Nobody delved into anything. UCBAlumnus is right, a member of the frat leaked the emails. No university official went and snooped on students computers.
Somebody in this thread said that the fraternity should lose its charter over this. I’m glad the University hasn’t done that, and I don’t think it should.
Take it out of a frat context. 6 buddies who all live together on an off-campus apartment send these emails back and forth, and call a nearby empty lot Palestine among themselves. What, precisely, should the u “do” about that?
What are the specific politically correct points of view that everyone must adhere to? Is it ok to poke fun at something? And if so, can you tell me how MLK Fried Chicken differs from Borat’s throw-the-Jew-down-the-well or which-gun-is- best-to-kill-Jews scenes? MLK fried chicken doesn’t advocate violence, last time I checked. Should U of Chicago ensure no students ever watch, listen to, laugh at Borat or similar comics?
Borat is a wealthy, educated Jewish comedian mocking the extreme views of anti-Semites (and very rarely mocking Jews themselves). The anti-Semites he’s mocking by and large live in other parts of the world than he. He does his mockery in character, on film, in clubs, very rarely cheek by jowl with the objects of his scorn.
The AEPi boys are relatively wealthy Jews mocking much less privileged African Americans who live right in their neighborhood. That’s much touchier, in really bad taste and for good reason.
I’m aware Borat (or rather, the comedian playing him) is Jewish and that it is satire. I also agree that there are poor optics surrounding celebrating MLK Day with fried chicken and so forth, and I sure wouldn’t urge my son (who was also in a Jewish frat, though not AEPi) to do stuff like that.
I guess I’m just asking where one draws the line, esp with what were intended to be private communications. There’s a difference between being offensive privately and publicly. I would have a different personal reaction if AEPi put up a sign to the campus community saying “Come celebrate MLK Day with us with a fried chicken meal at our house” or similar.
Seems like when a member wrongly attributes an inflammatory comment to another member, there should be at least an “oops, my bad!”
I said suspension, say 6 months ban from campus activities. No going overboard. Unpleasant, but no permanent damage.
How about if 6 buddies not affiliated with a frat do the same thing in private email. Suspend them too?
@ClassicRockerDad Six months is one-eighth of their time on campus, one-sixth if they spend a year abroad. Why not just expel any students who refuse to recognize the right to free speech, even speech they disagree with or find offensive?
Looks like they got suspended from Greek Week by the Panhellenic Council. I think that’s reasonable.
http://chicagomaroon.com/2016/02/09/statements-released-in-response-to-leaked-aepi-e-mails/
He said suspend them from campus * activity *, not academics.
I don’t think they should be suspended from activities. I think an appropriate punishment would be to print those leaked emails and distribute them around campus (wouldn’t work for some reasons, but humor me). They have a right to free speech, fine; but let’s see how proud they are of their opinions when they’re available to the greater public.
I mean, if they feel like they’ve done or said nothing wrong, then they should have no problem, for e.g., calling a black person on campus or on the street “the N word”. “It’s just a word” after all. Yet they resorted to using e-mails. They are closet racists - per their frat member’s words, not mine.
Maybe it can be like where our housekeeper grew up in Poland under the thumb of the Soviet Union where there were approved positions to hold on topics and you quietly disappeared if you didn’t hold them. That would be awesome.
You do realize it’s rather Thought Police-y of you to declare that private correspondence with which you don’t approve should be made public? But why stop there? If a sorority girl writes to another sorority girl that she thinks Betty Lou’s dress is horrid and she’s a real b-word, shouldn’t that be made public, too?
The conversations are no longer private. They have already been leaked by a member of the frat (whether you agree or not not with the ethics of his actions is irrelevant here). I’m suggesting spreading them further and letting the wider student body make their own judgements. You never know, some others might actually agree with their “opinions”.
Talk about apples and oranges. If this was **leaked **, I would think nothing of it, because I don’t know Betty Lou and I haven’t seen her dress. I would take issue with it, however, if the sorority girl derides Betty Lou because Betty is a)Black/Hispanic/Asian etc. b)Muslim/Christian/Jewish etc. c)American/Non-American etc.
Saying someone has an ugly dress is not like making a racist comment about them. I’m surprised there are adults in the world that don’t seem to realize this.
“Quietly disappeared” is not good enough. Stone them to death in the main square like in Arab countries.
“The conversations are no longer private. They have already been leaked by a member of the frat (whether you agree or not not with the ethics of his actions is irrelevant here). I’m suggesting spreading them further and letting the wider student body make their own judgements. You never know, some others might actually agree with their “opinions”.”
Who are you suggesting should do the spreading? Private individuals (in this case, other students)? Or are you suggesting the U of Chicago administration should print / disseminate them in their official capacity?
You seem to have a real hard time with the concept that people are allowed to have thoughts and opinions that offend you.
This is you being a drama queen. Nobody suggested making these kids ‘disappear’. The worst that was said was that they should be suspended from campus activities. Gross hyperbole does not serve your argument.
Arab countries are not the greatest advocates of free speech, but I doubt they stone people to death in a public square for being too mouthy. Jail sentences, maybe, but no stoning as far as I know.
I think students in the frat who are concerned by the racism should do it. That way, they can weed out the innocuous e-mails that are private.
You seem to have a real hard time with the concept that I have the right to be offended, if I choose to be.
Show me one post where I say the frat kids are not free to have unpopular thoughts and opinions. I said the First Amendment doesn’t give one the right to be a jerk. A poster took it from a legal point and said that yes, it technically does. Let me clarify: you do not get to claim moral high ground when you’re racist. Call black people the N word, call a barren lot Palestine (it is your right after all), but don’t be surprised when people voice * their * disgust with you.
Voicing disgust is one thing. Indeed, that’s the old-fashioned way of showing disapproval. Think a particular fraternity is racist? Don’t go to their parties. But it’s another thing to want official punishment when private communications are leaked, showing disapproved views. I would absolutely oppose any official action by the university against these guys. At a public university, I think official action against them would be unconstitutional. While it’s not required to do so, I think a private university should also uphold free speech rights. I’m not sure what I think about a punishment handed down by the Pan-Hellenic Council, or by the national of the particular fraternity. This was apparently on a listserv, so it was spread to a number of people. But how far are you going to take this? If somebody bugs a conversation between two people in which one of them says something unapproved, are you going to punish him if it’s leaked?
Re: http://chicagomaroon.com/2016/02/09/statements-released-in-response-to-leaked-aepi-e-mails/
It looks like the Panhellenic Council (sororities) at the University of Chicago chose to exclude ΑΕΠ from Greek Week.
The article does not mention any action by the University of Chicago itself.