<p>"There are, I think, only 14 colleges in the country that have need blind admissions and guarantee to meet 100% of documented financial need."</p>
<p>Really? 0-o I didn't realize the number was so low. I seriously thought there was at least twice that number.</p>
<p>If you don't mind, could you list those 14?</p>
<p>This is another invaluable thread, one that probably should be saved and brought back to life every year for newcomers to the forum. It's easy to learn good strategies for helping your child get into the kind of school they want and overlook the financial impact.</p>
<p>I essentially put myself through college -- lots of help from employers, and the schools, but not my parents (jamimom, I know exactly what you mean). We came into this thinking our children were going to one of our state schools and never thought about planning for the kind of expense our oldest S's final choice has turned out to be. CC helped us understand how to get him into the school he wanted, but somehow we were still naive about how we were going to pay for it.</p>
<p>This thread helps deal with that. What's most impressive about it is that it's helped clarify for me how we work things to achieve two goals simultaneously, getting into a better school without breaking the bank. I hope we've learn enough to make #2 S's application process much, much better.</p>
<p>Thanks for a wonderful read and much good advice.</p>
<p>I don't know if the number is truly only 14, but it is very low. Many schools demur when directly asked about the need blind issue. All 8 ivies fall into this category as do MIT and Stanford. NYU, JHU, Wash U, colgate, Oberlin, Lehighe, Smith, Vassar, Hamilton, Bucknell, Carleton, are all very good schools that do not. None of the state schools do. I would guess that the top private schools do, Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, Duke, Haverford, Northwestern, Middlebury, UChicago, Bowdoin, Caltech, Georgetown. My guess would be more about 40-50 colleges, but many of the schools do load up on loans and self help. Now there are some state schools that do claim to be needblind and give 100% of aid, but the word I get is that out of staters have a high enough threshhold of entry that they will be eligible for merit if they get in.</p>
<p>Thanks for that heads up, another financial aid myth. So really, it's just the wealthy who will keep getting wealthier.....</p>
<p>You know, as long as good state schools are a reasonable financial option for middle class families, I cannot get that worked up over private institutions not making it easier on people. </p>
<p>Very few families-- even those whose EFC is $40K+-- find these tuitions easy. </p>
<p>In my case I have a younger kid whose educational needs (ADD issues) mean private HS. Nobody figures this expense in to EFC; private HS is not considered essential. Well, for us it is essential. We have our own biz with big swings between up years and down years. (Up years tend to pay for the last two or three down years!) Wouldn't you know, 2004 was the biggest year of the last 7, & this year, so far, is bad. Again, none of is figured in. Finally, 75% of our net worth is home equity-- a house we can't afford to sell, with a loan amt that is the max we can swing! Finally, the cost of living in Ca is huge. Again, relative costs of 'gas & groceries' not figured in to EFC.</p>
<p>Just wanting to point out that unless you have a very regular, longstanding, & very high income, a low mortgage, moderate costs of living, and <strong>no swings or setbacks</strong>, private college tuition is always gonna be hard. Not qualifying for FA is not really a very good barometer of "wealthy."</p>
<p>I can't find the 14, though I read it this week.</p>
<p>Here's what I did find, which should help:</p>
<p>a link to the top 100 colleges for financial aid. Half of these guaranteed to meet 100% of students documented financial need. This was as of about 3 years ago when the list was posted in Kiplinger:
<a href="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1318/is_9_53/ai_55468002/pg_2%5B/url%5D">http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1318/is_9_53/ai_55468002/pg_2</a></p>
<p>Several years ago, an article was published saying, "Macalester is one of fewer than twenty need-blind liberal arts colleges in the United States, and one of only three (the others are Grinnell and Northwestern University) within a 1,000-mile"</p>
<p>Macalester changed its policy about a year later, and this is a quote and a link to a CC archieved board from about a year ago with a Pioneer Press article about the change that says:
"According to a study of 40 colleges in Macalester's peer group, 15 practice need-blind admissions including Grinnell, Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, Haverford and Swarthmore. </p>
<p>I think it is a bit more than 15, NSM, but still not very many. I think it is 15 in Macalester's peer group which would probably be LACs. And I have found even in lists of need blind/100% aid schools, there are doubts about some schools.</p>
<p>when i began looking at colleges last year, my parents kept reminding me that we could not afford a $35,000+ school. all of the schools i looked at were right around $20,000 a year. because of this, and their relatively good financial planning, i was able to apply early decision to elon university in north carolina, knowing that even if i did not receive any aid i would be able to make up the difference in loans without creating a mountain of debt. between the $7,000 in scholarships i've received for academics, as well as a small loan, the difference we need to make up is a little more than $600 per year, which i can make easily this summer. i agree with people who have stated that there are definitely schools out there that are affordable and still offer an excellent education. many of my friends are currently wondering how their families are going to pay $35,000 out of pocket per year for schools that have about the same reputation as elon's. while i understand that many parents want their children to go to a name-brand school, i would rather be able to start off my post-college life with a bachelor's degree and very little debt. it's definitely possible to go to an amazing institution that puts an extremely strong emphasis on education and preparing its student for the "real world" without breaking the bank.</p>
<p>AHH! This is what has been driving me crazy for the last few years! I knew our EFC would be higher than I thought we could swing, but hoped that schools would understand our committment to making sure the second child had the same opportunities as the older one (religious HS). Not a chance! We told the older S that he needed to get merit aid because I was pretty sure we wouldn't get need-based aid. I have discovered that the truth is pretty simple, much as Jamimom has said for quite some time.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If your S/D is in the pool which has a chance at the high end reaches - HYPSM etc. then it is still a gamble to win acceptance.</p></li>
<li><p>If your S/D is that level of an achiever, there may be merit aid out there, but probably not at the schools the student is dreaming about.</p></li>
<li><p>In order to get the merit aid, the student has to be at the high end of the applicant pool for that school and be willing to attend a college where they are probably not with their intellectual peers. The school is, in some sense, making a deal with those kids -- in exchange for enriching the school with their academic abilities and EC interests, the school will provide financial remuneration.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>So now we have to make a decision -- debt for us and our son vs. a good education at a school which will probably not be really stimulating for him. We are leaning toward the first option, based on a variety of things I've learned on CC. But it's not going to be easy by any stretch of the imagination, and I just hope we're not making a huge mistake.</p>
<p>Here's a link to a list of the need-blind schools that meet full need, but I'm pretty sure it's incomplete. Harvard and Princeton are missing, for example.</p>
<p>I worked extremely hard to get into Duke (my dream school for the last 10 years). When I got my FA packet, I was devastated. My family simply cannot afford it. I looked into my second choice, though (Wake Forest), which offered me virtually full ride. I'm still confused, but there are options out there. I suggest you read [post=638992]this post[/post] before you get too discouraged.</p>
<p>I got my finaid packages from Amherst and Williams. They are both need-blind and give 100% need-based. This is basically what they gave me. </p>
<p>No loans
a work-study
and then between 600 - 1200 bucks for me and my mom to cover.
The rest the college's tuition was covered with grant money. Plus I've got a scholarship that could cover my work study...
This is (percentage-wise) more aid than I received from State school. For the fewer economically disadvantaged students who are able to get into these schools, finaid is very encouraging.
Middle class tends to get caught in the middle when it comes to finaid. And like someone mentioned earlier - the fasfa really should take into account the cost of living. Geez... you can move the south and buy and nice house for under 100k. In major cities, northeast, california just getting a small apartment can break your wallet. </p>
<p>Well, I'd just like to say good luck to everyone figuring out the financial issue. Hope it all works out for the best</p>
<p>Remember also, when you get those outside scholarships, if you get any need based aid, the outside scholarships will reduce the schools part first, before it reduces the family obligation. Several schools reduce the student contibution before the schools contribution, but most will take the outside scholarship and you will pay the same amount.</p>
<p>Some colleges will apply outside scholarships against your loans or work study or summer employment contribution.</p>
<p>"Middle class tends to get caught in the middle when it comes to finaid."</p>
<p>Not really as much as you think. Middle class families typically can afford to send their kids to a state school. If their state publics are expensive, they probably can find a cheaper out of state public to send their kid to.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, however, poor families can't afford the costs even in low cost in-state publics. Yet to my knowedge, no public universities guarantee meeting 100% of documented financial need. Public universities gap big time. Low income student at publics also may have to take out large loans. </p>
<p>Loans are more of a problem for low income students than middle class ones because the poor students don't have family to fall back on when it comes to getting things like clothes, computers, cars, and household set-up expenses after graduation. Low income students may also be financially helping their families even though they are in college.</p>
<p>Zagat: You are right -- the wealthy can afford to go to the Ivy's and Ivy-likes; the poor can get great (and needed) aid if they are superstars . . . the middle class remains in state.</p>
<p>I just heard of a kid at Princeton this year who will be attending a small state school next year. The family was going into the hole and just couldn't do it anymore . . . </p>
<p>As for "need-blind" -- if things are truly "need-blind" then why do we have to worry about the CSS Profile at all for the early birds? I refuse to believe any school is truly need-blind. Colleges are businesses. I agree. Heck, one phone call to the financial aid office could certainly nudge a decision one way or another . . . Oh--sorry--just being the cynic that I can be! </p>
<p>As I said before, we've learned from my daughter's situation. Our son will be allowed to apply wherever he wishes, but he will have to have more safety schools than reach schools. His #1 choice had better be someplace where merit aid is truly merit aid.</p>
<p>"poor families can't afford the costs even in low cost in-state publics. Yet to my knowedge, no public universities guarantee meeting 100% of documented financial need. Public universities gap big time. Low income student at publics also may have to take out large loans."</p>
<p>actually i think fo poor families, the best option is the "best private school" that their S or D can get into. At Harvard, if the combined parental income is under 40,000 then the education is free. of course, the student must get into harvard, but the idea at a private school is that philanthropy/endowments has allowed the private schools to support the poverty-stricken to go to college. if the poorer student is smart enough to get into a need-bling private school, then the school will find a way to keep them.</p>
<p>There's no doubt that poor kids who get into privates in CA tend to get way better packages than the UCs give. So why is the whole system so misunderstood. Why are there so many shocked families when aid packages come in and why do so many middle class kids apply to $40K schools?</p>
<p>We are middle class and have had some hits and misses with the 40K plus schools. Mostly hits, and we were happy with a majority of the aid offers. Some we knew in advance--out of state applicant to a state school, and that was no surprise. Some-- in two cases (one with first son last year, one with second son this year) just seem to be way far off what the other schools offer. Let's just say I'm glad that my son did not need to rely on his safety, for while it might be easier to be accepted, it certainly did not claim to meet 100% need...and it most certainly did not! Not only did they load him up with loans that the others did not, it would be more than 48K over four years (not including inflation) than the other schools. </p>
<p>Good fin aid experiences: Bucknell, Colgate, Gettysburg, Franklin and Marshall, Washington and Lee, Carleton, Pomona.</p>
<p>decent: Washington College, Northwestern</p>
<p>bad: Wake Forest, University of Richmond</p>
<p>The last two didn't claim to meet 100% of need.</p>
<p>"actually i think fo poor families, the best option is the "best private school" that their S or D can get into."</p>
<p>Actually, that's true only if the poor kid can get into a school like HPYS, Wesleyan, etc. For typical poor kids whose best admission chances are in tier 2 or 3 private colleges (which as far as I know do not guarantee to meet 100% of students' documented need, and who also are more likely than top colleges to have need-sensitive admissions), public colleges probably will be cheaper than private ones.</p>
<p>"actually i think fo poor families, the best option is the "best private school" that their S or D can get into."</p>
<p>I second Northstarmom. The best option for poor families is upper-tier private schools that offer to meet 100% of financial aid. Certainly HYP, but a good many other Ivy-likes and pretty LACs. A strong student then may have as much free choice as someone without financial qualms. Or at least comparable choice.</p>