LD and Ivy league/top LAC

Parents Forum Learning Differences and Challenges - LD, ADHD
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<p>My child has ADD and has been receiving 50 % extra extended time in school, College Board and ACT testing. With this her grades have been very good and she is considering trying for the top colleges. Has anyone any experience with any of the university's Office of Disability Services? We were not planning on disclosing to the colleges prior to admission.
Testing is up to date and includes WISC and WIAT tests. She has also taken courses at local Community College and receives extended time there as well. </p>

<p>We are especially interested in the Ivy League Universities. Daughter would like to apply to one ED, but we are concerned about her being accepted, applying to no other school and then not receiving the necessary accommodations. Has anyone knowledge of a student who received accommodation by both CB and ACT subsequently denied by a University?</p>

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<p>Time to determine whether your daughter will receive accommodations is during her application process, by checking with “Student Services” at shortlisted schools to discuss your daughter’s specifics. If your daughter recently received accommodations for SAT Test, then likely she has disability paperwork to obtain accommodations. But only way to confirm is to discuss this with officials making that determination at each of her desired schools.</p>

<p>I am aware of college students who received ACT/SAT “extended time” accommodations (back when standards were somewhat more lax) but didn’t receive “extended time” at their college because they didn’t have adequate ed-psych reports to confirm need for academic accommodations. These were students who had IEPs in HS, but not independently-procured formal reports. A HS-generated IEP alone is usually insufficient. Student Services offices often post their “diagnosis-confirmation” requirements on their schools’ website. (“Doctor’s letter” is insufficient; most schools are expecting formal neuropsych eval report that includes specific psych tests.)</p>

<p>Schools don’t deny admission to students w/LDs. I suspect Admissions doesn’t even discuss applicants with Student Services folks. There’s no negative consequence for disclosing LDs. Frankly, as a prospective student (and parent-of-student) you want confirmation of a warm welcome and an empathetic response before you arrive on campus in Fall. I’m a parent, and I checked in at every school. Our student went to Student Services at ED school, to confirm requirements and accommodations too.</p>

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<p>Hi! Check out the thread “To tell or not to tell” in this section. My son recently went through this process and I wrote a couple of fairly lengthy posts about it. He disclosed his LDs and will be attending Brown in the fall. Also had a full ride to Duke. Let me know if you have some other questions. Both Brown and Duke seem to be very accommodating. We also had discussions with other schools. We will know better about Brown in the fall.</p>

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<p>Hello Happykidsmom. May I PM you? I tried to but it says you have exceeded your private message quota and need to clear some space.</p>

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<p>As another poster noted, I have heard good things about Brown in this area.</p>

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<p>I got accommodatioms ny both CB and the ACT. I was denied at 3 schools. My essay was about my LD and how it has made me a better person. The way I see it if the college denied me they were not going to have a large and supportive LD office. I got into a top LAC, and will be attending this fall. Some colleges like Brown and Boston College have a separate admissions committee for students with LDs. But you must disclose the LD.</p>

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<p>Just a quick update: DS has been in school at Brown for almost a month now. He doesn’t even have his official accommodations in place yet because he has been busy getting his feet on the ground on campus (has his meeting with SEAS tomorrow to work those out). However, we have been amazed by and grateful for the “accommodations” his professors have been willing to put in place for him individually while they awaited his official paperwork. Aside from the accommodating environment inherent in the Open Curriculum/Pass-Fail culture of Brown, professors seem very willing to trust students and give them the benefit of the doubt while the official paperwork is making it through the channels. So far, we are feeling pretty lucky to have found such a welcoming landing spot. DS qualified for quite a few accommodations in high school, both in and out of the classroom, including extra time on tests, reduced workload in some classes, use of a computer for all work, etc. After talking to quite a few students with similar LDs to his, we are optimistic that Brown will implement what he needs to be successful. :)</p>

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<p>Also, Shawbridge has excellent insight as to various Ivies’ approaches to accommodations. You might want to contact him. His kids took different approaches on their apps than my son did (my son disclosed, though didn’t write an entire essay on the topic, while I think his DD disclosed and his DS did not, maybe?). Anyway, he did a lot more “scoping out the scene” for LD services prior to applying than I did and I feel that his insights on the various schools were pretty much dead on. The ones he said wouldn’t be hip with my son’s LDs if we disclosed didn’t accept him. The ones he said were more accommodating either accepted or waitlisted him. So, pretty good track record. ;)</p>

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<p>happykidsmom, I am particularly good that Brown is going well. I don’t remember what I said (advanced age) but I am a researcher. </p>

<p>parentalunit3, happy to share advice if that is helpful. </p>

<p>ShawSon had to disclose as we structured HS in response to LDs – he did partial homeschooling in HS. He needed to explain why his HS looked like it did. ShawD did not disclose. In both cases, we talked with schools post-admission and pre-acceptance to get clear commitments about what they would do (and, in some cases, would not do). ShawD transferred and did some of the same on the transfer.</p>

<p>ShawSon is unusually extreme on both the gifts and deficits. So, he asked for more accommodations but with the accommodations, his ability to succeed is high. We placed a high priority on curricular flexibility. Interestingly, although he has never been shy about a) acknowledging his LDs; and b) asking for help from the school and others, he has turned down requests to be in a documentary or an article talking about successful kids with LDs, until now. His college’s public affairs office did an article about him at graduation time describing his interesting post-graduation job (CEO of a software company). In it, ShawSon acknowledged his LDs and said that he chose this school over others based upon the commitment the Dean made to him and that it had worked out extremely well. The article then discussed his outstanding academic performance. A magazine/newsletter (?) focused on people who are gifted and have LDs is writing a profile on him. So, he’s now comfortable talking about it more broadly.</p>

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<p>Hi chiming in bit late here. First college tends to be easier for 2E kids because most professors, as the above parent stated, are trusting of the student and are more than willing to accommodate. Also the nature of work and how classes are structured is different so some kids find they don’t need as much support or quite the same amount of accommodation as they needed in HS. Professors regularly post syllabi, large lectures are often video-taped, readings are posted at the start of the semester giving kids who are slow plenty of opportunity to get ahead, and professors are available for extra help.</p>

<p>So then the next thing to consider is where? You mention that you are particularly interested in the Ivy League. Rather than looking at a “Brand” of college or looking for name recognition I would sit down and seriously think about your child’s interests and also their learning style. Ivy League schools are not necessarily the best environment for every student. There are plenty of downsides to an Ivy League education.</p>

<p>Depending on what your child wants to major in and what their goals are you might want to look at variables such as 1: Size of classes (especially introductory classes) 2: Opportunities to do research and work on projects with professors 3: Do graduate students teach classes 4: The availability of extra curricular opportunities such as music.</p>

<p>BTW, I agree that disclosure is not a bad thing. </p>

<p>Finally remember that college is a starting point, not an end point. These days many kids will need to go to graduate school, so the goal is to go to a school that will allow your child the best chance at being successful and doing well so that they are not burnt out and are excited to continue advancing their education.</p>

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<p>happykidsmom, I mean to type, “I’m particularly glad that Brown is going well.”</p>

<p>StacJip, I always said as we were going through the travails of elementary, middle and private schools and then college was that my goal was to help my kids be successful in life. My aim was to enable them to get the training and positioning that would help them succeed in later life. Getting to an elite school and not doing well would be a bad way to go. Relative to college, the college admissions process is deadly for kids with LDs because college admissions officers have so many applicants that they are unconsciously looking for reasons to reject someone. So, to play in the top tiers, you have to perform well at everything.</p>

<p>Going to an elite school was good for ShawSon but would not have been good for ShawD as they have very different career aspirations. In her field, eliteness may make some, but not a lot, of difference.</p>

<p>It is also worth noting that not all colleges are equally good depending upon what your kid’s issues are. Schools with serious core curricula like Columbia would be deadly for most kids with dyslexia. A school like MIT or maybe Swarthmore (do know it as well), where kids revel in how hard they are working and in effect, are talking about the volume of material they have to master, might also work poorly for some kids such as those who take a while to process (but could work very well for others).</p>

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<p>Of the Ivy’s Brown is probably the best for accommodations and all-around acceptance and willingness to support. I have heard that Yale is also good. Penn is at the other end of the spectrum. </p>

<p>For small LACs, the Claremont schools are unbelievably great for accommodations.</p>

<p>A good test is: once accepted, immediately contact the appropriate office for learning disabilities and accommodations and send them the necessary forms and your Psych/Ed report. Include a list from the current school of current accommodations. You should get an immediate response. </p>

<p>Beware of math departments. They are somewhat notorious. Try to speak with the department chair about accommodations, particularly use of calculators, formula sheets and extra time. </p>

<p>Even in a hostile environment, you can find professors that get it. Seek them out (you’ll want to do this anyway).</p>

<p>It never ends and it’s never easy.</p>

<p>My last thought is this: There is a lot of effort by schools to push students with disabilities to “advocate for themselves” because they are no “adults.” This is a fantasy. Because they have repeated it so much, schools believe it. As yourself: “what have you accomplished all by yourself?” Everyone needs help, particularly with advocacy. It’s a political process. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington was fiction; see e.g., Ted Cruz. Stay involved; and remember: This is America; if things are not going well, you can leave and regroup.</p>

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<p>If any of you who posted on this thread are still out there, I would love to ask more questions of you.</p>

<p>My son has multiple learning challenges but I cannot see us affording to pay for more testing once my son gets to his four year college. The WISC and WIAT are just too darn expensive.</p>

<p>The College Board was kind enough to take scores that were a little bit over 3 years old and recently, in combination with some other documentation, took scores that were 5 years old.</p>

<p>My son receives time and a half, breaks as needed, and just got keyboarding. He has a myriad of issues: diabetes, vision disability (that may improve now that he’s had surgery), hearing loss (not severe and his aid helps), math disability, low processing speed and writing disability (reason he got keyboarding) and well-controlled depression (will never disclose this).</p>

<p>My question: If he’s interested in engineering and might be applying for competitive colleges such as the Claremont schools and others, assuming he can get his math over 700, should he ever disclose his math disability?</p>

<p>He has a history of very large discrepancy between math reasoning and math calculation. (On the WIAT, he had 98%ile in reasoning and 14%ile in computation/calculation)</p>

<p>He’s made up ground (got a 690 on Math SAT last year in his sophomore year), but math is not easy for him. He just got a B in his first community college math class, trig, because he bombed the final.</p>

<p>He gets time and a half at the community college but opted not to use it for his midterm or final. I don’t know if it would have helped.</p>

<p>What do you think? Would it be the kiss of death to reveal the math disability as a potential engineering major?</p>

<p>His time and a half and breaks on other sections come from his diabetes and vision disability and those, obviously, are well documented and current. The math disability was diagnosed 4 or 4 1/2 years ago.</p>

<p>His current SAT is 2090 and he hopes to get it over 2200 (PSAT was 215) when he retakes it in January. Of course, he still needs to take the SAT II Math II and Physics if he hopes to be competitive at a strong school, and that may be the deciding factor if he can’t get over 700 on the Math II.</p>

<p>Any advice on this would be appreciated.</p>

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<p>My advice would be to disclose. Visit and speak with people in the Engineering departments (professors and department heads) and with the student support folk. Explain your concerns about testing costs and see if they will work with you or if they have suggestions. Maybe they will do the testing? Keeping secrets can bite you later; conversely, a good program takes pride in its ability to accommodate. I think the Claremont schools will surprise you. Apply to all of them; they are a consortium allowing students to take courses at any and all of the schools.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the feedback, Bundini. I hope we can visit the Claremont schools this spring. The two that would be of interest would be Mudd and CMC. For CMC, his scores are at least in range now and they do have either a physics major or a 3/2 engineering. For Mudd, he’s got to bring the scores up, but I do know they really understand about students with disabilities. </p>

<p>I really like the idea of contacting engineering departments rather than bringing it up to admissions. Great suggestion!</p>

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<p>Is he in a public high school? Can’t they do the psych-ed re-testing? We are in a small, rural special-ed co-op and I consider them waaay behind the times on a lot of things, but they were aware testing must be within 3 years to qualify for college accommodations. We declined and we went the private testing route. If I couldn’t have done this, I would certainly have done it through the school.</p>

<p>D is a jr. and we’ve been meeting with disability offices as we tour schools.<br>
The first part of all of their speeches is that testing must be within 3 years. Transition to college has issues for “normal” kids. I’d try to do everything possible to make sure documentation is up to snuff.</p>

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<p>My son is a private homeschooler and part time community college student.</p>

<p>Guess we’ll see how these last three semesters go and then make a decision about retesting in his senior year. Perhaps my dad will again help pay for the testing. He paid for it all the first time 4 1/2 years ago.</p>

<p>For now, his documentation for diabetes and vision disability is current.</p>