Lend me your opinion CC parents.

Parents Forum
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<p>I need some other parental opinions here. </p>

<p>So here's my problem, my mother and father are pretty well off, they recently got divorced and are on new life paths spending a lot of money on random things, for example a new kitchen etc. My brother and I are great students we've managed 3.6 up to steady 4.0s (still going strong), my brother going to highly ranked California uni and myself going to Rutgers. Here's where I want your opinion. My mother and father do not contribute to paying for school whatsoever. They have set up a college fund but make us take out loans (the college fund is not nearly enough to pay for anythin really) in our name. This is very hard for me because I can't see why you would want your child to suffer through 120k+ debt before interest when they could use that money to buy their first property or start their own business when they graduate. Many other parents (friends and family) seem to have either taken out the loan in their name or paid for their kid's school altogether. My mother claims that our education is no longer her responsbility. My dad is not willing to help either. I dont know if I have a sense of entitlement here or what but I would expect a parent to make a minor sacrifice from their expensive lifestyle (2 or 3 years) to help their kids pay for school. Even if its just 20k a year for both of us that would help a lot. My brother and I have tried talking to her but she wont listen when we argue it she simply just kicks us out or yells at us. I would understand if she couldnt afford it but that is not the case.</p>

<p>Am I wrong in thinking any of these things?</p>

<p>I am expecting a lot of negative feedback. I am not a spoiled ungrateful brat I have worked for a majority of my college life and my senior year of high school, I even purchased my own car. Sorry trying to bat away the spoiled brat comments before they come! </p>

<p>I dont know if its a good idea to have any of this information online I might comeback and delete it after.</p>

<p>(Sorry if this is poorly written I did not have time for grammar because I am at work)</p>

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<p>My daughter’s son is going through a similar situation and it breaks my heart. I am very, very sorry. In their situation, it seems that each parent is trying to get revenge on the other by hurting the kids. I wish I had a good answer for you. Unfortunately, you are stuck with putting their income/assets on your financial aid forms which means you likely won’t qualify for aid, but yet they won’t help you. You are looking at entirely too much debt and, in any case, you can’t qualify for loans on your own. What state is your residence?</p>

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<p>I inquired about the student loan debt cap at a bank apparently its 800k before interest. My parents will continue to cosign. The thing that scares me is I want to go to medical school I will surely get atleast 200k more debt. I am a California resident, I am trying to go back to the UCs and CSUs for school because being at Rutgers is a bad financial decison. The only reason I didnt re-enroll at CC is because I wanted to finish my pre-med reqs at a uni. </p>

<p>It’s not very fun when you dont get any fin aid anywhere either.</p>

<p>What amount do I stop qualifying for my loans?</p>

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<p>I should also note that if you happened to reference my pervious threads I did get a 2.5 freshman year but since then its been a 3.6 to 3.8 to 2 4.0s.</p>

<p>I’m also wondering if I posted this in the wrong part of the parent forum!</p>

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<p>Certainly, your parents are free to spend their money on whatever they want … or not spend it. However, I think you are justified in feeling hurt that they will spend it on things that are not necessities, yet expect you & your brother to borrow for college. It is their choice, but it hurts you.</p>

<p>You have to deal with reality. And the reality is, that is too much debt. I will leave it to others will advise you on the undergrad portion … but I would like address the med school portion. Please seriously consider joining the military once you decide on med school. My D’s friend did this, and she is able to go to med school for free … plus, she gets money for living expenses. Yes, she will have to serve as a doctor for the military later, but she will be far ahead of her peers in terms of debt. It is at least something to think about.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your post that is par on what I was thinking. Already planning on doing the Navy’s HPSP, hopefully I’ll get it when I apply.</p>

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<p>Parents are under no obligation, legally or morally (IMO), to pay for their kid’s college education. It’s nice if they pay for it but there’s no obligation and there are huge numbers of people who attend college without their parents paying for it. They do so either by attending an affordable college either by being covered by scholarships/grants, getting reasonable loans (and it’s nice if the parent will co-sign - something not all parents will do), or by working their way through. They select the college based on the big picture of what they can reasonably afford, logistics (ex: living at home attending a local U rather than heading elsewhere necessitating a new dwelling and consequential costs), and value of the quality of the college, major, etc.</p>

<p>

So in effect you want your parents to give you money so you can more readily buy a house or start a business. Why should they do that? You should be able to do that on your own if you’re smart about the college costs.</p>

<p>

It’s their money - they can spend it on what they want. Personally, I’d prioritize spending it on a college education for my kids vs a new kitchen but that’s me, not all parents have the same priorities. Just because they’re prioritizing the kitchen, for example, doesn’t mean they love you any less - it just means they don’t feel obliged to pay for your college education, just like they might not feel obliged to buy you a car, pay for an apartment for you, send you to Europe on vacation, or hand you $120K cash simply because it means you’ll have an extra $120K in your life (which is in effect what you just said in this statement).</p>

<p>Regardless of what you ‘think’ your parents should do you have to play with the cards you’re dealt so you need to play smart with them. If you know you’re on the hook for paying for college then cut the costs. If you can commute to a local UC/CSU from home rather than attend an expensive OOS or a UC on the other side of the state you can save a huge amount of money. If you work a p/t job during the year and summers you can earn quite a bit just from that, especially if one parent or the other will let you live at the house at no charge while you’re attending college. Another lower cost route is CC->Uni which can cut costs further if done smartly and the logistics work out (i.e. you can get the classes you need). Taking advantage of some federal or state programs (ROTC, etc.) is something else to consider.</p>

<p>Now, given all of that, it’s unfortunate for you, and no fault of yours, that your parents got a divorce and are each following their own path. Did you (and bro) have the college financing discussion with your parents before you chose the particular college and made the decision to go there? Did they originally say they’d pay for it but are now backing out of it? Or, has the reality just now hit home with you that $120K is a lot of money to pay for undergrad and it actually has to get paid back? If they said up front they’d pay and are now backing out of that commitment it’s indeed an unfortunate obstacle thrown in your path.</p>

<p>Look at it this way, you’re an adult now (welcome to adulthood) and need to watch out for number one right now, i.e. yourself, with your current situation. It doesn’t matter whether your parents are spending money on things other than you, it only matters right now whether they’re willing to contribute to education or not and if so, how much. You need that data so you can crunch the numbers and plan accordingly in pursuing the college career in the way I mentioned above, i.e. choosing the right cost college.</p>

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<p>Gladgraddad, the only issue I take with your excellent post is that parents shouldn’t change the rules of the game after the kids have already gone to college. Absent a life-altering change in circumstance, I think if a parent lets his kid go to College A on a specific financial arrangement, then he should keep his end of the bargain until the kid graduates.</p>

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<p>The reason I sited the apartment or the use the 120k+ for other things is because the job market is probably going to be tough and I could use the help just like many other people. You are right, it is not my parents’ responsibility to pay for it but I’m saying if I had the money I would pay for my kids college, they have the money and are not. My parents and I are different people. </p>

<p>I went to CC for two and half years transferred to Rutgers thinking that I would finish in 2 years because I overcited the fact that they did not offer a certain off-sequence series that is vital to my major. I’m in the barrel for 3 years and I am desperately trying to get back into the UC system but they put a cap on the units I can earn before I get disqualified for every UC except UCI. </p>

<p>My dad assured me my freshman year that he would have enough money to pay for our colleges. We never talked about it after that then when we started apply to uni’s from CCC, my parents told us we have to pull out loans. I had already got accepted and life at home was already difficult enough so I decided to just take my acceptance to RU and get the heck out of there, there were other things that factored into my decision.</p>

<p>I plan on applying for scholarships at Rutgers, I will most definitely have the letters of rec needs seeing as a ripped a hole in every curve this past semester. I am applying to UW-Madison, UW-Seattle, UCSB, UCSD, UCI, UCB, Cal Poly SLO for fall 2013.</p>

<p>Both of my parents are acting like they are 20 years old. They spend money like one, date like one, listen to music like one. </p>

<p>I understand I should be able to support myself and go through loans and stuff. She did that and she constantly says “Well I did it so can you!” She complains about how horrible her college experience was because she had to pay for everything. Why in gods name would you ever want to recreate that for your child?</p>

<p>I thank you for your long well-written response gladgraddad</p>

<p>Part of me wished that after they told me that they werent going to pay for anything that I had been established as ward of the state or whatever that call it and be an independent. My mom is saving money by claiming me as a dependent causing me to get minimal aid.</p>

<p>Theres a huge difference between 120k and 200k when I get to paying it off, thats what does not make sense to me. It’s just selfish to me that she would rather see me pay 200 thousand dollars than help me out for 2 or 3 years of her life. </p>

<p>I am being selfish I get that.</p>

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<p>

I agree zoosermom which is why I asked about whether there was an actual agreement up front on the parents paying and whether the parents have backed out of that commitment.</p>

<p>

Well, in that case, your dad should live up to his commitment and not stick you with it. How does he respond now when you ask if he’s still willing to live up to his commitment? Does he just say he’s changed his mind and will now no longer meet the commitment he made?</p>

<p>

That statement holds no water given what you posted. The significant part of the equation is the cost and I’m sure your Mom’s situation was quite different than yours and it sounds as if it was due to your dad’s commitment (did your mom participate in that discussion?) that you decided the affordability question on college choice and whether, in fact, ‘you can do it’. If you had known up front that you were completely on your own then you may have followed a different plan and then yes, ‘you could do it too’.</p>

<p>A caution to anyone - if your name’s on the loan documents, whether as the primary signer or co-signer, you need to realize you may end up on the hook for all of it. As soon as you were the one taking out the loans, as opposed to just your parents taking out the loan or just paying the tuition, you were potentially on the hook. I know this is a raw deal for someone who signed the papers at 18 y/o with parental promises and you should be able to trust what your parents say. Keep this in mind for the future though if someone ever asks you to co-sign something or someone promises to pay you back if only you’ll cover it for now.</p>

<p>I hope your parent who co-signed the loans realizes that they’re legally on the hook to pay it if you fail to pay for some reason.</p>

<p>So yeah, from your description you got a raw deal due to the simple fact that your parent reneged on a promise irrespective of whether they ‘should’ pay for your college or not. I think you should discuss this whole topic again with your parents, especially your dad since that’s the one who apparently is going back on his word, and let them know the bind they put you in and the impact it’ll have on you. Maybe they’ll reconsider. If not, it’s time to go to plan B and reduce your financial obligations somehow.</p>

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<p>I brought it up to him and he claims he doesnt have the money which I know is a lie. He tells me to pull out as many loans as I want he’ll pay them off when he makes a break in business. If you were to google my dad you would see some pretty horrible things as far as what people say. So he is never going to pull through. My mom was present but didnt really comment when he said he would pay. </p>

<p>My mom wouldnt pay a dime if I couldnt pay she’d let it ruin her credit.</p>

<p>Theres nothing I can do to convince them otherwise and it honestly just makes me resent them both. To be completely honest I do not plan on talking to them once I graduate at this point.</p>

<p>My only option is to go into a UC and save money. The only thing I can do now is get straight As and get into UCSD or UCI and live from one of their places.</p>

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<p>Good luck. UCSD and UCI are both excellent universities so if you end up at one of them you should do fine. Don’t forget UCR and some of the nearby CSUs for a broader option in the event you don’t get into UCSD or UCI.</p>

<p>It sounds as if your dad didn’t say he wouldn’t pay the loans - just that he’ll do it later which of course will be dependent on whether he actually has the money to do so. He probably doesn’t need to pay them back right this minute. Maybe he’ll pull through or maybe not. If you don’t have faith that he’ll pay them then you need to protect yourself as much as you can in the lowering of costs.</p>

<p>I hope this doesn’t really cause you to never speak to them again once you graduate. Remember that parents aren’t perfect and can make mistakes and exercise poor judgment as much as anyone. Hopefully things will smooth out eventually.</p>

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<p>People spend money on things they believe to be important. If one values education, they save/spend on their child’s education. If one values an image, perhaps a foreign car or a big house is where they spend their money. </p>

<p>I’d encourage you to do the best you can at the most inexpensive state school you can attend and try to limit your undergrad debt, if at all possible. You will incur tremendous debt as a med school student, but you should have an adequate income to pay off those loans as a physician. If parents are unable/unwilling to pay for your undergrad education, do the best you can to get a top-drawer education on your own. Be responsible for your own future. Please don’t let resentment toward your parents create bitterness within. Bitterness is like a cancer and will devour your well-being if not dealt with in a constructive manner. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for your responses. I got much better feed back than expected! Lets just hope I get into some of the UCs and get that Navy HPSP.</p>

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<p>

I agree with respect to legally, but I think morally depends on the circumstances. For example, since my parents paid for my college education, I certainly think it would be immoral for me to refuse to pay for my kids’ educations. As suggested, promises could also make such a refusal immoral. Also, I feel a general moral obligation to help out family members, including my kids–I’m always surprised by parents who don’t feel the same way.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I disagree, and I speak as a woman who desperately wants a new kitchen! :slight_smile: A college education is not a frill. Cars and vacations and cash are frills. If a parent genuinely cannot afford to pay college costs, that is one thing. But to blow $$ on frivolous spending while your kid racks up huge debt, even though he has taken a lower cost route to a degree, shows lack of love, IMHO.</p>

<p>We were essentially unable to help with our kid’s college costs until his senior year. Now that he has graduated, we are choosing to pay off the comparatively modest loans he has taken out, even though we really need a bathroom renovation–our sole shower is barely usable–and the kitchen is in dire condition. He was luckier than the OP in that he went to a school with superb FA and we had an EFC of almost 0, so he wasn’t penalized.</p>

<p>It sounds to me as if this is a war between the parents. The father is a feckless big talker, and the mother is angry and determined not to fulfill financial obligations that she sees as his. The kids are caught in the crossfire.</p>

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</p>

<p>A promise broken simply because someone changes their mind is immoral IMO. If the promise isn’t fulfilled due to unexpected circumstances they couldn’t work around then it wouldn’t be immoral.</p>

<p>I stated what I did because I know moral parents who don’t pay for their kid’s college education for a variety of reasons including often just how they themselves were raised. For example, the parents might not have gone to college yet have a perfectly fine lifestyle and don’t see the value in paying for the kid’s college - they may view as more of an ‘option’ than a necessity.</p>

<p>To make the question more complex - </p>

<p>Some parents might prioritize saving for their own retirement above paying for the kid’s college. Actually, I think most financial advisers advise this. I wouldn’t consider those parents immoral even though it’s a subjective area - i.e. how much they really need/want for their retirement.</p>

<p>Some parents might not be willing to sell their $500K home and move into a $300K home to be able to hand that $200K to the student to use for college. Is this immoral?</p>

<p>Would it be immoral to refuse to pay for a $225K private the student really wants to go to as opposed to a $40K state U or refusing the $40K state U as opposed to a $20K CC->State U? After all, the student ‘wants’ to go to the expensive one. Maybe the parents could come up with the $225K if they scraped enough but if they don’t is it immoral?</p>

<p>I don’t really get the tie to what the parents did in this matter. I don’t let the decision my parents made in this area influence me in my decision - we’re completely different people with different backgrounds and different circumstances (my parents didn’t pay anything for me, which was perfectly fine by me and I had no expectations they would or should).</p>

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<p>Scienceguy-I’m so sorry that your parents are not there for you, either financially or emotionally, it seems. My mother was divorced three times, and not really there for me much of the time either, so I think I understand. It hurts.
But–life hands us all lemons at one time or another, and by taking responsibility for your own future, you will feel a lot of satisfaction from your successes. I’d suggest that you skip Rutgers, go to your local Cal State for your first two years and transfer to one of the UCs in your junior year. You’ll save a lot of money and come away with the same degree. I certainly wouldn’t spend money on Rutgers if you live in California, as even with the cutbacks, the state schools and UCs still offer an excellent education.
There’s no point in continuing to beat your head against the wall with your parents on this matter. Put your energy into coming up with a plan that works, without taking on a lot of debt. And when you have kids of your own, plan to do it the way you would have liked them to have done it. It will feel really good.</p>

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<p>

I’m saying we shouldn’t be too judgmental of the parents (generally - not specifically this thread) because we don’t know what their background and mindset are. Obviously, parents on CC tend to be quite into college, education, etc. but this certainly isn’t the case for many people. You’re viewing college as ‘essential’ and therefore not prioritizing it reflects the level of love in your mind but there are many parents who don’t view college as essential and rather, something completely optional. It’s not even straightforward which mindset is correct since there are many intelligent knowledgeable, successful people who never attended college and many people who graduated college who don’t have those attributes. I don’t think reaching a conclusion that a parent loves a child less because they won’t pay for college is a valid conclusion, especially when one doesn’t know the mindset of those parents.</p>

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<p>

Just some practical info - in California if one plans to transfer they should attend a CC then transfer to either the UC system or CSU system. The UCs and CSUs are both setup to handle this transferring from a community college - not from the UC system to the CSU system or vice versa. Transferring from a CSU to a UC is not a guaranteed or even normal path since the CSU system offers Bachelor level degrees themselves. </p>

<p>The OP also stated they already transferred to Rutgers so we’re not talking a freshman level at this point for the OP.</p>