing! We had a 529 for both kids but it was “mismanaged” and when the settlement came in from the class action, we received only a nominal award so it was very sad since we had been putting money in since their births. </p>

<p>Things are looking up today as son received a prestigious award at school and has decided on an internship for the summer so he will at least have something to write on his applications. I showed him the list and he agrees with applying to most and seeing what happens. We also figured out how to look at the common data sets to interpret a bit more about each school’s financial aid amounts and laughed when we realized some of them call loans aid! Tricky business.</p>

<p>What do you think of waiting to visit colleges until after he gets acceptances/aid packages or should we do it this summer? It looks as though only the Claremont ones take into account that we visited but certainly the UC’s don’t and if USC in La is a reach than he probably wouldn’t get any money so what’s the point of looking and getting all excited about it? Visit schools this summer or wait?</p>

<p>hesdjjim, is there some list of rankings that is a realistic educational rankings of CA other than the forbes, news, etc.? I didn’t grow up here so it’s all new to me. Funny comment about the sjsc admin! </p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

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<p>Visit Claremonts and USC if possible, but I wouldn’t bother unless it’s convenient. If you can afford to make a mini vacation out of it, go ahead. If it would be straining in any way, dont bother. </p>

<p>The list looks good. Perhaps add USD and LMU as safeties, he should get money there.</p>

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<p>Thank you, alwaysleah. Yes, we can easily do a quick visit down south as we also have family to see there. I’ll add your suggestions to the list as well. I didn’t look at USD at all so we’ll check into it. </p>

<p>So, once you get accepted/financial aid packages and before you have to decide and send in your SIR, I’m guessing most places have days to visit during the spring, right? It does seem that once you get offers, you have such a short time to make up your mind? It looks like just about a month from reading posts on here?</p>

<p>If he goes and sees the schools now and makes a list of favs, it would be that much easier to decide when the time comes. I keep telling him not to take such a heavy load next year “just in case” he wants to do those admitted student visits but he’s determined to take all the APs that his school has left and Cal 2 at the college because his school doesn’t have it. Today, he thinks Physics would be his major but he hasn’t even had that class yet-lol! He’ll take Ap Physics next year so we’ll see if he feels the same way. Each time he thinks he would like some major, he does a lot of research and comes back to tell me no jobs for that field-lol. I think these kids have it much tougher than the past when you could take what you liked best and most likely get a job in your field.</p>

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<p>Make it a plan then - if your son likes STEM, Harvey Mudd may be a good fit (though it is a reach simply because it is so competitive). Will your son be a National Merit Semi-finalist (PSAT > around 221)? If so, he should get a nice scholarship at USC, about half-tuition. </p>

<p>Yes, you only have one month! However, I don’t think it’s necessary to choose his absolute favorites beforehand. When he receives acceptances, it shouldn’t be too difficult to get it down to the top few - there will be some schools where he doesn’t get enough aid, and other schools where he gets so much money or they are so much more prestigious that it will come down to those, eliminating the others. For example, my sister is not as much of a “top student,” but when she applied, she ended up with around 8 acceptances. For various reasons, including places where she didn’t get merit money (Santa Clara, Occidental - but don’t worry your son is a much stronger applicant), and places that simply weren’t very competitive (cal states, etc.), she ended up with 3 schools - UCD, UCSC, and Mills college (large scholarship there - but all girls so not applicable here LOL). Your son will most likely experience something similar. They will all have admitted student days, but at that point he will be in second semester senior year, so it won’t be too big of a deal if he gets a B or 2. </p>

<p>I think you will be able to package your son’s ECs quite nicely - the band EC is very interesting. If he was just playing at home for fun it would be more difficult, but because he performs for community service, he will be able to list his hours practicing as an EC. Definitely list the math tutoring. The internship and award will help as well. Yes, he is light on the ECs, but they definitely exist.</p>

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<p>Thanks so much alwaysleah, you are very encouraging and although we are trying to be realistic, it’s nice to have some hope as well! I think a lot of kids are so discouraged in his class after hearing the amount of appications this year and how many rejects there are. They were upset to see so many out of state admits too. We are in a racially diverse area and many kids were shocked this Spring that so many of the top seniors didn’t get into the good schools but lots of the mediocre students did so he’s convinced that “white male” is going to be a big black mark against him. It may well just be a coincidence but at least he is getting a better idea of the big picture and being realistic about his chances. It is funny but the kids all know who the good students are, who the smart and dedicated ones are probably better than the teachers after being together 12 years or more. They all know what the others test scores, grades, rank, etc. is so I guess it’s just another “life is not fair” lesson but still try your best anyway. He is considering expanding the list and adding in some CSUs too just to not end up like some of the kids who didn’t get in anywhere this year. His school is not very supportive as they are so bogged down trying to get the poor students just to pass. Most of the budget goes to migrant and esl students. We didn’t even know what the psat was and he didn’t make the cut off but that’s our fault for not investigating back in 10th grade. No one took the psat in 10th which would have been good practice and apparently is “standard” in most schools. </p>

<p>At least we are involved in the process now so we won’t be totally unprepared and having a nice well-rounded list really makes me feel less anxious. He wants to start working on his apps over the summer and if all goes well these last few months with the testing, he will be ready in the fall to do the applications. </p>

<p>We found the UC essay questions online. Are they always the same each year? I also read somewhere that the common app will be available soon so he can also do that over the summer if any of the schools use that. Is that kind of the process? Are there ways to see the applications online so we can have them all ready or do you have to wait until Oct? I guess as the parent, it’s my job to compile the financial stuff and have that ready? Geez, where are the directions for all of this stuff-lol!</p>

<p>Thank you again! It’s nice to have a ray of hope and I appreciate your time. We’ll hope for the best and still be prepared for the worst!</p>

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<p>The Privates mentioned are gonna be harder than the public’s as privates tend to be more unpredictable since they can be more selective because they often pick for a well rounded incoming class. I would apply to privates as they can offer a better education than the public’s right now, but the UC’s are still worth applying to. I would apply to most of the UC’s as you should have a good shot although UCLA and Cal might be a stretch, but you never know as your scores are good. Concerning the comment on UCSB and Santa Clara, yes name-wise UCSB is better known because it is simply a large UC, however in the professional world Santa Clara has a better reputation than UCSB, and is more on par with UC San Diego, and rivals Cal in some fields. hdsjjim, not to be mean but saying SJSU educational reputation is roughly equal to Santa Clara is quite ridiculous. As calling their educational reputation roughly equivalent is like comparing a Mercedes to a bike. Santa Clara is by far a way better school. While SJSU is a very good CSU as is Calpoly, they aren’t gonna provide much of anything in terms of use as a bargaining chip at Santa Clara, the UC’s are a better bargaining chip in that case.</p>

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<p>Last time I checked, SJSU had a good reputation, at least in the engineering department. Good – not great. If I had a choice between there and a UC, I would definitely pick a UC. BUT, I personally didn’t like the massive class sizes at a UC, nor did I like being treated like a piece of paper in a disorganized stack of papers (SJSU). There’s definitely a trade-off. If I could do it all over again I would at least try for financial aid at a few private schools including SCU, but comparing SCU vs SJSU to a Mercedes vs a bike is a bit harsh. Maybe it’s more accurate to compare it to a Mercedes vs a Kia, or maybe like comparing Stanford to UC Davis (no offense to my Alma Mater). I don’t see SJSU being anybody’s dream school, but it gets the job done.</p>

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<p>Thanks Theory5 and hesdjjim, I really appreciate your views and help. We have a pretty good idea now of picking schools and I think he will apply to more schools including a few state schools, a few privates, as well as most of the ucs since he really doesn’t want to move out of CA. </p>

<p>As a parent, I have a different outlook of what would be a good school for him than he does. Even if he got into Cal or UCLA, I can’t see him happy there because of the overcrowding and giant class sizes. He is not the “cut throat” type. His classmates work in study groups and share and lift each other up so that would be a culture shock for him. I was looking more at a smaller school with smaller classes and not having to share a triple room. I know the kids change their minds so much between now and next year so we are just going to look at everything and read, read, read! </p>

<p>He took the SAT yesterday and thought it was incredibly easy so we’ll see what his scores for that are but even with the top scores and improvements to his ecs, I realize now it’s like playing the lottery. Such hard work for a not guaranteed return: he has 3 aps next week, taking the SAT 2 subject tests (math 2, bio, us history) then retaking the ACT=Crazy!</p>

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<p>With a 4.0 unweighted gpa, a number of ap/honors classes and a class rank in the top 1 percent of his class at a California high school, your son will almost certainly get into any UC that he applies to (including UCB and UCLA), no matter what his test scores (and his are good). Take a look at the UC Statfinder website and run “custom tables”. Run them for California residents only, and you will see this clearly. To see this even more starkly, run the custom tables for “eligibility in the local context” which essentially means the top 4 percent of students each school’s high school. You’ll see that for kids with stats like yours, UCB and UCLA are solid matches and any other UC schools are virtually safeties. Also, I think many many schools will consider his band an excellent extracurricular activity. He should compile a list of venues he has performed at with an estimated number of people in the audience and should think about how to describe this experience in the most persuasive terms. Occidental is also a solid match but Stanford and Pomona are high reaches for anyone.</p>