<p>I don't know whether i want to go to law school or into business after college. What are the pros and cons of each? I know this sounds superficial- but I really care about starting salaries (or at least for the first five years or so)...!! i don't want to start earning six digits after i'm 30 or something.</p>
<p>also, is law school worth the 3-year time investment?</p>
<p>i'm in an ivy school with 3.5-3.7 gpa.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention- I also care about the stability of the job.</p>
<p>If you're looking to get a job in investment banking during the next one or two years, I would say to look elsewhere. The market, as you know, has been absolutely rocked recently. Jobs have dried up, current employees' positions are being threatened daily, and compensation levels are NO where near what they were a couple years ago. Moreover, given current popular sentiment and economic realities, the boom years of investment banking may be gone for quite some time, meaning no more outrageous bonuses for 23, 24-year-old junior analysts. The market will recover eventually, but you may not get that vacation home in the Hamptons as soon as you may like. </p>
<p>Law school, of course, is not a can of peaches either. It's a three-year-long investment, and unless you're at a top-tier, elite school, lucrative employment prospects are by no means guaranteed. Also keep in mind that the hours of a BIGLAW associate are often similar to those of an investment banker's, meaning they can stretch into 70, 80+ hours in a week during which a big deal is going down. Employment opportunities have also taken quite a hit, with many big firms announcing associate and support staff in the past few months. On the other hand, the market for BIGLAW will also stabilize eventually, and assuming no across-the-board salary cuts within the market, it's a good way to have a six-figure income in your mid-twenties. </p>
<p>Your attitude about earning a six-figure income ASAP could use a little toning down, though. Get some perspective. The vast majority of Americans do not earn six-figure incomes; acting as though not having a six-figure income before the age of 30 is some mark of failure or deprivation is not healthy.</p>
<p>While investment banking is definitely shedding jobs, so are law firms (both big and small) across the country. On Thursday alone, law firms announced the layoffs of at least a thousand attorneys and support staff. The fact of the matter is, it's hard to know how long this economic downturn will last, but there will be far fewer high-paying jobs in ANY field until it ends. Since many big-firm lawyers work on matters for investment banks or entities that get their money, directly or not, through such banks, the industries are highly intertwined and will rise and fall around the same time.</p>
<p>I agree with stacy.</p>
<p>agree with stacy.
seems that both IB and BIGLAW will depend on the econ situation in a couple of years.</p>
<p>I will begin my undergraduate studies in Fall 2009. I am debating whether to attend DePaul University (35k in 3 years) or Indiana University (105k in 3 years). I will be able to graduate in 3 years at either school. I am still making a decision between the two. Here is what it’s come down to for me:</p>
<p>DePaul: if I want to got to law school after grauduation</p>
<p>Indiana: if I want to go into investment banking after graduation.</p>
<p>So my question is, like koala57, is it better to go to law school or into investment banking? I’m interested in both.</p>
<p>How/why did you breakdown DePaul and IU in that way.</p>
<p>Neither school would put you ahead of the other for law school and your chances of i-banking at a reputable firm will be almost 0 coming out of either school, especially ITE.</p>
<p>That all being said if both of you are really that undecided about law school or i-banking, you probably shouldn’t go to law school…it’s for people that want to practice law…viewing it as the next step to a high salary is the wrong approach.</p>
<p>Indiana is quite good at placement for IB as I understand. If you’re doing law, go to the cheaper one and get a good gpa.</p>
<p>No, IU is not good at all for IB.</p>
<p>To bank at top firms you need to be at a top school or have connections…especially ITE I would say the only schools placing well are ivies and other tops…plus a few of the good liberal arts schools</p>
<p>Yes, IU is good. You need to do some better research. The school as a whole is good, and their business and particularly finance is even better.</p>
<p>Unless you’re willing to define exactly what a top school is in your opinion, the OP should disregard your posts.</p>
<p>BPKO you are wrong and it is inappropriate for you to tout your pride as false information to those seeking advice.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that while IU is a good school and has a strong business program, very few investment banks recruit there. </p>
<p>In my opinion a top school for investment banking is any ivy league school, any remaining top 15 ug school and the select group of elite liberal arts schools (Amherst, Williams, etc.)</p>
<p>This is not based on any bias but an understanding of the recruitment and placing preferences of investment banks.</p>
<p>In this economy the correlation is even stronger, banks are narrowing their recruiting fields to an even more select range of schools for an even fewer number of positions. You will not be in a good position to work in investment banking coming out of IU, period.</p>
<p>I think vincere’s info is solid.</p>
<p>In all honesty, I don’t see how the love of the law has anything to do with love of finance. If you like LAW and IB, then the only thing you probably truly love is money. Lol. Oh, and there is little stability in both Law and IB, but less so I think in IB than in law due to the fact that one can always choose to work at smaller firms and one cannot choose to work, ideally, in smaller IB’s (am I right or wrong?).</p>
<p>Actually vincere, I was not touting my pride…at least not in the same way you seem to be touting your presumptuousness and elitism. I don’t go to IU, I just hate the way some people on these forums act as if they are authorities and all just repeat the others, essentially stating that if you don’t go to an Ivy or top LAC, you can’t do IB, but if you do go to one of those, you are an easy-in. So here’s some facts: USNWR put IU finance top 10 nationally and IU Business 11 overall. BusinessWeek put them 20 overall with recruiter rank of 14. Job placement was given an A+.</p>
<p>Class of 2008 was recruited by BofA, Credit Suisse, Goldman Sachs, Deutsch Bank, and JP Morgan Chase, among others. 17% went to IB with average salary of 59,881 plus 10K signing bonus. Those are numbers commensurate with that year’s hiring class for Wall Street IB. </p>
<p>It is definitely not the top school for recruiting, and I never made that claim, but it is GOOD.</p>
<p>Few comments:</p>
<p>Keile, you are right: salary is definitely something that is important to me. But that is not why I chose i-banking or law. I have a genuine interest in business, particularly finance and i-banking. It is something I would enjoy doing. I also have great interest in law. Maybe not as much as i-banking, but definitely quite a bit.</p>
<p>So going back to my original question, should I go to DePaul and pay 35k over 3 years with law school in mind OR should I go to Indiana and pay 105k over 3 years with i-banking in mind?</p>
<p>BPKO you seem to have outdone yourself again with incorrect information, congrats.</p>
<p>I never stated you couldn’t do IB from IU, hell you could do IB from community college of north bum****, nothing is impossible. I further agreed with the point that IU is a good school and has a good business program. These facts are both completely irrelevant.</p>
<p>17% of what went to IB? Nowhere near 17% of undergrad biz students went IB, perhaps you are discussing Kelley graduate school. </p>
<p>An average salary of 60k plus 10k bonus is nowhere near the average IB salary for Ivy students, you are way off on this.</p>
<p>Perhaps all those “elitist” posters are repeating themselves because they are using factual data to develop opinions as opposed to your implausible rambling.</p>
<p>Owais, I think it’s a mistake to choose UG only based on what you might do after school. Things can, and likely will, change with both those industries and your own personal interests. I say choose the school that is a better fit, financially, socially, and academically; there won’t be a huge advantage by going to one school over the other for ug.</p>
<p>Show me your factual data vincere. Mine came from IU website for Kelly undergrad. </p>
<p>And another fact: Average starting salary in 2008 for MIT undergrads going into IB was $61,909. It’s not an Ivy League, but it’s just as good for these purposes of comparison to show how IU is nowehere near as inferior to your so called “top schools.”</p>
<p>I want to see your data refuting this from Kelly, not your ignorant suppositions that you seem to think stand in for evidence. Show me also the data stating that 60K plus 10K signing is “nowhere near” average starting for an ivy league analyst on the street last year. </p>
<p>I await your response. That is if it has real backup instead of misleading ad hominems.</p>
<p>Owais, you should go to the one with the career path you would prefer. I know that doesn’t really solve your problem if you’re not sure which one you want to pursue, so I guess I would say IU would leave you more options for changing your mind in the end, provided, of course, that it won’t cause EXTREME financial hardship for you/your family.</p>
<p>BPKO first of all I looked up your data and your 17% of students going into IB comes from the finance department individually, 53% of Kelley students go into Finance, meaning only 9% go into IB from the ug business school, or roughly 135 kids.</p>
<p>But let’s ignore that for the time being.</p>
<p>Looking at first year analyst salary for bb I-banks gives you an idea that your 60-70k numbers is way below what i-bankers are averaging</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Deutsche-Bank-First-Year-Analyst-Salaries-E3150_D_KO14,32.htm[/url]”>http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Deutsche-Bank-First-Year-Analyst-Salaries-E3150_D_KO14,32.htm</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/2009-investment-banking-analyst-bonuses/[/url]”>http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/2009-investment-banking-analyst-bonuses/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm[/url]”>http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm</a></p>
<p>Unfortunately the ivies dont have ug business schools and so their career placement stats are more general…typicall they place 40+% of all grads into finance with avg. salaries of 70k. Keep in mind that this includes ALL finance jobs, IBanking being the highest paying which means ibanking grads coming out of ivies are well above 70k to average out all the 50k jobs.</p>
<p>Furthermore I worked as a summer analyst at a BB bank on the street and not a single person I met or worked for was from a non top 20 or so school (if they were American). I know anecdotal evidence is subjective and weak, but anyone who works at a bank right now would agree completely with everything I’ve written in this thread.</p>
<p>IU grads CAN be ibankers but it is much harder and they will likely only land positions at boutiques or smaller firms paying below bb market.</p>
<p>DONE</p>
<p>Deutsch avg salary before bonus 65K, similar to IU.</p>
<p>your 2nd link stated “1st Years are now making $70K rather than $60K base”…that 60K base corresponds to the ~60K base at IU in the same year, 2008.</p>
<p>your 3rd link states “Starting salaries in investment banking positions with a bachelors degree after bonus (assistant or junior analyst position) range from $60,000 to $70,000”…that is actually much lower than what you were asserting, as they call this an AFTER BONUS figure.</p>
<p>I find it amusing that you have the gall to dismiss 135 kids from a single school in a single year earning on par with 1st year salaries for top banks. Of course if it refuted my argument I probably would dismiss it too.</p>
<p>And your paragraph about the Ivy salaries had no data to back it up. Neither does logic. Banks are not going to waste much extra $ on top students from Ivies just because they are Ivies. That they are top students who are good enough to get hired is all that matters.</p>