Law Career Alternatives

Parents Forum
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<p>S is a sophomore still searching for his "major". His strengths and interests include writing, public speaking, advocating for people/groups and sports. Ok, now sure if the sports fit in here, but he truly LOVES sports! He is taking a couple of classes this semester that fulfill gen eds, but also are on the pre-law curriculum.</p>

<p>We have heard over and over - don't be a lawyer! I think we get that message! Seems that the field is saturated and apparently lawyers are worked to death for little glory/pay?</p>

<p>He is talking with career services at his school, but thought I'd ask the CC audience - what alternative careers/jobs would be in this arena WITHOUT law school? Looking for some specifics occupations/types of jobs (instead of "have him major in political science"). He really needs to be able to "see" a particular job - to hear about, know about the type of tasks, etc. to picture himself doing it.</p>

<p>Suggestions?</p>

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<p>Also, I know that paralegal is an option - not sure of the job responsibilities, if much/any client contact, nor the likelihood of a decent salary of this position. </p>

<p>He is at a small liberal arts school. There is a pre-law major option. (But I have also heard that not really necessary to major in pre-law even if you are planning on law school).</p>

<p>Also any ideas for places to focus internship possibilities in this field (not specifics, but kinds of places) would be appreciated.</p>

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<p>Law schools do not require a specific major or course selection.</p>

<p>Indeed, “prelaw major” (whatever that is) and criminal justice major students are the two lowest scoring major groups on the LSAT. The highest scoring major groups are physics/math, economics, philosophy/theology, international relations, and engineering. The popular-among-prelaw-students majors English and political science are in the middle of the pack.</p>

<p>As far as jobs go, most students graduating in the humanities and social studies majors do not get jobs specific to their majors (there are not that many art museum jobs for art history majors, for example). You may want to look at the job titles for students with various majors in career surveys like these:</p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm&lt;/a&gt;
[Graduate</a> Status Report - Career Services - Cal Poly](<a href=“http://www.careerservices.calpoly.edu/content/student/gsr_report]Graduate”>http://www.careerservices.calpoly.edu/content/student/gsr_report)</p>

<p>and see if your school has similar survey results available.</p>

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<p>You have to advance pretty high to make decent money, but if you can get by the first few years, there are a lot of jobs in the Human Resources area that would be good for your son. If you are at a big company, you have a lot of contact with others, can advocate for employees (or not…) and can use writing skills. There are positions that involve conducting training across the company which can be fun.</p>

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<p>I would suggest sports marketing as a possibility, for the sports interest. </p>

<p>As for public speaking and advocating for people, consider politics, local government, nonprofit sectors, general marketing and public relations.</p>

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<p>There is a sports business program at his school which it is pretty well known for, but honestly, there are TONS of students (seems like 1/2 the athletes) in that program and the focus seems to be on sales which he is not interested in. His sister is a PR person and I think he is looking for something not related to those type of responsibilities. </p>

<p>So I would say (or HE would say!) NO to PR/Marketing. </p>

<p>He is taking a government class now that allows for much discussion/debate which he seems excited about. He has always been an advocate for “fairness” for all people. </p>

<p>So I would ask to concentrate on careers that are law/government/corporation based that advocate for people. Not business/marketing/PR based.</p>

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<p>Law is still a good career, but it is increasingly a popular field. If he can get into one of the top-tier law schools, he can still graduate into a good career and a well paying job. After all, all those pro sports teams and players still definitely need lawyers! If you don’t think his grades are good enough to get into a top school though, it’s a good idea to have some back ups. Law is one of those careers where a lot is unfortunately dictated by whether or not you go to a highly ranked law school (whereas in undergrad, at least IMO, the ranking is less of a central issue). </p>

<p>But at any rate, law is always a career he can keep in his pocket. He can work for a few years and decide later what he wants, there’s no requirement that he go straight to law school. And yes, he needn’t do an official pre-law option in order to get accepted to school. </p>

<p>Some ideas to think about: if he’s a good writer there can be opportunities in New Media and public service. Most government agencies, members of congress, think tanks, and other non-profits are eager to take on kids who are passionate, good writers, and have some skill with new media tools (or can at least explain what a tweet is!). If he’s able to intern and has the interest, he should look at non profits in his area of interest that might take him on to do blogging or other outreach/communications. THat can sometimes lead to a full time gig. He might consider taking some basic computer science courses to get a little HTML or other programming under his belt. Sports Marketing, as others have mentioned, could be another way to go. There are also MBA programs specifically aimed at the business of sports. In fact, getting an MBA period might be a road that he wants to explore. Following that maybe doing some kind of business consulting. </p>

<p>Advertising is another obvious one. Ad firms seem to do well and they have competitive but useful internship programs that he’ll likely want to investigate. That seems to be the road to getting hired at big firms, but he could also see if there are smaller firms in his area that might be interested in giving him a shot.</p>

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<p>The public service idea above is interesting. I can see him enjoying the climate/environment of a politician’s office, having contact with the public, etc. - one of my D’s friend’s husband actually is doing that kind of work right now (he got a legislative fellow after graduation) and would be a good resource. I know those jobs can fluctuate a lot with state/local elections, but it’s worth him looking into.</p>

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<p>I am one of those persons (I am a lawyer), who are shouting out the warning of not going to law school. </p>

<p>The problem is that most kids who are not good in science and math ultimately go to law school, because as you indicate, what else can they do?</p>

<p>They can become teachers, but that too has its drawbacks.</p>

<p>They can try to work for the big investment banks, which means big money</p>

<p>they can get an MBA, but that degree, to a certain extent, has also been cheapened.</p>

<p>But again, I strongly advise against law school. Even if, as another post suggests, your kid gets into a top law school and then gets a job at a top firm, he is unlikely to last long at that firm, and most people, even the top people, wind up struggling.</p>

<p>In fact, there really aren’t even any jobs at all for lawyers once they hit about age 30, because the big firms all want people with 1-3 years of experience, or 3-5 years of experience.</p>

<p>The people who say that going to law school is a good idea don’t understand that only about 10% of the people do well in the long run.</p>

<p>For example, I have an old girl friend who graduated Wellesley College, and then went to law school. I looked her up on the internet after 20 years. She is now selling real estate. I had a co-worker who started out at a tip top firm. Within two years, she was at a little 15 man firm, the same as me. And working 80 hours a week, even though she had a new baby.</p>

<p>Even if law school was FREE, I would advise your son not to do it.</p>

<p>Now, if he can get into at tip top law school, I admit that this might be a different story, but the example I just stated shows you that even that is not a guarantee.</p>

<p>I have a client whose grandson just graduated Northwestern Law School. He is unemployed.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>You are kidding, right?</p>

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<p>patsmom:</p>

<p>I am not kidding at all. Not sure why you would riducule my statement.</p>

<p>Kids who don’t major in math or science invariably trend towards law school.</p>

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<p>I keep hearing these remarks about law school and reading about it. I don’t know where I’m looking but I don’t see that in my area. DS got his undergrad in Criminal Justice (sorry for all you naysayers but he is taking LSAT practice tests now and prep classes and is scoring in the top ten percent). He finished his BA, and has been working in client intake for a lawyer for the past year. It’s a rough job…(lots of potential clients, lots of phone calls, it’s really in part a sales job complete with white board of stats). On a daily basis people tell him to go F himself when he tells them they don’t meet the criteria for representation. This morning he messaged me that he felt terrible because he had to tell someone they didn’t qualify for representation and he knew they really did have medical issues but not severe enough).<br>
He will go to law school somewhere and I am confident will find a job. Will it be at a top tier firm? Will he earn six figures? Probably not.
I have lots of good friends who are lawyers. Two of them went to a small regional school no one ever heard of. First one is a partner in her firm and just got a 5.8 million dollar settlement for a client. Second guy is self employed, makes plenty of money to live comfortably. He will never be in the headlines, no one outside of our area has heard of him. So what?<br>
Just like there are lots of kids whose parents aren’t on CC who go to college, graduate and get jobs there are lots of law school grads who finish and do just fine. They won’t set the world on fire. So?
Anyway, to the OP, have your son explore lots of options at this point. If it were my kid I would make sure he had some work experience. Internship or paying job…something. In my field I see lots of job seekers who have three degrees and have never worked. Not the type of employee people like to hire…</p>

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<p>We are not exaggerating about the difficulty law grads face right now. It is a very real problem and one that has been in the news constantly. Vanderbilt law grads (top 17 or so school) below the top 1/4 or 1/3 of the class are having trouble finding jobs. I am not talking about 6 figure jobs- I am talking about ANY jobs! Temple law grads below about the top 10 in the class, unless they have a connection, are not getting jobs. </p>

<p>Couple this with hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans for many of the grads. I know grads who went to top schools and did well enough to get offers, who have to take jobs they don’t want with big sweatshop firms just to be able to pay back the loans.</p>

<p>IF you want to go the law school route and can accept the fact that life at a big law firm can be pretty awful, I recommend going to the state u law school in the state where you plan to stay and do REALLY well. You will get a job, unless you have 2 heads or something.</p>

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<p>going law, but not going for the bar is a good idea for business, too. A lawyer with a CPA is +10 over an MBA. FWIW</p>

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<p>^^ If you can pay back the loans. Law school is really expensive. The corporations for which I’ve worked (as a lawyer) valued an MBA much more than a law degree for non-legal positions.</p>

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<p>MOWC, I would agree. I am encouraging DS to go to law school in the area where he did his undergrad. In fact, his current boss is an alum of his undergrad school. That school has a law school with an automatic 25% tuition credit if you did your undergrad with them. Otherwise, I want him to look at law schools where he will get some scholarship. He did that for his undergrad and graduated with zero loans. I know he will have some law school loans but he can be smart and minimize them.
Here in CA I know a law school grad who is unemployed. He has a bachelors, masters and law degree. Passed the bar. Never really worked in any professional job. Employers see him as overeducated and zero experience. He has loans. Not a pretty picture.</p>

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<p>First of all, there’s a difference between “not being good in math and science” and “not liking math and science”. S actually started out as a math major - is changing not because he’s not good at it, but he realized he didn’t enjoy it. But that is not what puts him in the “I might like law” or “the only option left is law” category!</p>

<p>But let’s not turn this thread into THAT debate!</p>

<p>Back to the original purpose…</p>

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<p>Perhaps this story will disabuse those of you who still insist in your posts that law school is a good idea. </p>

<p>Go back to the time when Reagan was President. I applied to a 15 man law firm in Newark, New Jersey. Not the most desirable job in the world. The guy who hired me told me that he had received over TWO HUNDRED resumes for the position. And many were from people at top law firms, who were obviously, on their way out, or already out. Now, what did I actually “get” by taking this job?. I got the right to work for medicore pay, around the clock, often SEVEN days a week, and always SIX days a week, from 9am to 9pm. With zero chance at advancement. And that firm was actually better than most. And back then, the economy was actually good.</p>

<p>At the same time, I had a girlfriend whose sister graduated from New York Law School. (not NYU). She NEVER got a job. EVER.</p>

<p>I understand now from a post on CC that many firms, when they are looking to hire a paralegal, now put in their ads “lawyers need not apply”. Evidently, lawyers are so desperate that they are working as paralegals. And there was the post on CC a couple days ago where a female lawyer was working as a stripper. I myself (I am a solo practitioner now) had a secretary who hid from me the fact that she was a lawyer).</p>

<p>What they don’t tell you in law school is that if you don’t make partner at the firm you are at, and you won’t, that when you hit about 30 years old, there are no more jobs for you.</p>

<p>When I tell people not to go to law school, I view that little differently than if I saw you crossing the street and were about to get hit by a truck. You would want me to warn you, right ???</p>

<p>The parents who post messages that say their kids are going to law school and that it is a good idea, are in denial.</p>

<p>I base this advice not only on my own experience, but on the experiences of countless friends and co-workers.</p>

<p>By the way, I was given this same advice 30 years ago, and pooh poohed it. To my detriment.</p>

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<p>My son was seriously considering law school so I (a lawyer) asked a lot of the regional firms in town what life was like at the firm. Some were willing to be honest! I think in our city the quality of life at the strong regionals isn’t terrible for new associates. Yes, they work a lot of hours, but they are treated well and it is nothing like the NYC firms. However, all of these firms have cut back on hiring. They ARE still hiring, but some deferred the start dates for a couple of years. They don’t only hire from Vanderbilt and Emory, but they can take from the very top of the classes at Alabama, TN, Georgia etc.</p>

<p>After about 5 years, a number of these lawyers try to get in-house positions. One young woman (with 2 young kids) just bailed off the fast-track at a top firm here in town. She was doing extremely well and would have gone far in the firm. Her husband is also at a big firm, and they simply couldn’t manage their household. She took an in-house position, but the culture of the company where she went isn’t all that great (large Japanese-owned manufacturing company), so she isn’t as happy as she expected to be.</p>

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<p>Well, I clearly have got the message that law school is not the BEST idea at this moment in time, thus this thread. </p>

<p>I would agree that I would not advise my son to take that route, especially fresh out of college and would frown upon that type of expense with not a lot of prospects. But, am trying to explore jobs with a similar focus for someone with SOME of those interests of a lawyer.</p>