Lesson Learned . . . and a bit of venting

Paying for College
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<p>Are you happy with your Financial Aid Package?</p>

<p>NO. My d (oldest child) was able to get into two highly regarded schools, but due to the fact that we are unwilling to sell the house, etc., d will attend the safety school in state. I feel as though I set my d up and let her down. We went to several states for the purpose of looking at schools. My d has an impressive hs record. She gave 200%+ in high school. </p>

<p>As a parent, I encouraged her to aim high and go after her dreams. She did her part--I guess I didn't do my part as a parent. I regret not talking with other parents who have been through this in order to learn from their mistakes. Instead, I read every college admissions book I could find--scholarship books, news/mag articles -- you-name-it . . . yet, the real info. is from those who have been through this.</p>

<p>Sadly, we still live in a world of the have's and the have-not's. The middle class neither "has" nor "has-not." That is the lesson learned. On paper, we look as though we should be able to afford a lot of money. However, divorce set me back quite a bit and saving for college was very difficult (and that's w/a cooperative ex-). We do not drive expensive cars, we do not go on $$$$ vacations, we do not send our children to pricey private schools, and we simply do not have the $33,000+ EFC per year to send our d to the "better" school.</p>

<p>In two years, when it is time for my son to apply to schools, we will certainly take a different approach. He will be able to apply to the dream schools, but we will make sure he identifies a clear realistic number one early in his senior year and we will make sure that he has more safety schools where the odds of full-rides and ample $$ are much greater.</p>

<p>I am confident that had my d applied to more safety schools, that she could have had a full-ride (some of her friends did). Yet, she wants to attend a school where she is challenged--not where it is easy. There is the true dilemma--take the risk and spend the $$, or play it safe so that you still have some $$ ? We didn't even approach the safety school in the right manner--the school may have felt that my d would probably go elsewhere. The schools always want to know where else you have applied . . .</p>

<p>I am equally appalled at how the colleges court these kids--the phone calls, DVDs, magnets, personalized notes, and brochure-a-week. My d started receiving flyers her freshman year. My son has a box started for all the stuff because there is so much. I guess many of us are simply helping their US News rankings. </p>

<p>I'm sure there are many other parents out there feeling the same way I am feeling. As a parent, you want the best for your child and you want them to have more than you had . . . yet, at what price?</p>

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<p>Whay exactly went wrong? Had you estimated your EFC? Were you expecting more merit money? What was the expectation that didn't pan out?</p>

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<p>Don't beat yourself up.</p>

<p>This is a set back for your and your daughter however life goes on. She is still the same daughter that you loved before and you the same father that she loved before.</p>

<p>As you describe your daughter she will not only survive but flourish.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>We knew that our EFC was going to be astronomical. I guess we didn't want to believe it. We had a hard time understanding why it was so high.</p>

<p>Merit aid? I know how that works--I guess I had believed schools when we were told that they knew that most people don't have $40-45,000 a year to send their kid to school. If the grants had been higher, we were willing to stretch ourselves and send the d to the better schools.</p>

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<p>My d is the kind of kid who will be successful wherever she goes. I guess I'm feeling that the dream school is what it originally was--just a dream.</p>

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<p>I'm afraid I really don't understand this concept of high-achieving, motivated, and intelligent students giving up their dream schools because of a few thousand dollars. I understand that you as parents may not be able to afford the costs. Financial aid can be a really raw deal for the middle class.</p>

<p>But seriously, if your daughter is willing to give 200% in college and life as well as high school, her effort at a "highly regarded" school will pay off in future career success. She should be willing (with your encouragement) to take on some of the debt herself.</p>

<p>Think about how far you would have stretched had the grants been higher, and consider stretching that far and asking your daughter to make up the difference. I'm sure she'll be successful wherever she goes, but the dream schools open doors that the state schools can't.</p>

<p>In the long run, even a full $160,000 out-of-pocket/borrowed investment in the education of such a motivated student is one that is likely to yield high returns. I suppose you could compare it to investing in stocks on margin — are you willing to take that level of risk on your own daughter?</p>

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<p>We're not talking about a few thousand of dollars. Would you want your s or d graduating with mounds of debt? I doubt it. </p>

<p>We can argue circles about the value of an education at Univ. X v. Univ. Z. </p>

<p>Common sense has to enter the picture at some point. We're telling her to work hard and aim for a great grad school. We'll start saving money NOW for that.</p>

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<p>This is just my fact (I don't have opinions) but any middle class person who spends $40,000 per year on a kid for college is a complete idiot.</p>

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<p>JoeV: I agree.</p>

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<p>Before allowing a kid to apply to college, it behooves parents to take a close look at the college's costs, including their financial aid web pages. Most colleges do not guarantee to meet 100% of documented financial need. Many colleges, including some very popular colleges such as NYU, gap aid for many students. The gap between documented need and the financial aid may be more than $10 k a year.</p>

<p>In addition "documented financial need" means what the college thinks you need, not what you are willing to pay.
Also, just because a college has merit aid doesn't mean that your child will get it. The only exception would be the relatively few merit scholarships that are guaranteed if a child has a certain gpa or SAT score or other characteristics.</p>

<p>IMO eveyrone knows that a top college would cost more than $150,000 for for years. I don't know why parents would allow students to apply for such an expensive purchase without the parents taking a very close look at the financial aspects. </p>

<p>Most people would not put a contract in on a house without taking a serious look at their finances and what financing is available. The same goes for a students' college education.</p>

<p>Most of us have worked very hard. That doesn't mean, however, that because we have worked hard, the world owes us our dream house. We realize that we have to buy what we can afford, and we do our best to work out the best financial deal that we can. We don't say that we are being cheated or treated poorly because we middle class , hardworking people can't afford a Hollywood mansion.</p>

<p>The same goes for colleges.</p>

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<p>It's certainly a value judgement, by no means the same for every student. After reading my post, do you genuinely doubt that I would want my kid to graduate with debt? I'd encourage it if I believed the education were worth that level of investment. And I don't consider myself a complete idiot for perceiving that value in an education at a highly competitive and expensive school.</p>

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<p>To KenJ's mom
it's great to hear your youngster did her part, and gave 200 %, whatever giving 200 % means-. Evidently she was your school's valedictorian, as well as joining school clubs, lettering in multiple varsity sports, and active in church and community projects while keeping a part-time job. You can be very proud of that. My son did well too, and I'm proud of him, although he did not do perhaps, as well as your child. The realizations I came to are (1)that there are many many students competing for college(grants), and that they are a more challenging group than high school, simply because a kid is competing with only college-bound students, unlike in high school. Secondly, I realized a childs education is the family's responsibility- that is his own, and whatever parents/relatives can and will chip in. Everyone would like for the gov't to chip in more, but remember, we are the gov't. I don't want to feel obligated to chip in for KJmom's child, nor should she have to chip in for my son.<br>
As far as college gifts, I have also realized that my #1 reason above really comes into play. A high schooler that had 3.5 all 4 yrs is well above average academically in high school. Yet, colleges see this all the time, and need more than that to expect that student to be above average in college. I believe scholarship committees look at g.p.a., and that alone eliminates many students. Then, they are seeking individuals with broad interests. Any still left in the pool, will be asked "what else did he do?"
One of my son's buddies had a 3.9, 29 ACT, was about 6th in a grad class of 225, applied at same school as my son, offered much less merit scholarship my son offered. My son is 3.65, 27 ACT, but played 2 varsity sports, member National Honor Soc, various clubs, community activities and such. The other fellow was better in academics-without a doubt- but had only that and Chess club on his resume.
Early on I figured out the college grant pond is a bigger pond than high school, and a big fish in high school pond might be small fish, when they step up to that pond. Perhaps she can attend her dream school if she picks up part of the tab....? Good luck.</p>

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<p>"Many colleges, including some very popular colleges such as NYU, gap aid for many students. The gap between documented need and the financial aid may be more than $10 k a year."</p>

<p>Hmm--I guess NYU's version of gap aid and ours are two different things.</p>

<p>Northstarmom: You seem to infer that I believe that someone or something "owes" my daughter. This is not true. </p>

<p>As well, although I may be delusional at times, I do not believe in a caste system where middle class folks should know their place. </p>

<p>The point in my post is that knowing what I know now, I would have done things quite differently. I hope others can learn from my errors. I was cognizant of the finances going into the process. I read the financial links and did my homework. Where I went wrong, perhaps, was in not talking with financial aid personnel to see what the reality check would be. When I looked at schools with higher financial ratings, I guess I expected "more" in terms of meeting our perceived need.</p>

<p>I feel that the application fees to some of the colleges were an absolute waste of my money. Yet, I guess we learned things that will help our son when the time comes.</p>

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<p>Kenj'smom, unfortunately your experience is typical. There is so much positive literature out there about all of the grants, awards that are available, that it is easy to miss the fact that you may not get any of it. If the way you calculate your needs are different from the colleges' or federal methodology, you are out of luck. I was just reading some article about financial aid stating, "you might be surprised at how much aid your family can get", and my reaction was , yeah, you might be surprised all right at how much when it does not even come close to meeting your definition of need. That happens repeatedly. I guess this coaxing and positive PR is necessary because those forms are such a pain to complete that the carrot has to be dangled at the end of the stick even when the chance are small that the applicant is even going to get a nibble.</p>

<p>That said, with students like your D, scholarships are certainly available. If she has high stats, applying to schools where she is in the 10% of the applicant pool, and if it is made known that the merit aid is going to be issue, there would be a number of colleges clamouring for her. There are even schools with pretty automatic cutoffs in test scores and grades for awards. As for asking where else she is applying, you do not have to list every single school, but even if you do, it does not seem to hurt, in my experience. Two of my friends' Ds who applied to a large spectrum of schools in selectivity are being wooed by all kinds of scholarships from their "safety" schools, and those schools well knew they were applying to some top schools where there would probably be some acceptances. But one I know is probably going to go to Sewannee over Davidson because of the generous award. Another is vacillating over an excellent state program at bargain rates over a name school without such a program at top prices. The money is a big issue for many people, not just you. </p>

<p>If the issue is a large home equity, it may be wise to stay away from schools that want the PROFILE, other than the very top ones that give you a generous allowance on home equity since FAFSA does not include that item. You also want to look at schools where your student is in the very top echelon of students, and there are plenty of schools out there with excellent programs to give a high achiever a challenge. You are looking for merit aid and programs for those schools. For financial aid, you want to get a school that does not gap so you will get 100% of need. You also want to look for some schools with low sticker prices. I have suggested College of Charleston to a number of families who have visited, and they are hooked. And the cost of that school is pretty low even for out of state. Grove City and York College are other possibilities for low sticker prices. When the bottom line is truly important, there should be heavy consideration for it when looking at colleges. Not to say a dream school may not go on the list, but there should be some strong discussion as to what the $$$ are going to be and how any gap would be made up. </p>

<p>I am sorry this turned out the way it did. S has a friend who went to NYU, and is now working this term and the summer to make ends meet for next year's tab. He will then take any lower level courses at a local school for transfer and then try to get the upper level credits and his degree in 2 and half years total at NYU but not all semesters in a row. He prefers to do this over transferring to a SUNY, so he will do this. My son is working 90 hour weeks over spring break and will do so over the summer to rake in the money. My other kids have done the same. When they double shift on tip type of work, they can earn $15K + a year which brings even the most expensive college cost down to $30K. If the parents pay half of that outright, that leaves $15K to split between parent and kid in the way of loans, some of which may be offset if kid decides to RA one year, work at the cafeteria, join ROTC, or take sophomore year off and work and take lower level courses at a community college, shaving off a year from the high cost school. If you really want it, there are ways.</p>

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<p>Jamimom:</p>

<p>Thanks for your post. I feel a little better. My d will get merit aid from the in-state safety, but her dream schools were certainly elsewhere.</p>

<p>Will the world end? No. I truly suspect that a number of parents can identify with how I'm feeling now. You do feel led to believe that you shouldn't worry about the money . . . We even steered away from the schools that seemed to be cavalier about how much debt they allowed families to accrue.</p>

<p>I wish that we had guided our d to consider two or three safety schools. She only applied to one in-state school because we thought one of the "match" schools out-of-state would be closer on $$ than it was. We were wrong.</p>

<p>I guess another thing that I have observed from the process is what happens to the Nat'l. Merit kids. Many set their sights high, thinking that So-and-So Ivy School will want them. Many do want them, but what I am seeing with several kids is that they end up going to the state school at the last minute because the "gap aid" was not there.</p>

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<p>" Many set their sights high, thinking that So-and-So Ivy School will want them. Many do want them, but what I am seeing with several kids is that they end up going to the state school at the last minute because the "gap aid" was not there."</p>

<p>The Ivies all give aid up to the demonstrated level of financial need. That will never match the aid that public universities give to their top in-state candidates. The families don't get "gapped" -- they simply don't get all of the financial aid they want in order to continue to live a lifestyle that makes them comfortable.</p>

<p>Such families that want the best financial deal from the highest ranked university possible and who don't have top 30 public universities in their states should apply to private universities such as Vanderbilt, Emory, Washington U, Rice and Duke, Grinnell, Wake Forest, and Davidson, which give excellent merit scholarships to their top applicants. Their students also may get good merit aid from top out of state publics that are generous with giving merit aid to top students from out of state.</p>

<p>I didn't understand this from your original post:
"We knew that our EFC was going to be astronomical. I guess we didn't want to believe it. "</p>

<p>If you knew that you have an astronomical EFC, then I don't understand why you allowed your child to apply to places that you had evidence that you would not be able to afford. Seems like wi****l thinking that set your D up for disappointment. That wasn't the colleges' fault.</p>

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<p>KenJ'sMom, some of the kids who are most hurt are NMFs. In our day, it was good for a full ride at many great schools. The amounts given were pretty much full tuition at even the most expensive schools. Well, the amounts haven't gone up but the tuition has sky rocket where that basic $2000 covers the books and some pin money for the year these days. This comes as a great shock to many families after all of the hullaballoo about making finalist. I remember several years ago my neighbor's eyes welling in tears at a comment that Penn's adcoms made about her son who was a NMF. I think the program is wonderful in that it does reward academic achievement, but I think it needs to be simplified so that it is easier to see exactly what you are likely to get when you make it to the final round and win that grand prize. At Harvard, it could well just be that $2000+ for the first year only, hardly a dent in the $200K it is going to cost these days for 4 years. </p>

<p>For your future college applicants, I suggest buying the USN&WR Ultimate Guide, a big fat directory of colleges. What is valuable is the combination of academic and financial stats it gives for each school. You can get some idea where your kid falls as an appllicant, academically, and then see what the average financial aid and need met are, and even the amounts of merit aid. All averages, but it gives you a starting point.Applying blindly is dangerous if you need the money as you can end up applying to a school that gives out few dollars in merit and does not meet a goodly amount in grants, tending to give a lot of loans or gapping.</p>

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<p>Northstarmom: I just hope that other parents who are new to the process may learn something from what we encountered.</p>

<p>I know that I learned a hard lesson. My d is not complaining because that is not her nature. </p>

<p>It is just when you have a kid who is stellar, that you scratch your head and wonder where you went wrong. I know where we went wrong--I hope others can learn from this experience instead of making the same mistake that I did.</p>

<p>So--to anyone who has a child with test scores in the 99%, class rank in the top 2%, national awards, state officer, President of Major Club, Congressional Service Medal, HOBY, lots of awards for this and that, and teachers who love her . . .. DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING.</p>

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<p>Jamimom:</p>

<p>I read the USN & WR Guide as well as every other guide that is out there. We looked closely at average frosh grant, stats, etc. I guess we weren't average enough . . .</p>

<p>Thanks for your insight--</p>

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<p>Assume that they might be able to gain admission to at least a couple top-flight schools. Then, dash their hopes because you're too cheap.</p>