Lazy group member - let him burn?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Hi there, </p>

<p>In one of my upper-level courses, we're currently working on a group research project, and one member has sincerely contributed NOTHING so far. Seriously -- I don't think he even read the assignment description. I have 2 other group members, and we're quite frustrated/stressed and are not quite sure how to proceed. </p>

<p>Last week, I started a Google Doc where we could put our research, I wrote out an an agenda of what we said we should plan to get done each day, and I even sent out an email reminder this weekend of what we agreed to have done by today. I basically tried to really make sure we were all on the same page. </p>

<p>Well, low and behold group members 2 and 3 did their share beautifully but number 4 said "I have it" but then "OH GOD. My computer isn't working. I have my summary but I can't get to it." We asked him to just verbally summarize his articles (that I provided him with since he was too lazy to find his own, mind you), and he failed miserably. We then worked on the presentation aspect together on Drive, and he just read through what we were doing and didn't contribute at all. </p>

<p>Right in the middle of class he left the room for about fifteen minutes, and during this time, we told our professor that we didn't really know what # 4 was doing. He assured us that he'd talk to him after class and handle it, but he has talked to him earlier in the semester before and nothing has changed. </p>

<p>So, our presentation is in exactly one week, we need to have a collective set of summaries and reviews, and we need to have a presentation encapsulating everyone's research. 3/4 of it is in-progress, but we don't know if # 4 will do anything. </p>

<p>I COULD nag him some more, email him instructions, work with him one-on-one and make sure he gets his stuff done, but SHOULD I? Our prof said his work would not affect us, but our presentation is incomplete without the extra articles and sources. Also, this guy is a senior in a 300-level course (which isn't his first) and I'm a sophomore in my 2nd 300-level course. I don't think it's right that he should be riding on my coattails, and I'm seriously getting angry to think that he's trying to. </p>

<p>With the situation being that my professor knows who works hard and will be fair with us, should I just do my part and let this guy burn? We can't force him to work, and why should we do it for him? Are we going about this the right way? </p>

<p>Thanks for your insight.</p>

2

<p>Let him burn. </p>

<p>He’s had more than enough time to realize he hasn’t done diddly-squat.</p>

3

<p>^^^^^^^^Yup! </p>

<p>Ridiculous to have to put up with that.</p>

4

<p>There are a lot of ways to “handle” this. How does it improve group members lives if this guy burns? Against that, what is the possibility other group members will be marked down for failure to generate team cohesiveness? Keep in mind that people who do NOTHING have well-developed capabilities for avoiding blame. </p>

<p>JMHO of course.</p>

5

<p>My concern is that the professor won’t be able to tell who did what and won’t be able to give you the credit you deserve if this guy steps up and presents your work. Can you structure your presentation so that each group member is presenting primarily the work that they have done? And make sure he knows this is how it will be, so that hopefully he will do something to avoid standing up with nothing to say. You shouldn’t have to do his work or babysit him. But all you have is your word against his as to how much he contributed–is there a way to make clear what portion of the project each member did?</p>

6

<p>Do the other team members feel the same/similarly as you do about the shiftless 4th member?</p>

<p>If so, go as a team to update your instructor that the previous “discussions” aren’t having any meaningful effect on improving the 4th member’s lack of work ethic/contributions to the group project.</p>

<p>Document all instances of your own contributions vs his lack of contributions. I’d also bring up the fact he’s a college senior as if I was the instructor, I’d certainly take that into account and grade him much more severely for this behavior. </p>

<p>Also, if you’re using google docs, are there logs of who collaborated/logged in and length of time/activity logged? If so, this will definitely help in the documentation department. </p>

<p>You have my sympathies as shiftless/slacking team members are a pet peeve of mine. </p>

<p>Fortunately/unfortunately, I didn’t encounter this personally until I started working after graduation. Fortunately, my supervisors were wise to their game and they either shaped up or were terminated. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Unless this is an undergrad business management type course with a jerky or irresponsibly non-confrontational Prof, the Prof shouldn’t hold the 4th member’s inability to get his s&^t together and make meaningful contributions to the group project against other members who have made most/all of the meaningful contributions.</p>

7

<p>i agree you should speak again, as a group, to the professor, to let him know that things have not improved. You should also document as well as you can who is contributing what to the process. </p>

<p>I have to disagree with cobrat on the senior thing. I wouldn’t hold a senior to a higher standard than anyone else. I would not mention that to the professor; it’s not pertinent. His behavior is unacceptable regardless of his year in school.</p>

8

<p>

</p>

<p>I brought up the senior status as that was the practice of some Profs I’ve had at my LAC and a summer course I took at an elite U. </p>

<p>Reasoning is as a college senior with 3 years of college behind him/her, he/she should certainly know better about figuring out what’s required to succeed academically in a college course. And he should certainly not be stiffing his/her other team members by not making much/any meaningful contributions and thus…expecting them to carry him with their work while he’s goofing off. </p>

<p>You do have a point that it may not be a good idea for the OP to bring it up, however.</p>

9

<p>Do his part. Don’t complain to the professors before presenting.
After presentation, tell the professors that you WORRY about his ATTITUDE. Not as a complaint.</p>

<p>My two cents.</p>

10

<p>This is why I hated when my kids had group projects in high school…apparently it is no better in college. At least you have the assurance of the professor that this student’s efforts/results will not effect your grade. I would talk to your professor one more time to make sure this is true. If it is, then let that partner do “his part” and get the grade he deserves. You are lucky if this is true…college senior engineering son has had several projects where the end result (no matter what was done individually) was the grade. If this was the case here, I would say do the 4th part.</p>

11

<p>My suggestion would be for the team, in this case three of you, to do all the work and do a knock out presentation. If member #4 is suppose to do some presentation, let him do it, but if he should fall down during his presentation, step in to cover him and answer questions on his behalf if he is not able. After the presentation, send the professor a hard copy of the team’s presentation with a simple note to let the professor know member #4 didn’t do his share. What I wouldn’t do is to have the presentation be subpar or incomplete because of #4.</p>

<p>In real life, when a team is working on a project, it still needs to be complete whether there is a weak link or not. The non contributor would be dealt with later. </p>

<p>My older daughter was an intern at an investment bank few summers ago. During the summer, interns were assigned to group projects. Each group had a research topic, as part of evaluation each intern was asked to present their project. D1’s group had one guy who didn’t want to do any work, very similar to OP’s case. People were pretty angry at his behavior because they were all busy with their day job, and when this guy refused to his share of work, it meant others had to do more. Of course, the weekend before the presentation, this guy emailed everyone in his group to ask for a copy of the presentation. D1 asked me if they should give it to him and if they should inform their manager about his behavior. I told her, “Just email it to him. If he hadn’t done any work, he won’t be able to answer any questions during the presentation.” It went as I predicted. His presentation was the worst. Other than what was on the PPT, he couldn’t answer any questions asked by the hiring committee. D1 and one other guy did most of the work, it really came through during their presentation. Both of them were hired.</p>

12

<p>Over the years, I have heard so many stories from my kids about group members who did not contribute. Throughout K-12, they did entire group projects themselves because their teachers made it clear that the whole group would be graded … not the individual members’ contributions. They were told that “in the real world, you have to work with all kinds of people.” Well, in MY real world, people who don’t do their jobs shouldn’t be in those jobs. Anyway, it continued on through college, even at the top school D attended (although it wasn’t that common there to have students who didn’t carry their weight). My friend actually quit her MLS program because she was tired of the useless group members she kept getting stuck with. It makes me mad, but it’s the way things are. (I was really lucky in college - my peers worked their hind ends off.)</p>

<p>My advice in this situation is for the other group members to pitch in and complete this guy’s work. After the presentation, let the prof know what happened.</p>

13

<p>Some ideas:</p>

<p>Tell the lazy student that he is kicked off the team. He may complain to the teacher. But now you are making it his problem, not your problem.</p>

<p>Or tell the professor that you are kicking him off the team.</p>

<p>Have your PPT in 4 parts. Leave the last part blank unless the lazy student gives you something. A person goes over each part and then you had it over to lazy and wait for crickets.</p>

<p>Here is this issue from a professors point of view. [Project</a> group summarily fired problem member](<a href=“Chronicle Forums”>Chronicle Forums)</p>

14

<p>I think you’re going to need to just do the 4th member’s part, but let him know that you’ll be doing this and that he is no longer part of the team. Tell him today, so he has time to cobble together his own presentation, if he is so inclined.</p>

<p>This isn’t “letting” him burn. He’s doing this to himself. You’re just doing the work you were supposed to do, and then some. Do not blame yourself for consequences that another person has brought on himself.</p>

15

<p>Fascinating link, bopper. Those professors have figured out how to actually empower the students, rather than punishing them for someone else’s inadequacy.</p>

<p><em>IF</em> the rest of you have the time at this point, I’d do his part of it, prepare a great presentation, and leave him out of the presentation. The three of you can present your work, which will in fact be the whole thing. Since he did nothing, he has nothing to present. </p>

<p>You would be justified in just leaving a gaping hole in the final product, but since it sounds like it would negatively impact the effectiveness of your part, I wouldn’t do it.</p>

16

<p>Thanks for all the advice! I knew you all would have some useful things to say. </p>

<p>I think you all are right in that we need to just do the presentation ourselves. It sucks, but group members 2 and 3 feel exactly as I do, and we’re all the kind of people who like to do a thorough job on things. We have our articles and our bases, and I actually already read part of #4’s articles (since I found them for him), so I think/hope we can present it just fine. (I just don’t know where he’ll be able to jump in/talk if we make all the slides…) </p>

<p>However, as far as the individual parts of the project (we have to combine all of our article summaries/reviews), I should clearly NOT help him with this, right? This is where we are graded individually, and this is the “hard” part of it. If I walked him through writing his summaries, that’s like I’m basically doing his work for him, which is in plagiarism territory. </p>

<p>I get that he might not understand the material as well, but it shouldn’t be my problem to bend over backwards to help him when he’s done nothing but screw me over. (end rant)</p>

17

<p>No, you should not write anything for him to hand in.</p>

18

<p>No, you shouldn’t help him where you are getting graded individually. My kid didn’t help the lazy person with his presentation. She just emailed him the group’s presentation and it was up to him to present it to the committee on his own. Since he didn’t do any work, when the committee asked him any in-depth question he was not able to answer.</p>

19

<p>Do NOT help him anymore! You’ve done more than enough to get him started. You are only responsible for your part. If he doesn’t understand the material, that is his responsibility. He made a choice not to work on this (laziness isn’t the default attitude, it’s a CHOICE) so now he will reap the “benefits” if his stupid decision.</p>

<p>Your conscience should be totally clean because you did not make him do this.</p>

20

<p>bopper-- thank you SO much for that link! Now that I’ve read it, it’s got me wondering if maybe we SHOULD do something more drastic.</p>

<p>I emailed everyone again this morning, detailing that # 4 failed to do X, Y, and Z and that the rest of us practically put together the bulk of the presentation, and I was greeted with crickets (and I’ve been checking Google Drive and seeing that he hasn’t provided the missing information he promised to upload). We’re all supposed to meet tomorrow, so I’m assuming he’s gonna try and come up with some sob story again. This time, I think I’m going to be the stern group leader and tell him that he’s done nothing while we’ve done everything and that we’re going to tell our prof that we don’t want him getting credit for our work. </p>

<p>Even if he provides some sloppy, last-minute nonsense for his articles and suddenly starts trying to help, I don’t think it’s fair that I’ve been doing most of the work the past 2 weeks. It’ll be easy to make slides now that I’ve got everything organized and laid out, so it’s truly ridiculous and unfair. </p>

<p>Like that thread on the Chronicle says, if he were an employee in the real world, he’d be fired long before now.</p>