<p>I should add that it was hard for me to believe that S1 has ADD. He is not hyperactive. But he fits the profile of the kid with some deficits who manages reasonably well until HS.</p>
<p>Oh, and something I read in "Driven to Distraction" really hit home. Kids with ADD do well when there is structure and novelty. This explains his exceptional performance at CTY, where every day is tightly scheduled, all materials stay in the classroom, and the courses are taught at an appropriately high level.</p>
<p>I immediately thought ADD when reading the OP. Owlice, you say the executive function thing is on his IEP, but how are they helping him with this? Meds can be very helpful, but there are other ways to support kids with these types of wiring. It can be so discouraging and stressful to be ADD and try to get things done. I am ADD (didn't realize it until recently) and I often frustrate my hubby because I'm so fuzzy in getting things done. I've asked him to try to imagine what it feels like for me to live with my brain! I frustrate myself every hour of every day, because I feel like I should be able to do better, but can't pull it together.</p>
<p>Even so, over the years, I've gotten a BS in nursing, a Masters in Counseling and a PhD in Psychology. But I've always struggled with organization in every aspect of my life. I feel like there are little monkeys running around in my brain, making focus SOOO difficult.</p>
<p>Some of this might involve maturity and motivational issues, but I think your son could use some help. You've said he feels stressed. That might mean he does care about his performance, but can't pull it together despite his intelligence. He does the assignments but doesn't get them in. This is likely related to his disability. And he is probably feeling very stupid and incompetent because he can't perform the way his abilities would predict. Then he quite likely feels like giving up. I think a better eval is in order and the school needs to be actively helping him with this.</p>
<p>Several studies conducted show that most entrepreneurs are ADD.</p>
<p>Thanks, all!</p>
<p>bethievt,</p>
<p>S is definitely not ADD (he's been evaluated), and so far, the school is not helping him with the executive functioning. There are a few things that they are supposed to let him do -- turn in work late comes to mind -- but we haven't invoked any of that yet. (Might next week, though!) He does feel anxiety, but then, he always has. His anxiety is MUCH better than it used to be and this continues to improve as he grows and gains life experience. It's rare that he feels a lot of anxiety about school work. The social aspects of school, yes, but the work? That is rare. <em>I</em> feel more anxiety about his performance in school than <em>he</em> does!! (Hence my venting!)</p>
<p>NYMom, </p>
<p>CTY has been very good for my S. The intellectual challenge is good, but the social aspect is even more important for him. CTY was the first time in his life he'd had intellectual peers. That's getting better now, too; last year, there were a few at his middle school, and this year, there are more. (I picked him up at school on Wednesday and he was Mr. Chatterbox -- which is unusual -- all the way home. He told me he saw yet another kid at school wearing a CTY shirt. That made him happy!)</p>
<p>He's another kid who thinks homework is stupid. It takes time away from what he wants to do, cuts into his "free" time. </p>
<p>Jolynne,</p>
<p>You'd said you started focusing on your son's efforts. S's dad and I have had to do that, too. This has been a real shift for my ex, who often praised our tall child for being smart. (That's kind of like praising the kid for having green eyes, hmm? Sure, I love the color of S's eyes, but it's not as though he had anything to do with them being green!) </p>
<p>Like so many bright kids, S thinks he should be good at something academic immediately, because he always has been, and if he doesn't grasp something right away... well, he is having to learn how to deal with this. Whole new territory for him!</p>
<p>Boy, it IS good to vent!!</p>
<p>Just to look at it a different way:</p>
<p>Maybe the kids are alright, and the schools are trying their patience
beyond belief. If your child is getting near 100 on the final, he/she knows
the stuff, period. So they get a B in the class because they didn't hand
in a few pieces of paper! So? They KNOW the material. </p>
<p>We are doing them no favor by asking them to do meaningless work
after they've achieved mastery. It makes them resent work, and leaves
them unprepared for the day when they do actually have to apply
themselves to learning.</p>
<p>You have to ask yourself - why have we lost sight of learning as the
point and gotten ourselves so focussed on grades?</p>
<p>why have we lost sight of learning as the point and gotten ourselves so focussed on grades?
Agree</p>
<p>S3 could pass most of his classes without doing the homework, not A's but B's. Drove one history teacher so crazy that the next year he changed his grading system, named the new one after S3 and made homework a grade killer. </p>
<p>Not sure I ever saw the point of that.</p>
<p>Well there's no point in something being on the IEP and no help being given.</p>
<p>It's very interesting to read through this thread. In a very few short months, my son will be headed off to college. Owlice, like your son, my son is very bright with a lot of potential...if he would just do the homework consistently and review even a little for tests, he'd be an "A" student. But, he isn't. In fact, his GPA is a low B (and I'm being generous with that assessment) and his SATs are pretty average. There were a few times that I thought he might be ADD, or LD, but finally he just told me that he was just lazy. He could do the work, he just didn't want to. He finally got his wake up call. Based upon his SATs, a number of schools thought he would be a great candidate for admission; so he applied early to several schools with rolling admission or non-binding early admission and ended up deferred at every single one. Including the school that virtually everyone in our district is accepted to - a true safety. We've had episodes of wildness, too; rebellion, sneaking out, "all my friends are going", you name it. If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger (I think that rule only applies to parenting). </p>
<p>Happily, we are now looking forward to him heading off in the fall to his first choice college. What changed? When he was deferred, he realized that maybe all of my lectures, suggestions, restrictions on activities, etc, etc, etc, were really intended for his own good. Being in AP courses was a privilege; it was more than just sitting in a lecture. It was reading the book; doing the problem sets; studying for the tests; doing practice exams; doing the work regularly. The change in attitude and improved grades made the difference. He did care (in spite of what he said previously) where he went to college; he did want to go and it's because he realized he could not do what he wanted to do in life without a college degree. </p>
<p>I have two children, a son and a daughter, both raised in the same household with the same expectations and opportunities, yet they are as different as night and day. Daughter is a junior, much more academically motivated, very goal oriented. Many people have told me that my son's behavior is pretty typical for a boy; I hope his new behavior is typical of the man he will become!</p>
<p>sabaray,</p>
<p>If you hadn't done all the lecturing, suggestions, and restrictions...
there would have been nothing there to sink in. I count this as
a big win for your parenting. Even if the payoff did come a little later
than you would have liked (but apparently just in time).</p>
<p>And what is so interesting now is he reminds me regularly he must do his homework and "successfully complete his senior year" ...those magic words in the acceptance letter! Quite the reversal from me telling him to "do your homework or you'll never get into college"! He does have a scholarship tied to grades and I've told him if he loses that money, he'll have to figure out how to make it up. I am happy for him because he's a good kid- but learning from the book has never been the priority for him until now. I hope I don't end up eating my words but I think his alarm clock finally went off. Better late than never, in my book.</p>
<p>This is one reason why early visits to colleges can pay off. Hearing in the info sessions what is needed to get into these great places can be motivating!</p>
<p>Often times kids with ADD have a very poor self image, believe they are lazy, and know they could do better. Somehow they just can't quite get it together despite a desire to improve.</p>
<p>Couldn't agree with you more bethievt on the early visits- his first choice was one we had visited- problem was, he thought he was already doing everything he should! In our situation, I wanted him to visit to show him that he did want to go to college period- at that point he wasn't real interested.</p>
<p>Hey all, wanted to help the parents out here who know their kids. Some background on me:</p>
<p>Throughout middle school I never had to study, never had to work too hard, rarely did my homework, and just chatted up my eachers during class. IT was my way of learning, and after about a month of complaining that I talked to much or asked too many questions, my classmates had to just accept it. I never, ever, did homework unless it was right before class or I did it in class.</p>
<p>Freshmen year comes, same habits, still pulling A's and B's, no studying, no homework.</p>
<p>Sophmore year comes, same habits, less A's, more B's like three C's (not the average, but for one marking period I had two cs, one was in GYM because there were days I wanted to just chill and not change).</p>
<p>Junior year comes, this is where my change began, but because of things that happened in school I again stoped carring as much and was satisfied with the A's B's and occasional C.</p>
<p>Senior year comes around. This is when I did a full 180. I decided that this high school nonsense was fun but kind of dull. I had done the drinking/smoking pot thing, and while fun, wasn't a priority for me anymore. With the promise of college and more importantly better things, I could only wait for my acceptances and hope, but I also became FAR more interested in learning for the sake of it. I still don't do homework too often, but that's because we don't have as much this year and most of what we do have I actually do, my grades are STRAIGHT A's, one B, and I've begun reading and teaching myself new skills. My wardrobe changed from the urban hip hop clothes, to more business casual, "fresher" items, and my mindset changed as well.
I've been accepted to PSU, U Miami (with a grant worth over 16k and nominated for a full ride), and I'm waiting to hear back from USC.</p>
<p>I think many parents dont realize that for people like us, we can't DO homework. It's just pointless. I feel its really absurd to count that as part of a student's grade. There are so many people I have to TEACH in my class things like physics or advanced math but they have the same or slightly higher average because of something like homework, where you can get the answer from anywhere. To me, and for many of your children, homework is just busywork. I truly feel homework should be optional. If the objective is to improve the students skill live in the subject and they are already confident in their abilities, why would you make them practice something? Either one of two things will happen:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>They do know the material and they are just going to be wasting time and energy.</p></li>
<li><p>They don't and they will fail for their arrogance.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Many kids will straighten out, but you need to point out the REALISTIC benefits of going to school. I'm going to be honest, sure hearing that better job placement, more education, etc, is good, but when you are a 17-18 year old kid most of those are pretty far away in your head. If you really want to get them interested tell them about your old days in college with parties, crazy roommates, etc, but also include the positives. I think this was a MAJOR reason I became so interested in college early on because of all the crazy/fun stories my mom told me about in college and those I would hear from friends that graduated. It's convenient that some of the best "party" schools are also the top ranked, so half your job is done parents :). You just need to give your kids their own unique motivation for wanting to do well in school, not some generic reason like "you won't get into college" or, "You won't get a good job", because at 17, 30 seems light years away.</p>
<p>I would question the not-ADD diagnosis. DS got these, and then I took him to a wonderful pediatric neurologist whose philosophy was "It can't hurt to try medication." After first day S said, "I finally feel like myself." I caught it in fifth grade -- so no grade problems, straight A's, but a lot of inability to complete, hand-in homework, etc.</p>
<p>He's at a reach college now and doing quite well. He still takes medication on a variable basis when he thinks he needs it.</p>
<p>One of the things I found interesting were brain scans studies that suggest that ADD medication actually causes the deficient part of the brain to grow some.</p>
<p>I am not saying he has ADD, only that one diagnosis may not be accurate. My idea was to think that no one would want to shoot himself in the foot unless he had a problem.</p>
<p>Very interesting posts; thanks!</p>
<p>sabaray, </p>
<p>Congrats to your son, and to you, too! How early were the "early visits" to colleges? College seems so far off to S, understandably, but so near to me, also understandably, given how time speeds up with age. </p>
<p>bethievt,</p>
<p>S was in special ed schools before 8th grade. Like so many kids his age, he wants to fit in (at least some; in other respects, he definitely wants to cut his own path). He doesn't want his peers to know that he's on an IEP, and wants to be treated like every other student. I think he deserves to have an opportunity to try, which is why we haven't invoked any aspect of his IEP. A B average isn't bad, it's just not up to his potential.</p>
<p>Sometimes, I push; sometimes, I lead. Sometimes, more and more as he grows, he has to lead, and I have to back off and stay out of things completely. It's a balancing act. That's one of the things I struggle with, what I imagine most if not all parents struggle with!</p>
<p>hyakku, </p>
<p>Kids like you can do homework, though you may choose not to, of course! When you start a professional job, you will find that there are many things that you will have to do even when you think they are pointless. There's (usually! :D ) a good reason some things have to be done, and why they may need to be done may not be within your realm of knowledge; nevertheless, they still have to be done.</p>
<p>That said, I agree with you that for some students, homework functions as busywork; you and some others learn without the reinforcement homework provides. I wasn't exactly a fan of homework when I was a student, either! </p>
<p>As for motivation to go to college, S's seems to be "getting away from his parents." He finds his VERY annoying!! :D </p>
<p>geomom, </p>
<p>Yes, the learning is the thing! SAT scores can reveal aptitude, but colleges also look for effort, and that's what grades demonstrate.</p>
<p>mythmom,</p>
<p>S gets full evaluations every three years. He doesn't have ADD. He has no trouble with focus and is not easily distracted, though he does look up from whatever he's doing if he hears the word "cookies." "Ice cream" also works. I think that might be hereditary, for these words also get my attention very easily.</p>
<p>Re- homework in high school.<br>
My son had a chemistry teacher that 'assigned' homework, went over it in class, but never collected it or graded it. It was entirely up to the students whether or not they did the homework. His point was- the homework is for your benefit; if you choose not to do it and can still pass the tests, good for you. </p>
<p>Many students learned that by doing all the homework and reviewing it in class, they did well. Some learned that they could do most of the homework and skipped out on the assignments they felt confident about. Some students never learned; they looked at it as an opportunity to 'get away' with something, and didn't do any of the homework, never realizing that they were only hurting themselves. Some parents went to administration and complained. They felt that the teacher should force the homework on the kids by grading it and including it in their final grades. To them and their children, including the homework in the final grade was the only carrot that motivated them. I think it was sad- they never did get it. Their kids never got it. I wonder how they are doing now that they're in college.</p>
<p>doubleplay, </p>
<p>That strikes me as a good way to handle homework. Wish more teachers did that!</p>
<p>Hi everyone. . . so comforting to know I'm not the lone ranger with my extremely bright S who tests in the 98-99% range and has a genius IQ. He sailed through High School with mostly AP/Honors courses and still got great grades even though he turned in a mountain of work "late", lied about missed assignments and procrastinated constantly. Teachers did him a disservice by letting him turn things in late because they knew he was bright. I warned him that procrastination and late work in college will earn him zeros. </p>
<p>He insisted on going to a very competitive college and is now a junior with a 2.6 GPA. He's had to drop 2 courses already because he was failing at mid-term and has several D's on his transcript. He usually starts off each semester well and then plummets with D's and F's on exams and tries to dig himself out of the hole. </p>
<p>He was diagnosed with ADD last year but medication doesn't seem to be helping that much. He gets angry every time I even mention grades or a lack of effort. He doesn't communicate much anymore because he doesn't want to discuss grades. It's been hard. He spends a lot of time supporting his friends and doing "good" things. He says he's a good person so I should be satisfied with that. But I am worried he will not get a job after graduation if he does not improve his grades. He's unconcerned about that and thinks I'm unduly concerned. I know I need to just "chill" and let him create his own destiny. It's just so hard! I wish I could just let go and not worry about him so much!</p>