Legacies - NOT an automatic admission!

Parents Forum
1

<p>So my son is at a top 40 LAC. When people hear where he's going, they usually say, "That's a great school. What lead him to look there?" because its small and about 250 miles away. When they hear that DH and I both went there I get the semi-smug, "Oh, so he's a double legacy...." which implies "so THAT's how he got in." This irritates me to pieces. DS's SAT math was in the college's mid-50% range and his SAT reading & writing were ABOVE the range. He graduated top 5% of his hs class. Now he has finished one semester at LAC and earned a 3.9 GPA. He was clearly qualified to excel at this school, and he is doing that. But people assume he got in because of us!</p>

<p>I have a friend whose daughter is a double-legacy at BC. She's a sophomore with at 3.9, but people still say (to the mom's face), "Oh, she's a double legacy, that's how she got in."</p>

<p>I know this is petty and it shouldn't matter, but it bugs me. Maybe I should post it in the "Say It Here and Get It Off Your Chest" thread....</p>

<p>Does anyone else get the same response when people find out your kid is a legacy?</p>

2

<p>It's natural response. Legacies DO get a boost. He likely did get in because of you & your H. In today's admissions environment there are tons of kids like your son who are clearly qualified to excel, yet they are denied. The difference between them & your son is the legacy advantage.</p>

3

<p>On the other hand... legacies are often denied too. I don't think there's any sense in trying to figure out why some kids get in and others don't; stats? ECs? essays? athletes? URMs? legacies? connections? letters of rec? musical talent? a great interview? just good luck and a kindly admissions officer having a good day? who knows? </p>

<p>Glad your son is doing so great! Don't fret about comments like that. People are real oafs sometimes. Even really nice people. I think college admissions makes them crazy for a little while... a mild seasonal insanity. (I expereinced it too!) After their kids are well past this strange crucible most of the reasonable ones come to their senses. ;)</p>

4

<p>I'm a victim of both stories. I'm a legacy at Colgate but was REJECTED for freshman admissions. It was very embarassing for all of us because Colgate really values its family traditions- they have so many legacies running through families. But when I applied again, I got in and the admissions rate for transfer was 15%. So you can probably assume that it was the legacy status.</p>

<p>I have met a number of Colgate legacy among my peers. Though none of them say it aloud, I'm sure some of them think "Oh man, she got in because of her daddddd...." But really, all of us came to Colgate because we wanted to be here not because our parents could get us in. Also I don't think when my parents talk about their Colgate connections people automatically assume this legacy bias because my parents brag about me as a student/person first and then they find out about the legacy status. Then they're proud of me for my own accomplishments but not because it was helped along the way.</p>

<p>If anything, I really think that the whole legacy attack tends to be against much, more competitive schools like Harvard, Princeton, Michigan, Amherst, etc. I'm sure Colgate will be on the list soon...</p>

<p>So you can say that sometimes legacies do get rejected for no good reason and yes, those schools face anger from its alums (as they did from my father). On the other hand, sometimes the legacy doesn't get factored in as much because the applicant has already accomplished so much that s/he doesn't need that special status.</p>

5

<p>Well, we hear it because of my daughter's race. Decades ago, when my sister applied and was accepted at Cornell, our neighbor said she only got in because of her race. None of our neighbor's 4 daughters ever went to college; they weren't studious at all. My sister had a straight A average, had a 730verbal SAT (on the old scale-- that's 800 now), played piano for over a decade, was editor of the yearbook, and I think in student govt. But it was all because of her race...</p>

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<p>Perhaps the advantage of legacy is that you won't be auto-denied in admission process. That means your application would be read and duly considered. And then there is legacy and there is legacy. Like everything else in this world :-)</p>

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<p>We hear the same thing because of our daughter's sport. Yes, she was recruited, but she also had the gpa and test scores to get in without her sport. No one wants to hear about that part. When people say, "Oh, she got in because of her sport," I reply with, "No, actually she got in because of her pretty smile..." ;) They look so confused after that.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
When they hear that DH and I both went there I get the semi-smug, "Oh, so he's a double legacy...." which implies "so THAT's how he got in." This irritates me to pieces.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well it does happen, you can't deny that. The legacy status certainly didn't hurt the application (although it's impossible to know if that's what made the difference in the end). At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters so far as you're concerned is that he got in. </p>

<p>If you're so concerned about the response you get when telling people he's a double legacy then maybe don't be so forthcoming with that info. You can be frustrated with some people's response to that situation, but you can't control what they think (especially when such opinions are often based in fact).</p>

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<p>Some parents just go absolutely frantic when they learn that another person's kid got something special that their kid didn't and have to justify their own parental abilities. It's immature and rude.</p>

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<p>I think legacies have it lucky because they don't have to mention their legacy status unless they want to.</p>

<p>URMs wear their status on their faces. That has to be harder.</p>

<p>(By the way, one of my kids is at a college where she is a legacy.)</p>

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<p>I think URMs and athletes (can) get a much bigger boost in the admissions game. Several years back my paper published the stats of accepted students of different races. It was amazing -- URMs had mean scores hundreds of points below the other races! (And this is a highly-regarded state university system.)</p>

12

<p>Ah, don't sweat it. It's just envy. There's so much of this because elite college admissions have become a holy grail.</p>

<p>D at Barnard gets snide looks because that means she couldn't get into Columbia and is somehow sub-par.</p>

<p>S is at Williams which no one ever heard of so that means he's not very bright.</p>

<p>Oh, and each works hard and no one has a 3.9. They both have massive grade deflation. See! I can be defensive, too.</p>

<p>My point: Congratulations on your wonderful son and don't worry about the yahoos.</p>

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<p>"I think legacies have it lucky because they don't have to mention their legacy status unless they want to. URMs wear their status on their faces. That has to be harder."</p>

<p>Marian, I hadn't thought of that but you are right.</p>

<p>Actually S was probably more helped by the fact that he lives further away from a college where 2/3 of the kids are from 3 neighboring states. I also didn't mention that he was accepted at several other "good" schools and offered generous merit scholarships, so I think he'd have gotten into Alma Mater on his own anyway. No merit money from Alma Mater, although his friend from the same hs with similar stats was offered a merit scholarship. We think Alma Mater figured DS would come with or without money due to family ties, and it looks like they were right! </p>

<p>Ironically, the legacy came in more on our part than the college's - he wouldn't have even looked at Alma Mater because it was further away than he wanted to go, but we thought looking at a school we were familiar with would be a good starting point and DS was open to that.</p>

<p>DS knows 3 kids whose last names are on buildings at Alma Mater, and yes they are related to the buildings. Needless to say DH and I don't fall into that category! The student who won the "Outstanding Graduate" award when DH & I graduated had the same last name as 3 buildings and a chaired position on campus, and had relatives on the Board of Trustees. That aside, he was a strong student, a campus leader, and was at least as qualified as anyone else to receive that award - in fact, I bet there were people who did NOT vote for him based on his family name. So... </p>

<p>DS doesn't tell other students that his parents are alum unless it comes up in conversation. DH went to see a (club level) sporting event DS was in, he met some of DS' teammates. He told them he was DS's father but did not mention that he was a member of the same club team way back in ancient days of yore. </p>

<p>DH and his brother were both in the same frat at Alma Mater; DS has yet to visit that frat and shows no interest in following in dad's footsteps, although they'd have to automatically admit him as a legacy. We haven't done anything to notify the frat that DS is a student; frankly I hope he doesn't pledge. If he does go thru rush I doubt he'd even mention his dad & uncle.</p>

<p>On a different note, DD is in 10th grade, and says she'll feel like a "wierdo" if she doesn't go to Alma Mater like the rest of the family. But I'm not at all sure its the right place for her. I've told her repeatedly that she can go wherever she thinks is right for her and it might or might not be Alma Mater.</p>

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<p>It's a drag, but I really do believe that the boost that most legacies receive is that when two equal candidates are sitting side by side they pick the legacy. When you do the percentages it looks like a big boost, but in reality most legacies are pretty darn qualified.</p>

15

<p>If "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree", then schools are right to look at legacies. If parents, grandparents have succeeded in the school, the basis for their children succeeding is solid. Yes, I know, not all children of successful students happen to be good students, but if they are qualified, even in the bottom 50% of stats, then the schools will look at them seriously. Similar to filling an open position at a company, there may be hundreds of qualified candidates, but many times, the position is filled by referrals. Still legacies only form a very small percentage of the applicant pool. Think of the hundreds of colleges out there that have been around for generations. If each allowed legacies in just because they were legacies, then there would be very little room left for other applicants.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I think URMs and athletes (can) get a much bigger boost in the admissions game.

[/quote]

[quote]
When you do the percentages it looks like a big boost, but in reality most legacies are pretty darn qualified.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you folks look at the data (I know, don't confuse me with the facts...) you would see that 1. the legacy boost at some colleges is as big as the URM boost. Athletes vary, but often benefit the most. and 2. While legacy admits are "pretty darn qualified", so is everyone else admitted (OK, maybe not some of the athletes. :) ) The legacy boost has been documented to be huge, not just a "thumb on the scale" between otherwise equally qualified candidates.</p>

<p>Having said this, why the defensiveness among legacy parents? Keep in mind that the variation of qualifications within a class is far greater than the difference between the legacy cohort and the non-hooked cohort. </p>

<p>Besides, no matter how a kid gets in, s/he gets the same education, the same benefits, legacy or not. And post graduation, no one need announce that they were legacies!</p>

<p>URMs do have perceptual challenges others don't. I well remember a former co-worker a few years ago, african american. He was always frustrated by his perception that he had to be better than his white counterparts, and that, when people saw his successes (former naval top gun aviator, director of marketing at a fortune 100 company etc.) they thought it was because of race, not skill.</p>

<p>I found it food for thought.</p>

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<p>Lafalume here is a sligtly different approach to you question. When they ask, "what led him to look there?" you could answer it differently. You could say something about how he had heard of it, did some research visited the website and was intrigued and finally visited in person was impressed. Wrap it up by saying he is very happy and doing well. All true. Your close friends know both his parents are alums but no one else needs to. </p>

<p>Don't you think that a lot of the "where is your child going and why" talk seems to be self serving on many parents part? They don't really care about your kid they just want to see how theirs compares. You can opt not to buy in. If they later find out that your kid was a double legacy who cares you at least didn't have to deal with the condescending looks and comments.</p>

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<p>It's not the reality of a legacy advantage that I take issue with (though I agree that kids of alum are going to frequently qualify on the basis on intelligence, exposure and opportunities) - it's in the rudeness that someone has to assume or infer that your child is not otherwise qualified. There is a big difference between talking about legacy advantage in the abstract and talking about one's specific child. That is a leap of logic that is unfounded since people have no clue as to whether or not a <em>specific</em> kid was qualified to beat out every other applicant under consideration, even without the hook. </p>

<p>That said, it would depend on the context of the remark, but I would not necessarily take offense if all the person said was that your kid is a double legacy. He is! People may not have meant anything by it at all aside from remarking on the continuation of a family tradition. So I wouldn't assume the worst there - if it were me, it would be a judgment call based on considering the source, my instincts, how it was said, etc. But yes, if people are straight out saying "That's how he/she got in" I don't think there is any question that it is rude.</p>

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<p>Little Muffy's dad and I both went to colleges that are uber-competitive now (not then). I don't know where she's applying next year but we are now dealing with the mindset of other friends and family that if Little Muffy DOESN'T get in to _______ as a legacy she must be a moron or a sociopath.</p>

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<p>Well, frankly those friends & family members are the morons. It's not as if the increased competitiveness of college admissions has been kept a secret. It's constantly being covered in the news. The truth is, Little Muffy will have an advantage over kids who are equally qualified. At some schools, the advantage is huge. All the legacy families should ask themselves this: Would you trade away that legacy advantage so you wouldn't have to bear the sometimes rude comments of others? I really doubt it! It's a small price to pay for a nice hook.</p>