<p>sybbie - some of us are dealing with schools that require auditions so getting the transcripts and rec letters early is key. There are schools that won’t schedule auditions until there is an academic admission and others that won’t schedule until the file is complete. These audition times fill up early. When GCs and teachers are made aware of this, they simply have to get it in gear and do things when needed - assuming that they are given the materials in a timely manner by the student.</p>
<p>There is a concurrent thread on whether Parents or Students are the principal readers of the Parents Forum. As this thread illustrates, it is SO EASY for an important artifact (what else would you call a transcript?) to “fall through the cracks.” Whose fault that is is irrelevant. What’s important is to be aware that it DOES happen and that all parties organize their activities to preclude an adverse outcome. So, thank you BrianSteffy for bring this to everyone’s attention.</p>
<p>Shouldn’t the transcript go out ASAP in the senior year with the follow-up mid-year report after first semester grades are completed? Sending one transcript, arriving in mid-February, seems way late to me.</p>
<p>I’d say ask around to find out which of your child’s teachers are reliable as references. D last year asked a teacher for a recommendatio. The teacher said he’d write them. We provided all relevant info, stamped envelopes and he was the only teacher who’s letters were not received by any of the colleges applied to. When told the colleges hadn’t received his, his response was he usually has to send them a second time because colleges are notorious for losing them. He didn’t send the “second” ones either. The odd thing is, he announced to son’s class at the beginning of the year that he would be happy to write recs for any students that ask! We will let the GC know after son graduates that this teacher isn’t reliable. We don’t want repercussions for our son still in HS with this teacher. Moral: research the reliability of teachers being used as references.</p>
<p>cartera45: Good point. The teachers that we had issues with were performing arts types. Surprisingly, they did not understand how the game is played these days. Students who audition need to get their stuff in early, though their application may, on the surface, appear to be RD. This is what the GC failed to understand, though he was told (verbally and in print - electronic and paper; I teach organizational communication and practice what I preach) that some schools would not schedule an audition until everything is in. Many Theatre kids audition with 5-9 schools at what is called Unifieds. Unifieds is a one time, one week event with many of the top theatre programs there. It’s in early Feb. Scheduling is a hassle, and if schools require all recs and transcripts before you can reserve a spot, one risks looking bad (and there are likely 1000 kids competing for 40 slots) or not getting an audition slot. Performance-oriented high schools (GCs) will understand this process. I do not think my S’s small school did, though it was laid out for everybody on paper. We found out that some did not read what we carefully instructed them to do, including doing whatever we could to minimize their work load. One teacher commented to my S; “you expected me to read all of that?” It was just a typed single-spaced page.
We got everything out today. We scared the h— out the GC by showing up at the front door, early AM. He just defended his dissertation, and we are both Profs, so he was naturally shell-shocked by prof-types. Then we caught the teachers at the end of the day. My wife is really good at confronting people - she loves to fight businesses, so one teacher even volunteered to drive the paperwork to a teacher that had already left. Then last night I re-forwarded e-mail communications from weeks ago (save all of your work) to verify that they agreed to do what we clearly asked them to do. Today, my S gave them a follow-up note and said that he wanted their ‘rec’ by the end of the day so that he could put it directly in the mail - he is a theatre kid, but he was also the starting noseguard on the football team, and he can look stern and tough. Will their recs reflect the temperment of the day? Perhaps, but we had no choice.
We used the episode to illustrate to our S that ours is an ‘organizational society’, and that one has to understand organizational functions and dysfunctions. As a veteran of higher education, I understand that educational institutions are not benchmarks of organizational effectiveness.
Kudos to musical theatre, acting, and other ‘arts’ kids/parents that face admissions obsticles that others do not.
I posted my story, not to complain, but to encourage students and parents to sustain contact and, if necessary, be a pain in the butt.</p>
<p>Most LACs that use the common application require a mid-year report, which presumes that transcripts were already forwarded in the Fall. This mid-term report will capture the semester’s performance. D—, that’s another round with the transcript people. An end-or-the-year report is also required. One good thing about our school is that we do quarter grades, so that by early November some record of senior year performance can be forwarded, a blessing for those with late bloomers.</p>
<p>sybbie – Are you absolutely sure? Princeton’s website, for example, clearly states that teacher’s recs and counselor’s report needs to be POSTMARKED Jan. 1st. The midyear report is a separate piece that needs to be sent when available.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It depends on the situation.</p>
<p>If student is applying to rolling admissions schools, ED, EA or programs like briansteffy, and cartera mentioned, the transcript should go out ASAP (parents also need to remain cognizant that in these cases, the grades on the transcript will reflect the end of the junior year). It also depends on the student and their situation. It would be great to say that every single transcript is correct but more often than not this is not the case.</p>
<p>What I do for my students is at the beginning of the year (first week back) I give each student a copy of their transcript and a form for any corrections that need to be made and a note certifying that the student and the parent have reviewed the transcript and signing off the transcript is correct (or indicating the changes that need to be made and signing off on the corrected transcript). </p>
<p>It is not unusual for students to have wrong grades, turn in incompleted work or make up projects to increase a grade, and in NYS sometimes regents scores are incorrectly placed on the transcript (sending out a wrong transcript imho is more detrimental to the student than sending out a late transcript). In addition students attend summer school (in NYC it is very likely that the student will not attend summer school at their home school) and the summer school grade/regents exam could be missing from the transcript. In the case of dealing with another school, if my student has taken a course at another school, I have to wait for the other school to update my kid’s transcript (this could sometimes take weeks becaue the administration that works at the school during the year may not be the same administration that works during the school year (this is especially true at a school like stuyvesant where students from 7 different high schools attend the summer program).</p>
<p>For students applying RD most colleges want to see the grades at the end of the 7th term (first half of the senior year). </p>
<p>If Princeton states this is the date that they want their stuff, then this is the deadline date that you should shoot for. However, keep in mind your student should have (or should have had their request in to the teacher GC by the 1st week in december so that all of the information scan be pulled together, new transcripts (which have to be signed and sealed) and sent out. Some parents students fail to realize that the school is closed when their kids are out for chiristmas break so there has to be some due diligence on the part of both parties.</p>
<p>If a teacher rec or mid year report is not in on 1/1 the school will grant a professional courtesy to the teacher and GC and will let then send the forms in.</p>
<p>briansteffy,
I hope you will go the principal of you S’s school after admission decisions have been made, and let him/her know what happened to your S, so changes can be implimented in the way the GC office is run. But I caution you about doing it sooner, as you very well may have burned bridges that your S may need if he is deferred and asks for additional positive input from the GC office. I got in the face of the Academic Dean at my S’s school[ justifably] for “forgetting” to send in a letter of recommendation required for him to be considered for a scholarship. But didn’t let the Head of the school know about the “oversight” until close to graduation time. Head of school was so mad he broke a pair of glasses he was clutching when I relayed the incident. [S was on of his favorite Seniors that year]</p>
<p>One thing that we insisted S do was email his teachers before the Xmas break, asking if their recommendation letters had been mailed yet. As a result, all letters were sent out before the first of the year.</p>
<p>
I’ve always wondered just how that midyear report gets used, if they start reading applications earlier. Is it only used in cases where they want a little more proof that academics are strong or that a belated upward trend in grades is continuing? Or do all final decisions await till it arrives anyway? (Which in NY is likely to be in early Feb.)</p>
<p>I had worried about DS1’s huge, urban/suburban HS not being able to get out transcripts, etc. in a timely manner. I must confess I have been pleasantly surprised. Everything from the school got where it needed to be, including rec letters from teachers which were not mailed with the school report/transcript/GC letter. </p>
<p>DS’s research mentor (who admits he’s terrible about such things) gave DS sealed & signed envelopes with the recommendation enclosed, and we sent them along with whatever printed materials DS was including with his app. His other outside rec mailed them from her college, but she did ask DS for the school’s deadlines, as she said it’s been her experience that sometimes recs that arrive too early can get lost in the shuffle.</p>
<p>DS gave his HS teacher recs a brief cover letter thanking them and talking about what he got out of their class/memorable events, a resume, and asked them to focus on him in their class, rather than on his resume. One of the teacher had a questionnaire of her own for him to complete.</p>
<p>I’ve said this elsewhere, but if your S/D’s GC gives you or your student a chance to provide additional info to help in writing the GC rec letter, DO IT. GC had a totally different idea of what DS’s grades reflected until DS completed her info packet and put things into context. She became his biggest advocate. We haven’t seen the letter, but she has told DS a couple things she mentioned, and it was all good, and some of that came from the discussions we had with her. </p>
<p>DS2’s school (a different one) apparently doesn’t do that, but I may set up an appointment/write a letter anyway because I thought it was a big help.</p>
<p>A lot of kids don’t take much in the way of APs until senior year – I see so many taking AP Calc and AP sciences senior year – so the grades may be a lot different than what they pulled through junior year. I would also guess that mid-year grades tell how an adcom how the student manages the stress of heavy coursework and apps, ECs, etc. How do they handle that extra load of writing and deadlines?</p>
<p>I strongly suspect DS was deferred at one school because of grades – his GPA was below the Naviance numbers for our school over the past three years, but everthing else was very strong. He is taking a couple of very tough classes this fall (including one that said school has looked upon very favorably in the past) and I’m sure they want to see how he does.</p>
<p>briansteffy - Just posting now - stupid flu has kept me away from CC. It does appear that our GC has more resources than yours and I definitely did not take your post as a derogatory comment on Catholic HS. As a matter of fact, there are 2 GCs for 100 seniors and my S happens to have been assigned to the better GC of the 2. I have heard a few minor complaints about the other GC.</p>
<p>Glad to hear that the school sent out everything asap.</p>
<p>I can attest first hand that senior recommendations take hours to write and process; there are many individual applications to fill out and although many schools use the common application, many do not. Teachers do not have private secretaries to help them with this paper work; this is above and beyond the demands of the regular classroom. Junior and senior teachers may have over 30 students ask them for recommendations; this is time consuming work. The obvious pleasure expressed in confronting these teachers is appalling; my bet is the letter of recommendation that you son or daughter would receive after such a scene would be general at best and would not have a positive impact on their admission. Try being a little nicer when you are asking these teachers to write recommendations; they don’t have to do them.</p>
<p>It is better that they say no than to say yes and then not do them in a timely manner. At least students can deal with an honest answer.</p>
<p>grouphug1: I write recs all the time for students seeking jobs and trying to get into various grad schools. I certainly would not dare write a nasty rec because I made a mistake and the student pointed it out. A teacher that did that should think of a career change; something like managing a fast food unit.</p>
<p>With letters of recs, you have to be proactive and remind the letter writer constantly. Obviously, there’s no need to be obnoxious about it but send an occasional email or send a thank you letter to remind them.</p>
<p>This is particularly true with college professors. They will not write your rec if you don’t remind them. For med school apps, I asked 3 months ahead of time for recs. While the professors all enthusiastically agreed to write them, they were simply too busy with teaching/research to sit down and write. In the end, despite my reminders, two of my three recs were turned in on the very last day (in fact, one professor had to hand deliver it to the premed committee).</p>
<p>Briansteffy … </p>
<p>“We scared the h— out the GC by showing up at the front door, early AM. He just defended his dissertation, and we are both Profs, so he was naturally shell-shocked by prof-types. Then we caught the teachers at the end of the day. My wife is really good at confronting people - she loves to fight businesses” and “I posted my story, not to complain, but to encourage students and parents to sustain contact and, if necessary, be a pain in the butt.”</p>
<p>Teachers are no longer “shell-shocked” by anything; Prof-types, doctors; CEO’s…they are all the same; a respectful, considerate “manager of a fast food chain” trumps an obnoxious prof-type, doctor or CEO any day. </p>
<p>Some advice I can offer to help you have a more positive admission process:
(Most of you seem to already have done this):</p>
<ul>
<li>be organized: have a folder with all of the applications and deadlines. Getting applications piece meal will only interrupt the process. Many students keep coming back with a few more schools or new, additional forms that need to be filled out and sent elsewhere.</li>
<li>Give the process plenty of time (six weeks if you can) This can be difficult when you are applying early action; but try to remember, many students are applying early action so the math and English teachers will have many requests.</li>
<li>Follow up two weeks before your applications are due with a thank you note. This will serve as a polite reminder if the recommendation has not been sent yet. You would be surprised by the low number of students who say thank you. Would it surprise you that after 20 years of writing recommendations and helping your child in their application process that I have only received two thank you notes from a parent???</li>
<li>Lastly; have your child follow up with the teacher on which schools they were accepted and where they choose to attend.</li>
</ul>
<p>What we’ve learned we did right was that DD turned in her request for letter of recommendations very early. She asked her teachers extremely early, like the beginning of her senior year, in case her teachers are overloaded with requests from high school seniors. She aslo maintained good relationship with her teachers. After a meeting with her GC, her GC immediately told her it was so easy to write letter of recommendation for DD. DD also enclosed a postcard with every letter of recommendation to each school so she can keep track who sent what. Her teachers and counselor also told her when they sent stuff. The hard part is to decide on what/how many schools to apply. In front of her big brown envelope, the one she handed to all her people that write recommendations for her, DD listed all of her schools and deadline. She was extremely organized.</p>
<p>I also googled on the internet and found a high school counselor that listed all the essay questions in one document(to most schools). That was a big help. DD could do a quick glance and had all the major essay questions in one place. She could decide quickly what school she wanted to apply and what schools she wanted to eliminate.</p>
<p>In the end, it was a very stress free process. Ah, but not the essay writing process. That was stressful.</p>