<p>Are great-grandparents and grandparents considered legacy? Or just your parents?</p>
<p>Your parents count.</p>
<p>But what if your parents didn't go there, but your great-grandparent and grandparent did?</p>
<p>Then I guess you're not a legacy.</p>
<p>Oh blah, of course he's a legacy. This school favors families. Perhaps your older family members won't hold as much sway, but if you mention them, it will likely help. It's not like the school says, "Everyone in the family went here except the parents, I guess that means he has no real connection to the Notre Dame family." During Frosh-O they mentioned a fourth generation Domer. Having grandparents who went here is a big deal too...</p>
<p>Of course, Notre Dame will definitely factor in grandparents.</p>
<p>The person asked if he was a legacy, so I just answered according to the person's question.</p>
<p>That's all...</p>
<p>Legacy is a quantifiable factor, with stated enrollment goals. Both when my daughter and when my son applied, I got a letter from the admissions office, stating that the admissions office had a goal of 25% legacy in the incoming class. My son's year, the class ended up being 22% legacy. My daughter's class is still pending RD decisions. Judging by the stats, they won't take a legacy student just to hit the goal, but it definitely puts a student into a different category. To tell you the truth, I was pretty floored when I got the letter the first time, which outlined the goals system. I thought, at first, they'd confused me with the 99% of alumni other than me, who actually have money. They also stated that, in addition to going through the regular review process, all legacy applications are personally reviewed by the director of admissions.</p>
<p>Other Notre Dame ties are certainly a plus--whether grandparents, siblings or whatever. But legacy is a pretty major factor that changes the application process itself. Legacy is, as they define it, a parent who graduated from ND..</p>
<p>That post really angered me.....</p>
<p>to have a quota for legacies? That seems like extreme preferential treatment......too extreme</p>
<p>ya family blah.. family is a main component of ND blah</p>
<p>But, how great of a family is it if they constantly try to keep everyone else out? - that was harsh.. but being a non legacy.. .these are my feelings</p>
<p>They also stated that, in addition to going through the regular review process, all legacy applications are personally reviewed by the director of admissions.</p>
<p>are you kidding? I'm I the only one who thinks this is unfair. your stats and your essay and your ECs should be the first component measured on a legacy-blind process with all other applicants. </p>
<p>and if they have two applicants with exact same profiles and one is a legacy and one is not... then I understand giving the spot to a legacy.... but purposely separating the legacies away from the regular applicants seems absurd to me.</p>
<p>DD states that a legacy is a quantifiable factor..... uhh... more like overwhelming and somewhat unfair</p>
<p>Of course, if I were DD... i would be ecstatic that they give such special treatment to my children. They will be able to Expierence as good as an education as I was able to expierence. </p>
<p>Just for the record though... many legacies dont need any special treatment to gain entrance, including both of DDs children.......
but, im sorry, I really dont think its fair</p>
<p>Yeah I know. It should be 50% legacy. As it is they admit 3x as many nonlegacies as legacies. That's completely ridiculous. </p>
<p>j/k</p>
<p>Seriously though, don't worry about it. It kind of bugs me too b/c it seems like there is a double standard so you don't really know if those legacy kids really belong here or not, but all the ones I've met so far seem up to scratch. It's nothing you need to be worked up about.</p>
<p>ya I know... but i feel like I'm already at a disadvantage BEFORE I even apply... which is hard to swallow</p>
<p>I like the sacrasm tho putschcasusbelli</p>
<p>I would always put down any connections you have to ND, but I do believe admissions when they say they will only look at your parents for legacy and will not factor in grandparents. Too many people have connections to ND!</p>
<p>As for feeling like you are at a disadvantage before you apply, you kinda are chillin, I am sorry to say that. However, I think once you are here you will come to accept it and understand it. You will see, it is just part of Notre Dame. We take care of our own, and that is part of it. It stinks if you are trying to become part of the ND family, trust me I know, but without it this place wouldn't be ND.</p>
<p>Unlike a lot of institutions, ND is actually very up front about the legacy issue. As a private institution they have the right to use "hooks" as they see fit. It seems to work for them. And, as long as they are being honest about it I really don't have a problem with it. If you don't like it, don't apply.</p>
<p>I say this as a parent of a non-legacy, non-hooked applicant who has 2 uncles and a grandfather who graduated from ND. She will not be considered a legacy and will have a more difficult time getting into ND than a legacy student would. But, we knew that when we started this process.</p>
<p>M/F "count" as legacies, and they do need to meet the standards but I am sure there is some slack...... I have heard of many students who did not get accepted with either M/F ties.Interestingly enough my great,great great ..... uncle was the first football coach at ND Frank Herring......... My daughter still got waitlisted (she still laughs about trying to tie that info in to her letter,and yes at the time we felt the same about legacies but now that she is in she can help her S/D provided they meet the acceptance standard of the day.............. Work hard don't give up and it can happen Good Luck.</p>
<p>I feel the frustration of those on the legacy thing, however, as Irish said, it is what makes this place what it is, and also let's admit it, they are at least, being honest about it. Other places surely take legacy into account, they just don't tell anyone! </p>
<p>On the "others in the family" thing...my daughter had the legacy going for her-her father is an alum, but she also had my father as an alum as well. We tried to figure out how to get that in the application as there really isn't any place to put it, but felt that it was important to show family connections on both sides. Also, my dad was such a Notre Dame man (deceased in '86) that it was in a way, a tribute to him to put him in that application for the grand-daughter he never knew...Anyway, we got it mentioned in that last "anything else you need to mention" part of the application! Daughter tied it into her last comments! And, she was accepted EA. </p>
<p>My thought is this-it may not help, but it sure can't hurt!</p>
<p>grandparents and great grandparents have been out in the market for longer so likely would have donated more money...... take from that what you will.</p>
<p>Their application only asks for brothers/sisters at ND and they consider parents. This was also explained by the ND college reps. who also told us that they bother/sister connection wasn't counted as much as the parent.</p>
<p>I've commented on this one before. Judging by the statistics, it isn't a matter of legacies getting some preferential quota treatment, but rather a matter of, in the event of a tie, the nod goes to the legacy. If it were a quota, driven by numbers, rather than a goal, driven by a concept (that of wanting continuity in the university's mission and message), the admissions office would always hit the 25% mark it would like to have. </p>
<p>Yet, it never does. That tells you something right there. Just as tie goes to the runner, it also goes to the legacy. </p>
<p>Thank you, chillin, for pointing out that my two oldest children, one an ND soph, one a admitted student who will be attending next year, would have been admitted regardless of legacy status. All of their stats were in the middle to upper ranges of the accepted student pool, their extracurriculars were actually beyond the scope of the typical student. Their essays and recommendation letters were exceptional. </p>
<p>Alas, there were rumblings amongst their high school classmates that they "got in because they were legacies", which can be quite frustrating. What I've repeatedly told them is that they know what their profiles were, they know they got in because of the people they are and the things they have accomplished. Bottom line is, regardless of how others may disparage it--envy can be a nasty thing--they will be attending the university in the fall...and that's what really matters. They belong there, and they know it.</p>
<p>A few key things to remember about legacy. One, actively seeking to keep continuity in the student body by keeping continuity through family trees is an important way to retain the university's very unique mission. </p>
<p>Two, just because someone is a legacy doesn't mean they are automatically underqualified and in need of a favor to gain admission. By and large, smart people spawn some pretty smart kids. I'd love to see the statistics of legacy profile; most notably, how many legacies admitted are in the upper ranges of most, if not all, of the admissions criteria...I'd bet it would be the majority.</p>
<p>I can understand resentment about legacy, if it is a factor you don't have in your toolbox. Remember, though, that when blanket statements are made about legacy admissions, it can deride the accomplishments and worthiness of the vast majority of legacy students who would have gained admissions to the university regardless of their family ties.</p>
<p>Besides, chillin, as I've told you before--you are SO IN!!!!! Goodness, young man, trust this old lady on this one, okay! :)</p>
<p>""""""I've commented on this one before. Judging by the statistics, it isn't a matter of legacies getting some preferential quota treatment, but rather a matter of, in the event of a tie, the nod goes to the legacy. . """"""""</p>
<p>*** Oh yes we have talked about this before.. many times I believe.... and Im completely fine with your second sentence</p>
<p>"""Besides, chillin, as I've told you before--you are SO IN!!!!! Goodness, young man, trust this old lady on this one, okay!"""""hah,,, I hear you dd</p>
<p>The obvious resentment over legacy admissions is something that will be ever present, but I am not one to judge who is "qualified" enough or not to attend ND. At my private highschool.... legacies are basically a sho-in....while for non-legacies its actually pretty competitive</p>
<p>I am a third generation at my school... and although I didnt really need any help getting in.... it was nice to have the extra cushion</p>
<p>"""""Remember, though, that when blanket statements are made about legacy admissions, it can deride the accomplishments and worthiness of the vast majority of legacy students who would have gained admissions to the university regardless of their family ties"""""</p>
<p>Thats not what I was trying to say.....
Trust me, if I was rejected but a legacy was accepted with maybe less impresive stats... I would be the first one to congragulate them... good for them......why get angry, did that legacy personally do anything to me? no</p>
<p>The idea of preferential treatment for legacies does not bother me, but when adcoms go out of there way to accept legacies over qualified regs... then I think thats going a bit to far ( I dont even know if this is being done to that extent- but having quotas kind of suprised me)</p>
<p>hmff... Mike, when you sending in the adoption papers?
haha</p>
<p>That's what I'm saying--there are no quotas. There are goals, which are considerably different. Quota means you will take "x" number of legacies to reach the quota, even if that means dipping down the list of the applicant pool. Goal means you have something to shoot for, but may not make it if the quality of the legacy applicants aren't there. When my oldest was admitted, the letter to alumni stated the university's goal was to have 25% enrollment in the class. They ended up with 22%. Had they been quota driven, they'd have dropped the standards to hit the benchmark, but they didn't.</p>
<p>Gotcha, thanks for the clarification</p>