<p>Thought I would spread the wealth of applicants answering questions over on TLS and LSD over to this board. I am in the middle of my application process right now...so far:</p>
<p>In at NYU, Michigan, Virginia, Duke, Georgetown, Vanderbilt</p>
<p>Dean's Scholarship at Michigan (18,000 per year) Still waiting on offers from other schools.</p>
<p>Still waiting for: Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, Penn, Cornell (no bad news yet)</p>
<p>My numbers are 4.0/172, went to a large state school on a full scholarship for undergrad.</p>
<p>Any questions about the process, feel free to send em my way.</p>
<p>Oh, and I'm applying straight out of undergrad, actually graduated a semester early, so off school between now and the start next year.</p>
<p>Right now I am leaning towards taking the scholarship at michigan and doing the summer-start.</p>
<p>My undergrad major was Classics (latin and ancient greek). I was lucky, going to a huge school was a bit of a culture shock for me (my high school was about 150 kids), but my Latin and Greek classes were usually like 5 or 6 students. So it worked for me. But my advice is just to do what interests you, and do something that you could see yourself doing if law school does not work out (for instance, I would not mind being a high school Latin teacher, or going to try to get my PhD in classics).</p>
<p>I prepped for about two months for the LSAT, but I tell ya, if I had it to do over again, I would've given myself an extra two weeks or so. I found that at the point I had to take the real thing, I had all the rules and tricks internalized, but I would still make the occasional careless error. I think I could've eliminated a few of those with a few more weeks. But overall, I was content with my score. For the record, all I used to prep was the PowerScore bibles, and actual preptests. To me, the only reason a class would be worth it is if a student did not have the ability to force him/herself to sit down with the material for long periods of time; i.e. it's money well spent if you have trouble with time management - nothing more.</p>
<p>Hah with regard to grade inflation - if law school is absolutely your goal, I really don't see any point on spending any money to go to a prestigious undergrad. In my case, I turned down Dartmouth, Cornell, Brown, and Swarthmore to go to a big ole state school. Not bashing bigtime undergrad schools at all, just my two cents - seemed to work out for me hah.</p>
<p>Let's say you wanna go to Law school straight outta undergrad, and you graduate after 4 years - do you apply during your senior year, or after? and if during your senior year, how do they calculate your gpa - based on the first 3 years only? Or do they recalculate it after you finish college or something? I've heard people usually take LSAT's end of junior year or beginning of senior year - so I'm guessing you apply 1st semester senior year and applications are due then? </p>
<p>Sometimes I feel like it would be a better idea to go to state school and save money, plus get a higher GPA..but i'm not sure I want to go to Law school, so I feel like nyu is worth it.</p>
<p>If you want to go STRAIGHT out of undergrad (ie start in the fall immediately after you graduate in the spring) then you should take the LSAT either the summer before your senior year or, at the latest, in the fall of your senior year (like I did). However, if I had it to do over again, I would certainly take the summer test. I can't say enough how important it is to get those applications in early, and more importantly, it really eases your nerves to hear back early in the process. I was lucky, applied and went complete near the beginning of December, and had heard back from three schools before Christmas.</p>
<p>They look at your GPA for however many semesters you have a GPA for. Many people send their fall grades after their apps are in (I am about to do this to schools where my app is still pending)</p>
<p>re: Harvard - Well, at one point I thought I had a shot. That thought is quickly fading away. They don't seem to want to call me for a phone interview. Oh well.</p>
<p>re: LSAT - I'm not sure if I fully understand what you're asking, but: Yes, the LSAT is very learnable, but no, I don't believe that someone that scores a 130 on a diagnostic is likely to pull out a 170 on the real test. This might sound shocking, and I only have anecdotal evidence to back this up, but I think an improvement of roughly 15 points can be expected given a good work ethic. I, however, did not see near that 15 point improvement, but that is most likely because I am a little slower than the average bear. </p>
<p>FWIW, the LSAT does really get you with nerves. It is just very tough going in to take that test knowing that it will in large part determine the next 3 (dare I say 5 or 10) years of your life. So yes, I am one of those people whose actual score was fairly far below practice test averages. So I think as you prepare for the LSAT, and take preptests, it is ESSENTIAL to develop a very disciplined routine, so that when you go to take the real thing, you won't get distracted by the gravity of the moment....not to sound melodramatic.</p>
<p>EDIT: Oh, and I thought I would share this story that ticked me off as I was bartending last night. A guy was asking me about schools, and I told him my story, and that I was leaning towards Michigan. And he made some comment about how I wouldn't be able to compete with "prestigious grads" from private schools having gone to my State U, and now going public again at UMich. I was intensely aggravated, to say the least. Not that I think any reasonable person would think this, but just a word to the wise: First of all, your undergrad will hardly matter at all in applications, and in career planning in law. Second, the idea that Michigan cannot compete with private universities because it is public is absurd. End of rant.</p>
<p>Random question...did you put the bartending job on your resume? And I get that school doesn't matter, but if you do go to a "prestigious" school does it help at all?</p>
<p>LSAT score really does seem to be the most important factor-- not which UG school you got your degree from. A 170 LSAT from a state U is going to be more beneficial than a
167 LSAT from an Ivy. My kid is in the later category- she has virtually no expectations of an acceptance from NYU and would be ecstatic with an acceptance from Duke- but she's not counting on it. We'll see how this all plays out next cycle.</p>
<p>I do think the "prestige" of the UG school may only help when you are being compared with other applicants with the same basic score. If Duke or Mich has 100 applicants with the same LSAT score, and they only have room for 15 students- the LS school may then categorize them by type of UG school- or geographic diversity- or any other category that the law school wants to increase their student population. </p>
<p>But I think most of us on these boards feel the LSAT score is the most important factor for law school admission not the prestige of your UG school.</p>
<p>I did not put bartending on my resume - I was trying to shorten it and it just did not make the final cut. HOWEVER, I did mention it in my personal statement, in a pretty big way. My advice to you, if you are in the same situation, is to put em on the resume if you have the room and it consumed a good amount of your time. It will show adcomms that you were doing something during school other than just going to class.</p>
<p>As far as how much weight a prestigious undergrad name carries, that is a huge point of debate between students. It seems to be agreed upon that you get a noticeable bump if you graduated from HYP, but below that it becomes very murky. The way I see it adcomms look at things in this order:</p>
<ol>
<li>LSAT</li>
<li>GPA
These two account for, oh, at least 75% (if not more) of your application.
Then way down below:
3: Personal Statement, LOR's, Softs</li>
</ol>
<p>I would say graduating from a highly ranked undergrad is a very soft "soft" (on the other end of the scale, TFA, Peace Corps, military experience are very hard "softs"). So I'm sure you get a slight boost, but certainly not enough of one for that to factor into your decision, if you are trying to decide where to attend undergrad.</p>
<p>I think marny's response is dead-on. and good luck to your daughter! 167 from an Ivy with a high GPA should be enough to land her somewhere in the T14. Did I read that right in that she is not applying til next cycle? Any thoughts on retaking the LSAT (not that I recommend that course at all)? And the advantage she will have is that she can apply VERY early - I cannot stress enough how much of an advantage that is.</p>
<p>Thanks JP- I think she is sticking with her score. She really has no desire to take the test again. She jumped about 15 points from her diagnostic-and scored what her "average" prep scores were. As alot of kids get nervous and score lower on the actual exam, I think my kid is inclined to leave her score alone.</p>
<p>She does have a few softs which will probably help a bit such as the Ivy degree, good GPA and she now has solid work experience in a law related field, so she is pretty confident about her prospects next year. If all else fails, Georgetown PT will probably come through (fingers crossed) and I know she'd be happy at a bunch of T15 to 25 schools. </p>
<p>But I have mentioned to her to get her applications in early. That also seems to be a very important factor. I'll start pestering her about beginning her PS sometime over the spring/summer.<br>
I'm really hoping she gets all her applications in by October!!</p>
<p>JP --Good luck to you and let us now what your final decision is-</p>
<p>Many schools with "rolling" admissions claim to give full consideration to all apps submitted before the deadline (Feb 15 for U Mich). Does submitting your application later towards the dead line decrease your chances for admission after all? Or is it just nice to have some acceptances in hand?</p>
<p>Common sense answer - every acceptance early in the cycle is one possible spot they may not have to fill later in the cycle. And from the trends I've seen, more lower numbers seem to get in early than get in late. So do those apps in September! unlike me.</p>