<p>I put this article on the Forum on April 18, but no one responded. Perhaps this group might find it more interesting.</p>
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see what I don't understand is why they changed policy to allow the fact that accomodations were given to be withheld from colleges.
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<p>Because they were being sued and this was the way they settled the case. An explanation: <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/press/article/0,3183,11360,00.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/press/article/0,3183,11360,00.html</a></p>
<p>tsdad, The comment in the article about 84% (I believe) of those with accommodations being white is interesting. Is if possible that in certain cultures disabilities tend to be denied, or hidden away, possibly as something shameful? Even though, child find exists, it is possible that schools do not identify students with learning disabilities if parents refuse to sign for testing, or do not persue accommodations in school, or on sat tests. Perhaps this might also be a factor as to why 84% of those with accommodations are white. I could be totally incorrect, but it is just another explanation, rather than the one about rich folks gaming the system. Also, if thosewho do not have learning disabities received extra time,and then were to only increase their scores by 5 points, then why is the test timed?</p>
<p>In many school districts white children who have difficulty in the classroom get diagnosed as learning disabled. Black kids with similar problems get diagnosed as retarted. This has been a major civil rights issue and was the focus of the Department of Education early on in the Bush administration. Internally this was referred to as "overrep," which meant the overrepresentaion of minority children in special education programs. The downside to being in special education, and having a label as a slow learner, is that it is near impossible to get out of special ed. You are taught and treated as if you are mentally deficient and that's the expectation for you. It's an expectation that the student and his/her parents accept and the student performs up or down to that expectation. There is also an "underrep," which was also the focus of the government's concerned. This referred to the underrepresentation of minority children in gifted and talented programs.</p>
<p>There is another issue here that people on CC may not be aware of. Many parents want their children to be diagnosed with a disability because it can bring in checks from the Social Security Administration.</p>
<p>Tsdad, Yes, I have read that information. Additionally, our district has a 35% Asian population, and very few of these students receive accommodations/special education services. It is my belief that because of cultural differences, these student's learning disabilities are simply not identified in school.</p>
<p>Regarding 504 plans...... the "substantial limitation" requirement is the wild card. The Office of Cival liberties has declined to define "Substantial Limitation" and has deferred to the granting institution to define this. Court cases that I've read (tsdad probably can find most recent info on this) have used "passing from grade to grade" as a benchmark for whether there is a substantial limitation. So according to these rulings a student (no matter how bright) who passes all of his classes with a minimum score (65 in most states) can be legally denied accomodations even if diagnosed with a "disorder" such as ADD. In our state (NY)our principal can grant test mods such as small group extended time, use of a computer for lenthy writing on all tests other than SAT, AP, ACT, etc...for you NY staters out there principal mods can be granted on Regents tests also.</p>
<p>Its the Office for Civil Rights. </p>
<p>I think what csdad is saying is that under 504/ADA OCR will accept a school district's determination about whether any student is disabled. If so, that's correct providing the proper individuals are consulted, the proper evaluation is made, parents are allowed to povided their information, and the parents are permitted due porcess to appeal the decision. There must be a relationship beween the imput and the output.</p>
<p>Parents of LD kids beware, the rules change when you hit university....there is no rule requiring the university allow accommodations which allow your student to reach their potential. The standard is much lower and in many schools it basically rules out accomodations for kids unless they are physically handicapped. So, that bright compensating kid who had been getting extra time will need to learn how to function without it. This is not nesc. all bad, but it would be nice to know ahead of time and to know that private and smaller schools tend to be more generous in continuing the HS level of accommodation than big publics. If your child is LD, be sure to ask about the qualification details in each school you are considering, it is not consistent.</p>
<p>Someone is correct as to her general statement but very wrong as to the specifics. She is correct that legal requirements imposed on colleges by 504/ADA are different than those imposed on school districts. The differences are based on the concept of FAPE; Free Appropriate Public Education. FAPE applies at the elementary and secondary level because children must be in school; no one has to go to college so the requirements are less.</p>
<p>The attached OCR pamphlet explains the differences quite well. Please read it.</p>
<p>It is by an attorney with the US Dept. of Education and explains the difference between the accomodations in primary / secondary schools and college.</p>
<p>The author has served for over twenty years as the chief regional attorney of the San Francisco office of the U.S. Department of Education, Office for Civil Rights and is a nationally recognized authority on the topic of disability and higher education. He founded the disability law course at the University of Californias Hastings College of Law.</p>
<p>Thank you TSdad, I knew the info, but did not recall the technical terms.....as I have seen it, some smaller & privates CHOOSE to allow more accommodations that required by law, some publics go by the law. I have seen many people surprised by this and it would be good to ask the questions when comparing your options.</p>
<p>3dad, your article is good reading too!</p>
<p>What I'm really trying to say is that there is a misconception that if a student is diagnosed with ADD, Depression, BiPolar, or if an evaluator says they have an academic disorder in reading, math, writing, language, etc. it does not automatically quailify the student for a 504 plan. The granting institution must conclude that the "impairment" substantially limits a major life function..in the school setting it would be learning. The standard for determination is not "the student could do better on a standardized test if they had accommodations"...which is what many believe.</p>
<p>I know Paul Grossman well, he is an outstanding attorney, was a frequent sounding board, and is one of the real gems in OCR. </p>
<p>Csdad you are correct. Having a disability is one thing. Having a disability that needs an accomodation is quite another thing.</p>
<p>And for all of you who are sending children with disabilities off to college: you can pay the money for the tests; you can make the contacts with the college disability office; but, you can't make your kid actually use the academic adjustments. So if you think that it is important that they take advantage of academic adjustments you need to make sure that they take advantage of those academic adjustments. Good luck with that though.</p>
<p>I'd like to thank all my repliers for a lively & helpful discussion. The input was not too far from my expectations; many of my suppositions were confirmed; others were clarified, & some new info surfaced. Thank you also to those who kindly PM'ed me. I continue to see that the segment probably most challenged is the segment represented by my D: the highly performing student of high intelligence who appears so mainstream but who manifests significant setbacks in timed settings due to clinically apparent reprocessing hurdles. The measurements & judgments about who should be entitled to accommodation continues to be flawed, i.m.o. Add to that economic disparities, & my D is even more marginalized. However, we know that life is not "fair" or equitable. The world & our individual communities are filled with people that refuse to be impaired by their impairments. My D tends to embrace challenge & risk, but hopefully she will do so in an informed way in college.</p>
<p>tsdad, you've been very helpful throughout. I only slightly disagree that it's up to us parents to see that our children (in quotes!) seek out whatever accommodations or other aids are available in college. For me, that's the point: (1) I'll be in no legal position to do that; (2) It will be impractical for most parents to follow that; (3) she will be even less inclined to share her academic progress in college than she is now -- if that 's possible. </p>
<p>This is why I'm hoping that she'll make some prudent choices with regard to the college search, & why I wish that the standardized testing were not in itself such an eliminator of some of the smaller colleges which might serve her needs.</p>
<p>Hi! I just want to add that I just came across a "new" college guide that I think may be helpful. "America's Best Colleges for B Students" by Tamara B. Orr The publishers website is <a href="http://www.supercollege.com%5B/url%5D">www.supercollege.com</a>. (Check bookstore tab) The copyright is 2005 so the info is pretty recent. This book came to my attention after my college search- but I checked it out and want to share it with this audience. I liked it as it had all types of schools listed. It covered alot of the same schools as Colleges that Change Lives (? the Lauren Pope book) but it also has a lot of large & public U's listed in it. As an example, 2 of the schools my d applied to were listed- George Mason as well as Temple & and some schools in NY area such as Marymount (in NYC) and Adelphi. For each school listed, there was a section on academic support programs that were available at each school- so you may find this book helpful too. And best piece of advice I can pass along- Take the ACT test if your kid is not doing well on the SAT. My d scored an equivalent of 130 points higher on ACT with very little prep. (I think the SAT prep course wore her out) and she did not find this test as "mind numbing" as the SAT.</p>
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tsdad, you've been very helpful throughout. I only slightly disagree that it's up to us parents to see that our children (in quotes!) seek out whatever accommodations or other aids are available in college. For me, that's the point: (1) I'll be in no legal position to do that; (2) It will be impractical for most parents to follow that; (3) she will be even less inclined to share her academic progress in college than she is now -- if that 's possible.
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<p>Under the 504 regulations, elementary and secondary schools have the legal obligation to seek out and identify students with disabilities. There is no such requirement at the postecondary level. In college, students, or initially their parents, must approach the institution through the disability services office, identify themself as a student with a disability, provide documentation, and request appropriate academic adjustments. Depending on the school it may be up to the student, or depending on the type of academic adjustment needed, the disability service office, to inform the professor of the needed adjustment. Many school put substantial responsibility on the student to deal with their professors because they want them to advocate for themselves. They see it as part of the maturation process for students with disabilities many of whom have been totally reliant upon their parents to advocate for them.</p>
<p>Thanks, marny. Regarding the ACT vs. SAT, I am increasingly inclined to favor the former over the latter.</p>
<p>tsdad, I'm aware of all that, regarding the responsibility of the college student. Nor could it be any other way -- for all the reasons I recently mentioned. I was filled in several months ago on the differences between the LD student of elem./sec. standing vs. college standing, and the various legal differentiations as well (also earlier mentioned by yourself, somemom, etc.). But again, this is precisely why the choice of college can make an appreciable difference for the LD student. First hurdle is finding colleges with support services, period. Second is being admitted to those. (!) Third is proactively utilizing whatever support services do exist, which can only be from the student's initiative. Admission -- just admission -- to a support-providing college is one of my 2 primary concerns. A college environment whose features (size, etc.) do not negate or seriously compromise whatever individual supports are available, is my other concern. The other aspects are up to the family, pre- and post-enrollment, to take control of. Those have never been aspects I expect others to solve for us.</p>
<p>Footnote on my "second hurdle," above. Colleges who purport to be LD-supportive to a significant degree, to have particularly active services for them, who make a big deal about that being a primary feature of their campus, should i.m.o. step up to the plate and be SAT-optional for students who have documented LD in timed settings. That should be true even if that students was discovered "late" to be LD -- as long as the measurements can be verified,have been completed by qualified evaluators, & are appropriate to the processing in question. It should be true even if that student was never officially, legally accommodated in h.s. due to loopholes, OR due to general high school policy/resistance, or in some cases h.s. incompetence/ignorance. Individual colleges & U's are not required to sign on the CB policy of a 2-yr history -- whether those colleges are public or private. They can, & should, develop their own policies for <em>admission</em>, as well as for accommodation.</p>
<p>I am beginning to believe having accommodations is not worth the hassle. Jr son was signed up to take the SAT in April. School couldn't find anyone to proctor the exam. So we reschedule at cost to us for May.
We think we are all set. The counselor finds a proctor. We are set for the day and time. Tommorrow am. Counselor calls this morning. The school has lost the exam. She has been frantically searching for 3 days no one in the school knows where it has gone. The collegeboard will not send a new exam because the school signed for it. They are also saying they won't send the june exam till they get this one back.
The school is lucky I am such a patient person
But it is so frustrating!</p>
<p>mom60, we are duly warned. And I'm not nearly as patient as you. I was frustrated enough about a year ago when we faced unnecessary bureaucratic hurdles with D#1 (<em>not</em> LD) -- regarding dates, times, registration mixups, communication blunders, inaccurate mailings, on & on. Probably no worse than many have experienced, & certainly not as bad as the massive test score fiascos of last fall, but it was enough to make me "lose it" with CB on one occasion, & chew out one of the higher-ups after losing my patience. Additional stress is hardly what an LD student needs, so I thank you for the post. I would be "happy" (relatively so) with three separate seatings as an option for the 3 separate portions of the test. That alone would be enormously normalizing for an LD student. It would have to be paid for, a fee I would gladly shoulder. I do know that the proctor issue is significant, & is the main reason that SATs have not been scheduled between early June & late August. I asked CB about this; they claimed that they can't find proctors. My feeling is they haven't tried hard enough. There are enough underemployed teachers in summer to handle such an overflow.</p>