<p>My daughter is choosing her courses for junior year this week.
She has learning differences- that fall under the category of dyslexia/dyscalculia/ADD/anxiety.
We are still struggling to have a 504 plan written that is clear so teachers can easily see what she needs to be succesful. Because her most severe problems were in mathematics, I have suggested that she have an IEP just for math, but the counselor has informed me that she is already too advanced in math to have an IEP.
Freshman year she did well, she had a support class to help with math & LA and she finished the year with a 3.7
Sophmore year, has been a struggle, she is taking math after school ( after taking math during the summer, she should be up to grade level), and while she gets Bs on classwork and homework, she has difficulty passing the skills tests. LA is fine, I don't think they demand much but she has a B. Marine Science, which is a very rigourous class and requires math she hasn't had yet, she is in between a B and C, I am not sure ( she gets scores from As to D) Spanish 2, she has a C, but her grade is brought down by her test scores. AP Euro, she has a B, which is amazing to me, but the teacher has been good at working around her testing difficulty. Photography, she has an A.
Junior year she wants to take LA AP- which I am unsure about, she isn't getting an A in LA now, and as she also wants to take Chemistry, which will have a lot of math, I think she should ease up a bit. A lot will depend on the teacher, but of course, I don't know who that will be.
She still wants to take Spanish 3, even though her psych has made the evaluation that she needs to have college language requirements waived ( she is stubborn in case you couldn't tell) ;)
She also would be taking intergrated math 3, and a tech/photography class.History she is apparently now content with taking honors.</p>
<p>So my question is
I know that the general recommendation is to take the most challenging classes and do well in them.
Her school has a large percentage of students taking AP classes, I am sure to some of her aquaintances, she is slacking if she takes only one AP class, but I think even that may be too much.
She wants to attend college very badly, and in the sciences, so I hope that she will have enough energy to get a solid foundation in chem and math, and I am going to suggest to her that she not take AP language arts.
However, even though she has obvious difficulties, she takes offense, if I suggest that the classload may be too time consuming.
Any thoughts?</p>
<p>EK--junior year is hard, so I'm with you. It's better not to pile things on too heavily, esp. if you need extra time to do things. I haven't yet learned how to convince stubborn children to do anything I suggest, though. Good luck! </p>
<p>Is there someone other than a parent who can sit down with her and talk about how much time it is going to take to do the homework for the classes she wants? If you can really pin down the amount of reading in the LA class and how much time it will take, it may help her understand what she is getting into, and how it will eat into the time she can devote to her math/science classes. Also, some colleges do not require three years of language. It might be useful to check out the requirements of some of the colleges she is thinking about.</p>
<p>I'm not a parent, and I know nothing about LDs, but I would suggest having a meeting with all of your daughter's prospective teachers. You can all (daughter, too!) talk about her needs, desires, and requirements to see how it would work out once she's in class. You should also look into whether it is possible to move up or down a level in the first weeks of school, so that she could start at one level and then change if it doesn't fit her.</p>
<p>Which science did she have freshman year? I think she might be better off taking bio before the chem but that depends on which is harder at her school. Bio s a new vocab vs. more difficult math.</p>
<p>Does she like spanish?</p>
<p>What classes can she take during summer school? Are they easier than during the regular school year or more difficult since she has to squeeze more material in a much small time interval?</p>
<p>Does she enjoy LA? DS does NOT enjoy LA, but did just fine in his junior year AP Language vs. his older sis who opted for the honors English which turned out to be more time consuming, not more intellectually difficult.</p>
<p>DD#2 switched from spanish (2 years) to Latin and enjoyed it much, much more. She is now minoring in Latin in college. </p>
<p>EK, I can speak to chemistry. A lot depends on HOW the chemistry is taught in your D's school. If it's a hands-on course with a lot of labs, she may find it very accessible and the math merely an annoyance. If it's a math-oriented course that is theoretical, that would probably not be the case. </p>
<p>As for the math itself, it's primarily an ability to deal with exponential notation and ratios; if she's VERY comfortable with those (some math students are more comfortable with such abstractions than others), she won't find the math onerous.</p>
<p>My suggestion: if there are more than one chem teacher, talk to them and find the teacher with the most lab-oriented approach, and ask that your D be in that class.</p>
<p>I think dmd77's assessment of chem is good. Another characteristic of chemistry that affects many girls, not counting LDs, is that chemistry is easier for kids who are good with spatial reasoning (which in general comes more easily to boys).</p>
<p>MStee is right too--junior year is nasty. Even the most gifted of the best of the best complain about the work and pressure, assuming they aren't coasting.</p>
<p>I think KWK is gently saying what I am thinking, though.... and that is it's time for a heart-to-heart with DD. EK you know this--At her age it is not uncommon for kids to feel a lot of pressure, from inside and out, to be the same as others. But every kid has strengths and weaknesses, and it doesn't make sense to row against the tide. Why Spanish? She loves the language, or she's bound and determined to conquer this obstacle? So she has difficulty with math, but likes science? There are options--geology, geography, biology are all less math intensive (although biology is becoming more computational every day). </p>
<p>If my math/science gifted kid was required to spend his elementary and secondary years in an educational system that focused on art and music, with all tests given in performance in front of others, you can bet he would be at the bottom of his class. That wouldn't mean he wasn't smart, or didn't have contributions to make to society as an adult.</p>
<p>I quit here: I don't want to lecture because you are such an insightful poster on these fora that I know you know what I'm saying. It's just hard to see it when it's so close. Best wishes, Laurel</p>
<p>I think the recommendation to take the most challenging classes is aimed primarily at those applying to the most selective colleges. Many other colleges, including some very good ones, are not so picky. I think it is important to build a record of success in high school, not only for the track record but also for the self confidence that will come from success.</p>
<p>Our son is/has ADHD and dysgraphia. When we approached the school about getting a 504 for him freshman year they said that his grades were too good and they didn't believe in granting accomodations freshman year because almost every kid has problems adjusting to high school. We did get him a 504 in the middle of sophomore year, which has helped formalize the accomodations he was getting from teachers unofficially.</p>
<p>Other posters are right in describing junior year as tough, as you probably know well from your experience with your older D. I think 1 AP would be good, as there is significant evidence that exposure to AP classes in high school increases success in college. I think the choice of which class to take AP will depend on your D's interests and the particular teachers who teach the specific classes.</p>
<p>I agree with dadx3. We've run into each other on several threads so I think you know by now that I have a background in special ed. While it's easy to get caught up in the how many APs can I possibly take race, many colleges don't look quite as hard at this. There are kids who never took an AP who get into college all the time. It might not be Harvard, but they go to college. In that respect you may want to think about where she may want to go (knowing right now it could change 75 times before it's time to go) and think about how much they consider APs. </p>
<p>Finding a high school program and college for a student with learning differences is a tricky process. I hear people talk about "fit" a lot here and for these students it's especially true. They need to find the right environment. My cousin had a pretty bad processing disorder that he struggled with all through school. He started college at a large state school and ended up transferring after a semester to another state school that was smaller and suited his needs a little better. (from LSU to UNO)</p>
<p>thanks for all the support and feedback..
I did talk to her a little about the AP, she is going by rumour that the AP LA class, isn't quite as "bad" as the AP Euro she is taking this year.
I am going to find out more about the teachers who teach the classes she is interested in.
I feel at quite a disadvantage since her sister attended a different high school, with few choices of classes, if you were a junior the only choices you had were, either Spanish or French, the level of math, and what art.
There are some parents who have had 2 or 3 kids go through the high school recently, I can really appreciate the advantages of knowing more about the teaching staff and having the chutzpah to insist on certain teachers for your child.
I do at least know the head of the English dpt, and she has also taught D in her learning support class last year, so she has some idea of her strengths so I will ask her what she thinks.
But since there are apparently 3 levels of LA- AP- honor and regular, it seems that unless there is a really pressing reason to take AP, that honors should be plenty challenging enough.</p>
<p>I would like to recommend that if your D needs the IEP, push the school for one. The level at which she is performing should not matter. The issue is whether her expected level of achievement is being met and whether she could benefit from a specific accommodation or intervention.
504s can be very useful for particular accommodations but might not offer the broad goals of an IEP.
Does she have testing accommodations for the SAT/ACT? Those can be hard to come by once you are in high school but could give her the opportunity to show the colleges what she can really do.
(Very few careers require the kind of timed performance that we ask of our school children.)</p>
<p>We faced the same problem last year only with English and a Written language disability. In my son's school there are no Accelerated classes in English or Social Studies after 10th grade. You either take AP or move into a regular class.
Oddly enough, the person who helped us with the decision was a college representative from Earlham at a college fair. He pointed out that struggling in an AP course isn't necessarily the best option. Especially when merit aid at the college you go to looks at your high school GPA. From that point of view, its far better to earn an A in a regular class than a C in an AP.<br>
So for 11th grade my son dropped down to regular English and it couldn't have been a better decision. Although he is taking 3 AP classes, 1 Accelerated class and regular English, he is much happier and less stressed than last year when Accelerated English was a constant source of agony.</p>
<p>I agree with spinner. Level of performance is not the relevant criteria -- level of performance given level of ability is. Otherwise, there would be nothing for the GTLD population. Whether a student is entitled to an IEP is not a decision for the counselor to make unilaterally in any event.</p>
<p>Has your daughter been tested? You can request this. If the tests show a gap between ability and achievement you have a good argument for an IEP. (Of course, good arguments and getting the schools to follow the law are two different things. I ended up homeschooling my daughter because I wanted her to be educated then and there, not after a protracted lawsuit.)</p>
<p>If you don't have accommodations at the school, I am fairly certain you can not get accommodations for the SAT or ACT. The way I understand it is that they will grant any specific accommodations that are accorded at the school and that's it.</p>
<p>you can have accomodations for SAT even if they are not spelled out at school- you just have to have updated evaluation ( that is what my older daughter did- she didn't have accomodations written out at school)
But we may be able to get away without an IEP
She is doing better in class- the semester just changed and although she still has same marine science teacher- he is trying to have better support for different style learners.
Her AP euro teacher- still ahs trouble remembering she can't go to tutoring until after 7th period- but she is communicating better with him and he is impressed by how hard she works
I think she decided against Ap language arts- they offer honors and that should be plenty.
She still has to fit health in there someplace- her teacher told her she could take it running start- but I would like to know how she will have time for that- especially since her school will be moving next year- several miles north ( they are rebuilding the school)- - but all in all- she finished out fall semester very well with a 3.00 avg, and all hard classes.
I am not even going to think about the bleeping WASL or the AP test- I will just enjoy this lull :)</p>
<p>Sounds Good.
Teacher communication does seem to be the key to making it work for kids with different learning styles.
Let us know about how the school move goes. Our district is contemplating construction and I'd love to figure out how to avoid the pitfalls!</p>
<p>ek,
My son (also in WA state) did his health class by distance education from BYU over the summer. The high school guidance counselor knew how to sign up for it. Most kids take it 10th grade, but he wanted to take an all-year elective that turned out great for him, so it did work out.
Good luck!</p>
<p>
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you can have accomodations for SAT even if they are not spelled out at school
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</p>
<p>I just looked this up and it looks like you are right. I stand corrected! I should have looked it up myself rather than relying on what people had told me. By the time my daughter was going to take standardized tests, she didn't need accommodations anymore. Not that the accommodations the school ever gave her were the ones she needed ...</p>
<p>Did you find it difficult to get accommodations for your older daughter without having them at school? How long ago was this? I remember hearing in the last couple years about how CB was getting stricter. I have heard that homeschoolers have difficulty getting accommodations (or at least the process is prolonged) because they lack IEPs. The way the regs are written makes it seem like following school accommodations is the general rule and going in separately is an exception.</p>
<p>I'm glad things are going better for your younger daughter. Yes, it is amazing how learning problems can improve when the teaching style better fits the student. In our case it took making the switch to homeschooling. Now my daughter is in a selective college, unaccommodated, and doing fine.</p>
<p>"I would like to recommend that if your D needs the IEP, push the school for one. The level at which she is performing should not matter. The issue is whether her expected level of achievement is being met and whether she could benefit from a specific accommodation or intervention."</p>
<p>I totally agree on this. There is no reason that a student should not get a necessary accommodation because of the difficulty or level of a class.</p>
<p>Even with an IEP it's difficult to get accommodations on the SAT. They may give 50% more extra time. If you need 100% more, or technical support, good luck.</p>
<p>my older daughter took on SAT untimed- but she didn't really need untimed. ( spring 11th gd) The next time she took it, she took 1 & 1/2 time I think it was, and that was enough ( fall 12th gd)
She didn't have an IEP or 504.
I think I will ask for untimed for the 15 yr old, because just knowing she isn't timed, may relieve her anxiety enough for her to complete the test ( I hope)</p>