Lesser ranked music school vs. higher ranked university?

<p>AllMusic... so much of your decision should be based on your financial situation. This is the reality of life and music. It's wonderful if money is not a consideration. So your child can attend camps, competitions and fly here and there for auditions. I am sure that helps. But the bottom line is.. the audition. After being on this site for maybe 8 months or so, I am amazed at how many posts are about the top schools... Curtis, Julliard, Eastman, etc. And I do applaud the parents and students who post here who do have students at these schools. But when you hear that only 4 freshmen violinists were admitted to 'x', it is a wake-up call. The point of this post is to steer the above-average but talented kid (who may NOT be a 4.0 and 1600 SAT) to the school who would LOVE to have him or her. There are so many around the country crying out for talented kids, and willling to pay dearly for them. Julliard and Eastman are goals for grad school, if you make a name for yourself somewhere else. Just my rant for tonite.</p>

<p>There are a lot of very musically talented kids nationwide, no doubt about that. Jazz is even more quixotic, in some ways than classical, in terms of determinations of talent, because there are so many stylistic differences. And with jazz, more than with solo classical, the director and the rest of the ensemble seems to be even more critical than the individual teacher, at least that is what I hear from my son.</p>

<p>If your son is a strong student and is leaning toward a major in jazz performance , since you live in the Northeast, I would look carefully at the colleges and universities in major cities such as New York and Boston. No matter what school he attends say, in the Boston area, he would have the opportunity to hook up with talented students in the various music programs there and play with them at jam sessions there and in the local clubs. In fact, Tufts has a joint program with NEC that you could check out. It would probably also be easier for him to find private instruction he would be satisfied with. The opportunity to play outside of school seems to be as important to jazz students as the opportunities within their schools. They want to be in a strong local pool of talent both to play and to network, so location was very important in narrowing our search. For personal reasons as well, there were some locations that I did not think my son would thrive in--North Texas, for example-- so we stuck to major cities and pared it down from there. </p>

<p>Have your son participate in the NFAA program this fall and audition for the Grammy Ensemble. It will help you evaluate his standing relative to other jazz players nationwide. My son botched his NFAA audition, but I was able to evaluate his standing based on how other players he knew fared and he did make finalist in the Grammy competition. We also attended the IAJE conference in New York last January where we saw many student and college ensembles perform, as well as the NAFAA winners and was able to get a clear assessement of where he stood. That conference will be in NYC again this January. </p>

<p>Hope this helps some.</p>

<p>Spelmom, my son wouldn't be interested in going to Texas either, although I have heard North Texas has a very fine jazz program. He is very familiar with the NEC jazz program already.</p>

<p>Thanks for the info about he NFAA program. I looked at their website for a minute, and it appears that the kids have to be in their senior year to audition. Mine is only a rising junior, so it gives him so time to prepare. I didn't see info (in my quick perusal) on the Grammy Ensemble, so thanks for any more info you may have about that.</p>

<p>Appreciate your help. This is uncharted territory for a novice musical mom.</p>

<p>To participate in the ARTS competition, you must be 17, 18, or a senior in high school. In other words, a 17 year-old junior, a 16 year-old senior, and an 18 year-old college freshman are all eligible. There's nothing to lose by entering it (except around $100 entry fee), and the finalists get to experience one of the best weeks of their lives in Florida, all expenses-paid.</p>

<p>Allmusic,</p>

<p>Check those NFAA rules carefully as I also thought entrants had to be seniors in high school, although they can compete as college freshmen if they are still 18 by the deadline date. The Grammy Ensemble is open to all high school aged kids and information can be obtained at <a href="http://www.grammy.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.grammy.com&lt;/a> under Foundation. Kids selected receive an all expense paid week long trip to California the week before the Grammy awards where they are mentored and prepared to play a series of gigs including the pre-telecast show. They also attend the Awards show. Finalists and their schools receive notification and a free subscription for a music software program (which one escapes me right now.) This program is sponsored in part by Berklee, New School and MSM. The ensemble is led by Justin DiCioccio at MSM and seniors selected are automatic admits to MSM. One kid also got a full scholarship to MSM Its worth a shot.</p>

<p>Other ways to guage his progress as compared to other kids his age is to attend camps that draw from all over such as the Jaime Aebersold camp in Kentucky, the Stanford Jazz Workshop and ,loser to you, the Litchfield Jazz Camp. He might also want to apply for the Brubeck Summer Jazz Colony and even the Monterey Next Generation Jazz Orchestra. The camps take musicians of all ages and abilities, but they do have excellent faculties and would provide great feedback on his talent level. For example at Aebersold, the top combo is led by David Baker, who heads the jazz program at Indiana. Brubeck and Next Generation are strictly high school student programs. Brubeck attracks applicants nationally and would be an excellent indicator, should your son make it, that he would be competitive at the conservatories. Monterey, though now open to applicants nationwide, tends to draw heavily from California where there is a very deep and talented applicant pool. However, students from other places have made it the last couple years (one from Massachusetts this year, I believe) and the rewards are great. They play a ten day national/international tour as well as the Monterey Jazz Festival. The Vail Jazz Workshop is also supposed to be excellent; his music teacher would have to nominate him and you have to have economic need.</p>

<p>Much of this information I did not learn until it was too late to be of use to my son, so I am happy to pass it on.</p>

<p>Spelmom, I PMed you. Thanks!</p>

<p>Our son is a junior in high school and loves the tuba and plays in marching band-he can do many other brass instruments but wants private lessons on the tuba so he will be ready senior year to do auditions for colleges to get into music schools. We would like him to do music education because one day he would like to become a band director. He looked at the U of Cincinnati today and said it was a pretty nice campus and is suppose to be one of the best music schools in the country but it is supposedly very performance oriented and the music ed students are looked down upon -the same thing with Indiana Univ-good school but same feeling.What is your opinion on this-does it make a difference if these schools feel that way-I would think it is like that in every school where the performance students look down upon the education students???
So, we are also looking into Miami univ of Ohio, Oberlin, Case Western, Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Ohio Univ.
Any thoughts about these programs and how hard they are to get into?? Like percentage of students that get in??</p>

<p>Allmusic, sounds like Northwestern might be a good choice for your son. Hate to sound like a broken record,but I have reported before that I have a son who is a graduate of NU, and have known some musicians there. The Northwestern students we know are all exceptionally sharp. The environment on the campus is intellectual and focussed. </p>

<p>Wesleyan is actually a good place for incidental music. We know many kids who have gone to school there. One is now a professional musician. </p>

<p>Have you checked out Bard College as well? It's such a lively place and full of musical opportunities. I guess NEC/Tufts doesn't appeal?</p>

<p>I agree that lining up a "safety" for a musician that also offers great academics is tough.</p>

<p>On an instrument like tuba, the overall percentages do not mean very much. You have to find out how many openings (if any) a school will have for tuba players in the year he auditions. </p>

<p>All of the schools you mention have well-respected music programs, but I can't tell you anything about the relative merits of the tuba instructors at each school. Not many schools have more than one tuba teacher, so you had better be pretty sure that he will be happy with the one that is there.</p>

<p>The split between performance and education majors varies from school to school. It can matter a lot if the school itself treats music ed majors as second-class citizens. I would be less concerned if the attitude is only prevalent among a few performance majors.</p>

<p>Jazzzmomm, you know my son is all off and happily ensconsed in his school! It is so funny to read all my questions and ruminations of years ago. But your advice is very good for Nocozo, so I hope she/he reads it!</p>

<p>If he's seriously interested in music ed and not performance, take a good long hard look at your state flagship and your other instate publics. These are often the most cost effective choices for music ed. He does however have to mesh with the instructor. If he is more performance focused, you might want to reconsider choices, looking beyond a lot of state programs. Some are excellent, but many are not hotbeds of performance.</p>

<p>Any of the schools listed will be very good for music ed, and Oberlin has a five year double perf/ed five year program, and a performance/MMEd option as well.</p>

<p>For music ed, look at Ball State, Duquesne, U/Neb Lincoln as well. I can't speak to the specific brass faculty.</p>

<p>I am sorry-I don't know what happened--it's like my computer hit a time warp. I was reading something old and Allmusic was talking about a junior son, and I figured you had another son. Obviously, I was reading the beginning of the thread which was so long ago-- I cannot explain the lack of attention. I apologize!</p>

<p>Mommab--What instrument does your son play?</p>

<p>Hi, everyone. I’m new to post, and my daughter is also a music performance major. We have applied to eight schools, but there are a couple of safeties like Columbus State whose faculty has a couple of Julliard-trained professors and are very interested in her. Their music school is in a totally different location from main campus with an all Steinway and state of the art facilities and great dorms right across street from School of Music. She’s already been accepted into the school, but has an audition coming up this month. She contacted one of the professors to see if she could maybe come before audition, and they were thrilled for her to come. Immediately sent her dates and times. I have found that several of the smaller schools will do this, and it shows that your student is serious about their craft.<br>
But she’s also applied to Florida State, Vanderbilt, and University of Minnesota and Belmont.<br>
Does anybody know anything University of Memphis or Florida Southern’s music programs? They’ve also been hounding her. This is a very stressful procedure:)</p>

<p>My daughter is a sophomore at CSU in Ga. My son finished Belmont four years ago, and was accepted at Vanderbilt when going thru the application process. So I have some experience with some of the schools that you show interest. Sorry I don’t know about U of Memphis or Florida Southern.</p>

<p>D is a vocal major and theatre education major at CSU. She is extremely pleased with the school and her fellow students. The downtown campus is wonderful and the facilities are fantastic. If you are GA residents, the cost is very reasonable. And I am told that some out of state students are allowed to receive in state benefits as incentives.</p>

<p>My son went to Belmont because of its commercial music program. He studied classical violin, but in addition wanted the training in jazz and other non-classical areas. He got good training for that. But overall I am not nearly impressed with the classical program at Belmont as I am with CSU. </p>

<p>What is your daughter’s instrument? I can be more specific with what I know of those two schools.</p>

<p>She’s voice. She’s been in chorus since middle school and has been in District Honor Chorus every year, All State, Spivey Hall (your chorus teacher chooses four students), has one numerous talent shows, an AMTC scholarship, major parts in school plays, etc. She is a mezzo-soprano and can sing classical very well, but I think she’s leaning toward commercial music. She was going to try out for American Idol and decided against it because she wants to get her degree first and study abroad to figure out what type music she wants to do.
But we were very impressed with Columbus State’s facilities and the caliber of music faculty. It’s almost like getting a Julliard education at a public school price. And we are in Georgia, so she’d only be a couple of hours away from home.
Thank you so much for replying. Seems like most of the posts were related to the Julliard and that caliber schools. Those are definitely “reach” schools for her because of her grades. She’s a high B, so she would qualify for GA’s HOPE scholarship, and she’s more comfortable at a small to medium size campus which is why I think Belmont appealed to her and Nashville with all of its music environment.
How many schools did your kids apply to? It seems like every day we find out about another “good” school, but I think we’re going to stop at eight. Her last two are Rice and U of Miami, which are both great schools if she can get in, but Columbus I can see her being the big fish little pond scenario because the school is smaller.<br>
What did you think or know about Vanderbilt’s or Florida State’s music programs?</p>

<p>musicmom26:</p>

<p>Rice is very selective academically. Music students there will take many of Rice’s rigorous academic courses. If you have excluded Juilliard for academic reasons, then Rice would probably be a tough admit. I believe that it is fair to say that Rice will place more emphasis on music applicants’ academics than Juilliard would. </p>

<p>Juilliard will place most of the admissions emphasis on the quality of the audition. To get into Rice’s Shepherd School of Music, one also needs an excellent audition. If a student is an excellent musician and meets an academic threshhold, then their chances of admission are good.</p>

<p>Musicmom, when your D takes sample lessons, encourage her not to be too swayed by where a teacher went to school. Attending a particular school, no matter how well known the school, has very correlation with being a good teacher and even less to do with being a good fit for an individual student. </p>

<p>I’m also curious - how do these schools target students?</p>

<p>My D went on Princeton Review and FastWeb, College Board, and GACollege411 and put in her profile, and the schools that she was a good match with have been sending brochures, letters, fee waivers, invitation for overnight visits, special days for prospective students, countless e-mails from admission counselors, etc.</p>

<p>Her chorus teacher’s alma mater is Florida State, and she’s been to their chorus camp for the past three years, so she likes a couple of the professors there. But she also likes Belmont, but the last couple of days we have been checking out U of Miami. She’s already been admitted to Columbus State, and her audition is on the 21st. That is her safety school. After what violindad posted, I went back and looked at Rice. I think that would be a high reach for her, and I don’t think she wants to go that far from home. Florida is only four and half hours from us as well as Belmont and Vanderbilt, which may be a high reach also, but she’s already applied.</p>

<p>Should she set up sample lessons at all the schools she’s applied to before audition (if there’s time) or just the ones she’s really serious about?</p>