<p>
</p>
<p>Quite easily, as I was clearly referring to the university wide demographic of Lehigh, and not the college alone. As a side note, even with your spinning to solely the one college, I referred to (whole) university’s in that size range as near-intimate. But that is a red herring anyway, since that is not what I referred to in the post you cite. I would humbly request that you please read critically and in earnest, your bias aside.</p>
<p>Colm sorry but there is no bias here</p>
<p>for, I too, am an Ivy League Alum.</p>
<p>I am just trying to keep the sides balanced, particularly with your misdirection and apples/oranges comparisons</p>
<p>It is not “lets look at Cornell’s Engineering school student population size and compare to Lehigh’s total school population”</p>
<p>It is “lets look at all of Cornell’s undergraduate students and compare to Lehighs similar stats”</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>It is “lets look at Cornell’s engineering student population and compare to Lehigh’s engineering student population”</p>
<p>no more no less</p>
<p>so, to summarize:</p>
<p>Total Undergraduate Students
Cornell - 13,846
Lehigh - 4,879</p>
<p>Total Undergraduate Engineering Students
Cornell - 2,800
Lehigh - 1,440</p>
<p>Total Graduate Engineering Students
Cornell - 2,200
Lehigh - 520</p>
<p>Total Grad + Undergrad Engineering Students
Cornell - 5,000
Lehigh - 1,960</p>
<p>*Correction to above:</p>
<p>Total Graduate Engineering Students
Cornell - 1,610
Lehigh - 640</p>
<p>Total Grad + Undergrad Engineering Students
Cornell - 4,410
Lehigh - 2,080</p>
<p>@posts62 and 63</p>
<p>Your claims that I have engaged in any kind of misdirection regarding demographics are patently false. Readers who view my posts in this thread with an open mind, and basic reading skills, will likely be able to discern that my comments were simply and sincerely my point of view-- a point of view that has been clearly stated and supported.</p>
<p>The figures you posted in #62 and #63 are fine, since the vast majority of the student body at Cornell excels (a point I’ve already mentioned); the biggest factor which makes some “large” schools problematic is their high percentage of under-performing students and mediocre faculty. Cornell University does not have this problem since their students and faculty are exceptional, and it is not at all unmanageably large in comparison with many other universities.</p>
<p>Dear original poster Spud17, I’d just like to wish you and your daughter well as she makes her college decisions. With a thoughtful parent like you my guess is she’ll do great, and that she’ll have a wonderful and rewarding academic experience, wherever she attends.</p>
<p>Well one thing stands out in this thread, and that is how in some cases an ivy education does little. It also enlightened me as to why so many ivy grads go into politics… OMG.</p>
<p>JTD = agreed. Guys if you want to debate this, up in the right corner is a “private message” link. You might want to use it. Just a suggestion. Not being mean spirited - just suggesting. Many students, or those trying to decide if Lehigh is for them really don’t care about alumni giving rates, etc…</p>
<p>ok, carry on.</p>
<p>“Well one thing stands out in this thread, and that is how in some cases an ivy education does little. It also enlightened me as to why so many ivy grads go into politics… OMG”</p>
<p>Since as far as has been stated I am the only one who has posted here who has “an ivy education”, this must be a slam at me.</p>
<p>I have reviewed my posts here and do not believe they deserved this comment.</p>
<p>Notwithstanding that, it is true, in some cases an ivy league education does little. You can lead a horse to water, etc.</p>
<p>Monydad, John Adams 12 is also an Ivy League alum (see post 62)</p>
<p>I stand corrected. </p>
<p>We Ivy grads also can’t read that good, evidently. (or, know what not to read?? you be the judge)
In either case, Justthedad, I owe you an apology.</p>
<p>Thank you everyone who has attempted to enlighten my daughter and me as to the relative merits of these 2 colleges. It is, indeed, a difficult process to figure out where one will have the most fulfilling college experience and where one will fit in, but she is lucky to have such great options. I see from your postings that they could each be the right place for somebody.</p>
<p>colm, yes fully agree</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ok I am an mech. engineering/economics double major at Lehigh. Came from a very good hs in north jersey and reading this arguement that all of these Cornell alums are having about how an ivy league education is so much better than anything else is laughable. A lot of my friends went to ivies, and they are just as stuck up as some of the guys on this thread seem to be. Lehigh is a very good school, and Lehigh undergrads get very good jobs. So all you Cornellians posting on this Lehigh forum, get off your high horses and get off this thread. Yes, your school is ranked higher than ours. But most rankings have to do with SAT scores, alumni giving, acceptance rate etc… There is nothing to do with job placements, and usually student satisfaction is not weighted heavily at all. I love Lehigh, and Lehigh is a very academically rigourous school if that is what you are looking for. </p>
<p>Both are good schools, end of story. Your college experience and future is not about if you went to Lehigh, Cornell, Harvard, Penn State or Rutgers, its about what you do while you are in college. What you do in college is going to get you the good job, not the name of the university on your degree</p>
<p>correct me if I am wrong, but this is something that I continue to hear from Lehigh students everywhere:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It really tells you a lot about the school and how happy the students are there…</p>
<p>FWIW:</p>
<p>[ul]
[<em>] Quality of engineering studies at the undergrad level: Lehigh = Cornell
[</em>] Access to grad students doing cutting edge research: Cornell > Lehigh
[<em>] Quantity and quality of engineering/science research facilities: Cornell > Lehigh
[</em>] Chance that undergrad would have access to advance engineering/science research facilities: Lehigh > Cornell
[<em>] Ability to personalize education (student-teacher interactions, cross-disciplinary studies, ease of switching major(s), etc.): Lehigh > Cornell
[</em>] Sink or Swim pedagogy : Cornell > Lehigh …Lehigh faculty will get more involved in your personal success.
[li] Personalized career services: Lehigh > Cornell [/li][/ul]</p>
<p>StitchInTime
Lehigh P’11
Cornell Engineering/ALS '84</p>
<p>“…all you Cornellians posting on this Lehigh forum, get off your high horses and get off this thread.”</p>
<p>1) cornellians will likely get off the Lehigh subforum completely, if only you just stop talking about Cornell here. I certainly wouldn’t be here otherwise. Failing that, you can probably expect visitors, unfortunately.</p>
<p>2) I only gave my opinion when someone here asked me for my conclusions, after I “footnoted” his post#4. Those opinions were not intended to show any school was 'better", just that they could account for the observed salary differentials in post #4. Clearly there are pluses and minuses of either school.</p>
<p>Stitchintime: what is “personalized career services”?
At Cornell’s engineering school, back when, they had interview lists, I signed up, I interviewed, I got offers. I didn’t really demand much more, maybe they had more to offer me I don’t know. But I was pretty happy with it, at the time. I had sufficient idea of what to be shooting for, from my course work and my professors, and whatever materials the career center provided. Some people also had the experience from their coop program internships to draw on. At Lehigh do they print out the interview slots with your monogram attached, or something? Anyway interested parties can investigate what they do there now and what resources are made available, but this is one aspect I don’t recall having any issues with frankly.</p>
<p>another question for Stitchintime, what is the difference in ease of switching majors?
At cornell’s engineering college one does not begin a major until junior year, when do they do that at Lehigh? Do they never have to declare a major there?</p>
<p>Transfer between colleges at cornell is not automatic, is it automatic at Lehigh, or do they not have separate colleges? That said, I actually switched colleges at Cornell, and internal transfer was a pretty trivial process at the time.</p>
<p>BTW which brings to mind, there are a number of colleges, 7 in total, you left out # courses offered and fields one can study at each. I wound up choosing to take courses in three colleges there. The breadth of offerings, and academic interests, is a feature of note at Cornell.</p>
<p>Some of the other stuff I’ve no idea, eg I never tried to do research there, or do interdisciplinary studies.</p>
<p>@monydad:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation shows that ratio of students per career services personnel (not including administrative assistants) is more favorable at Lehigh:</p>
<p>[ul]
[<em>]Cornell: <a href=“3047%20graduates”>url=Cornell University (CU) Introduction and Academics - Ithaca, NY
</a>/<a href=“24%20non-admin%20staff”>url=Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University
</a> = 127 graduate/personnel
[</em>]Lehigh: <a href=“1127%20graduates”>url=Lehigh University (LU) Academics and Admissions - Bethlehem, PA
</a>/<a href=“10%20non-admin%20staff”>url=http://www3.lehigh.edu/giving/contact/career.asp
</a> = 113 graduate/personnel[/ul]
The post-graduate surveys of each schools also offer some insight. [Lehigh’s[/url</a>] is much more detailed than [url=<a href="Career Services | Student & Campus Life | Cornell University. </p>
<p>Numbers alone don’t make the argument. Direct conversations with the career services director, Donna Goldfeder, also showed a willingness on her part to improve the survey and include statistics on whether-or-not graduates were satisfied with their services and if a graduate go into his/her first choice job/graduate school. Ms. Goldfeder has attended every family weekend I’ve been to (3 so far) and pro-actively seeks out students to utilize the career services. That wasn’t the case for this alumnus, albeit in the early '80s.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Switching majors between colleges at Cornell [url=<a href=“http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1257228000]requires”>http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1257228000]requires</a> a re-application](<a href=“http://www.lehigh.edu/careerservices/documents/UGradPlacementReport2008-Final1.pdf]Lehigh’s[/url”>http://www.lehigh.edu/careerservices/documents/UGradPlacementReport2008-Final1.pdf).</p>
<p>At Lehigh, assuming you have the GPA and can complete the required coursework, you’re allowed to switch to practically any major, even in another college, after simply meeting with the appropriate advisor(s) an making your case.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>With regard to cross-desciplinary studies, Lehigh has a number of innovative initiatives, many detailed [url=<a href=“http://www3.lehigh.edu/academics/interdupro.asp]here[/url”>http://www3.lehigh.edu/academics/interdupro.asp]here[/url</a>].</p>
<p>"Numbers alone don’t make the argument. "
I hope not, because those differences are trivial. </p>
<p>But more importantly:
I don’t know what the statistics would show, but, as you should know, Cornell’s engineering college has its own completely separate career center, so the stats for that alone would be the most highly relevant for someone contemplating engineering employment. Although engineers with different interests can use the other university career center resources too, as appropriate, IIRC. Did you use the engineering college career center for your placement? I think that’s what we’re specifically discussing here. Because I did, and I thought it was just fine. Or did you go through CALS (the Ag school, for those who don’t know)? </p>
<p>I guess the stats analysis may be tricky though, because not all graduating engineers look for engineering jobs, many go to grad school or other employment. Hmm…</p>
<p>Switching majors within a college at Cornell does not require a re-application. Switching Colleges requires a re-application, I went through the internal transfer process myself and the criteria was not much different than what you cited at Lehigh- having the grades and can complete the required coursework. You have to submit an appication, or else how do they know you want to transfer, with the relevant documentation and an essay for why you want to transfer.</p>
<p>Oh, lookie here, it says at Lehigh you have to fill out a “Petition Form”. Wow how very different, they don’t call it “application”.</p>
<p>At Cornell one must go through the described internal transfer process to change colleges, from engineering to colleges of: Architecture, Human Ecology, Industrial and labor Relations, Hotel Adminisration, Agriculture or Arts & sciences. At Lehigh you would not have to re-apply for most majors in most of those other colleges. Because at Lehigh they simply don’t have most of these programs of study, or majors, at all. Forget an internal transfer application there is no internal transfer possible there, with or without an application, because these majors do not exist there to internally transfer to.</p>
<p>I transferred between engineering & Arts & sciences, myself, the process was trivial.</p>
<p>@monydad:</p>
<p>Point taken on the many more options for majors. But more options doesn’t mean a guarantee of having the application accepted. I remember at least one colleague during my time attempting to transfer from Engineering to A&S and being denied; which prompted the Cornell vs. Lehigh observation.</p>
<p>Via the Cornell sponsored site [Dear</a> Uncle Ezra](<a href=“http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1257228000#question7][i]Dear”>http://ezra.cornell.edu/posting.php?timestamp=1257228000#question7) referenced above:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s not clear if the difficulty noted is a result of the being a transfer student or part of the regular process for any student switching his college. </p>
<p>Via [Lehigh’s</a> College of Engineering FAQ site](<a href=“http://www3.lehigh.edu/engineering/admissions/connect_faqs.asp#B6]Lehigh’s”>http://www3.lehigh.edu/engineering/admissions/connect_faqs.asp#B6):</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This change of major policy at Lehigh is also reinforced during admitted students briefings and new student orientation.</p>
<p>I seem to remember that the career services were centralized during my time and not broken out amongst the colleges; though my memory is fuzzy on that point. I will give Cornell kudos for attracting a very large, highly qualified group of recruiters.</p>