<p>Trying to make some big decisions today, and I realized what an important resource this board is for clueless parents like me trying to guide their kids through this process - thank you all so much just for being here! </p>
<p>The decisions we are wrestling with are:</p>
<p>Voice coach - classical training vs musical theater-specific training</p>
<p>Dance - tap, jazz, ballet, and/or lyrical?</p>
<p>Does she need piano lessons on top of all this?</p>
<p>I won,t bore you with all the ?'s about how do we pay for it/ drive her there/make sure her little sis gets attention & some of the family funds too...</p>
<p>My older D is just so HAPPY when she's in a theater, it's hard to know when enough is enough!</p>
<p>My D used the MTCA coaching organization and it paid off handsomely. So far she was accepted in to 3 programs of varying degrees. I can’t answer the specifics that you asked but just wanted to throw this out there. Good luck!</p>
<p>I would say that no route is the exact “right” route to go. But i would say for vocal lessons i think a instructor that you really trust who is highly qualified and helps your kid make progress is something you can’t go wrong with. i think the kind of training you get really depends on the style of your daughters voice. : ) as for dance. most people contest that ballet is the foundation of everything, so you if you’re going to take something. can’t go wrong with that. good luck!</p>
<p>I would agree that almost everyone we have ever talked to has said that if you can only take a limited amount of dance, to start with ballet as it is the foundation for all else. </p>
<p>As far as voice, I’m not clear if you are looking at vocal teachers, or vocal coaches. As far as teachers go, everyone my daughter has ever worked with has taught a well rounded range of types. Even though my daughter is most interested in MT, her teachers have always had her working on at least one classical song at any given time. They have also made her try a lot of different styles as MT includes just about everything. The great thing is that she now enjoys many styles she probably would not have tried on her own. As her last teacher before college states, a good singer should be able to tackle any type of music. </p>
<p>I believe MTCA is more for coaching, when preparing for an event or audition, rather than on-going weekly lessons. (Those in the know please correct me if I’m wrong!)</p>
<p>I have a son in MT but I would say:
Voice: STRONG emphasis on classical training
Dance: ballet first; then jazz (only one school asked the kids to tap, and that was optional)
Piano: not necessary but it helps once they are in college. He does wish I “would’ve made him take lessons when he was little” (It was hard enough to drag a 13 yo boy to ballet and know he tells me it’s my fault I didn’t put him in piano!!!)</p>
<p>I would also say any audition experience is huge. It’s something that can be hard to come by, but jump on any opportunity. He did some local acting workshops that definitely helped because he only did musicals in HS and one straight play. </p>
<p>We did not use a coach. He had voice lessons from a local University Director of Choral Studies who was able to “pick” good audition songs for my son. I know it is different for girls v. boys and it sounds like having a coach for girls may be necessary in this crazy competitive business! My son was lucky to get accepted into all his top programs, but he was only looking at liberal arts schools with BFA MT programs and not the conservatories and that may make a difference, too. </p>
<p>Thanks everyone - feeling a little better now. We’re going to pursue the more classical-oriented voice teacher, rather than the mt-focused one. She’s taking ballet and tap already, maybe we’ll throw in some jazz later. Got a summer acting conservatory audition lined up. She has taught herself what piano she knows & I may just leave her to fend for herself in that area as my wallet and my gas tank are empty!</p>
<p>I realize how difficult it is sometimes to include everything but this is an area that, in my opinion, should not be neglected. Most of the successful theatre actors we know are also musicians. For someone who wants to pursue a career in MT, piano is a skill that is, at the most, required, and, at the least, incredibly helpful. I honestly can’t think of even one actor friend, offhand, who is currently working who does not play the piano or the guitar, or both.</p>
<p>Agree with the sentiments about piano…and child does not need to be a virtuoso, but being able to read music and play through a new piece is so important. (Also, a few of d’s schools did have a piano component to the audition…). As for classes, yes – make sure ballet is at the foundation of it all. Glad she’s already taking dance classes – keep them up. Being able to dance well in an audition often can be the one thing that differentiates a person in that crowd!! Make sure that her voice teacher “clicks” with her, and gives her solid foundation. At the place where my d takes voice, they won’t start private 1 on 1 voice lessons until a child is at least 15 so as not to risk hurting their voice (there are choirs, etc available before then). And summers are great – good luck to her w/the acting conservatory audition --sounds like fun.</p>
<p>Final caveat – make sure that your role is to support your d’s passion. If this is not the world she’s totally driven toward (and you’ll find out as she manages to do her lessons, practice for voice and piano, rehearse for her shows…and keep good grades), because it never lets up. If your kid thrives in this crazy no-time world, then let her (because you’re not going to be able to keep her from it.) If she cries Uncle, that’s okay, too – it’s very, very possible to LOVE MT and performing…and not want to make a college career or professional life of it (and some days I feel that is the saner course…)</p>
<p>My D had begun taking voice lessons not until sophomore year of H.S. and that was just because she liked to sing…not even a THOUGHT at that point of going MT. She was taking at the local music center with a wonderful, young teacher who was more versed in classical. We really loved this teacher, but once D began to think about going the MT route in college, we sought out and found a wonderful voice teacher in our area who was versed in Broadway. She was INSTUMENTAL in building the voice D would need for auditions, and to help pick audition songs AND monologues. We were so lucky to find this “gem” right here locally…and then to find out she has a son on Broadway and a Tony award winning daughter in law…We sure hit the “jackpot”! So if you can find a voice teacher who can also “coach” along the way…all’s good!</p>
<p>mommafrog- great last piece of advice. That’s when I realized my D really did want to do this. She juggles all her lessons and several shows at a time and keeps up her grades. I have yet had to drag her to a rehearsal-she has not always like the directors but she has always wanted to rehearse-its harder getting her to leave the theatre! </p>
<p>GertrudeMcFuzz
When my D was in 9th I let her take a year off of piano but her vocal teacher insisted she start back up in 10th to prepare for college auditions and to make it easier for her once she is in a program. Also my two cents echoes most everyone else-ballet is the core then I would add jazz if possible before anything else. My D’s vocal teacher like takeitallin’s teaches the whole pictue-classical and MT- like ballet is to dance classical is the base. Good Luck to you!</p>
<p>I have reached the same conclusions - ballet is the basis for dance, classical is the basis for voice - and generally, you do lessons week in, week out while in high school, and the coaching such as MTCA is more for that time frame when they are actually auditioning. Piano lessons are important too. My D took them for 6 years - doesn’t especially like to play, and needs to brush up again, but she will, because not being able to play the piano at least enough to figure out your accompaniment and warm ups is sort of like trying to be a writer and not being able to type and having to depend on cutting out and pasting stuff other people have already written. </p>
<p>My D kept her local voice teacher who kept up with the weekly stuff, her vocal drills, working on her technique, etc, while her audition coach worked on picking her audition songs and learning to present them MT style. There is some overlap in the material (and I would have freaked if I heard conflicting instructions from them to my daughter but happily, they both always told her the same things which is one reason I felt so confident she was getting good training) but they do serve two different functions.</p>
<p>I wish I had posed this question a few months ago! But in the last 24 hours I’ve lined up a great voice teacher for her (she starts tomorrow!) and confirmed that her current ballet teacher is in fact a ballerina, not a jack of all trades dance teamer, based on what I learned here. Thank you all!</p>
<p>And yes, this is definitely her passion. When I warned her that her summer plans would have her going straight from an all day acting program to evening musical theatre rehearsals, she said “Ooooh I can’t wait.”</p>
<p>Getrude, your D is lucky to have you! I want to encourage you (and all the other wonderful parents on this board) to make sure the voice teacher is not of the “classical” school that steers your daughter away from using her speaking register in singing, as a “speech-like” quality is the basis for most MT singing (even the oldies). (I don’t mean speech-level singing - I mean a singing voice that is connected in technique to a healthy speaking voice, so it sounds like the same person.) As kjgc mentioned on another thread, there are many types of teachers in the world of voice - and some of those who understand “classical” singing the most do not understand how to carry that over into the demands and expectations of MT singing - and I don’t just mean the beltiest-of-the-belty pop-rock stuff. I wear several hats in my professional life, and the reason I post most often and so passionately about vocal health is that I see damaged singers as patients all the time who have “classical” training that was never translated into the actual repertoire the singer uses. </p>
<p>The reality is that the more vocally versatile a singer is, with familiarity with pop sounds and stylings, the more competitive they are in this field. Some schools are now beginning to move toward requiring one audition song to be non-MT (as NYU initially did this year, before making this allowed but not required), and while I don’t think all schools will make non-MT singing a requirement, I do think that by the time your D is a senior, it will be true of some schools. This could mean mixy pop-folk or even jazz - but the ability to sing in a strong “speaky” mix is really key for girls in the current market. I have seen 5 MT college senior showcases in NYC thus far this spring, and 75% of the girls have belted or sung mixy pop or jazz material, rather than singing legit. </p>
<p>This fairly detailed advice may be jumping the gun for a freshman, because the fundamental technique must be in place first - but you want to make sure the technique is pointing her in a direction for expansive growth rather than constraining her within limitations that aren’t conducive to healthy MT singing. Anyone who makes her fear “belting” should be suspect, in my opinion - that shows a very limited and antiquated knowledge of belting. Rather, young singers should be taught that a belty SOUND is almost always MIX. the difference between pressed or strained belting and a freed sound, and how to use proper singing mechanics to reduce impact on their vocal folds. And yes, they should all be able to sing in their “legit” head voices, too!</p>
<p>Thank you CoachC for the detailed advice - absoutely priceless. I am feeling pretty good about the teacher at this point, as I got the recommendation by calling the mom of the most talented singer at my daughter’s high school (& lead in their recent musical) & asking who trains her. The choir director at their high school is absolutely fabulous & is the All-State coordinator, so I feel like she’s in really good hands there.</p>
<p>For the naive like me, could anyone explain the terms legit vs. belt? I see them frequently on the board & don’t really know what they mean. My daughter doesn’t know either at this point. I googled “belt song” & got a lot of results for a song where someone’s belt falls down - funny, but not helpful!</p>
<p>There are MANY definitions of belt (some of which are really “mix”) - and, btw, there is NO scientific agreement about what a mix is (in terms of vocal fold vibration and muscle engagement). The easiest way to understand it is by example:</p>
<p>Legit = Goodnight My Someone (Music Man) - soprano-y stuff</p>
<p>Chest belt = Anything Goes (although Sutton Foster, currently singing this on Broadway, has a really healthy belty mix most of the time) - Ethel Merman was the quintessential chest belter</p>
<p>Mixy or “head belt” = Defying Gravity, with MOST singers (some naturally use a chesty belt higher than others) - gets brighter in sound but not brassier as it ascends</p>
<p>Seth Rudetsky has some funny videos online through his website that demonstrate belt vs. mix - he’s a Broadway music director who is “obsessed” (his own term) with “beltresses” - they would be a lot of fun and instructive for you and your D - plus a great walk through musical theatre history!</p>
<p>Clapping for what CoachC said! My D took voice with two different lovely women who were “classically trained” . . . but that training was a long time ago and, in our experience, they were not open to teaching my daughter to belt or mix. In fact, both were adamantly opposed to it due to the old thought that belting would damage your voice. (I’m sure CoachC and others with more experience on this board than me would tell you that belting can damage your voice if done incorrectly . . . but there is such a thing as healthy-belting. )</p>
<p>Actually, both voice teachers had experience in musicals, but the old-style legit musicals where the operatic style voice was the norm. So, I would be cautious in thinking that if someone says they have experience in teaching MT voice that that means they are going to be the best voice teacher for your D if her path is the MT one. </p>
<p>I’m not sure of your location, but folks like CoachC and others on this board have contacts and connections in many cities across the U.S. to help you all find a voice teacher that has a balanced approach in teaching voice for today’s musicals. </p>
<p>You might feel a little overwhelmed by all this information, but I think you’re lucky to start early and with good information from the beginning. </p>
I want to encourage you (and all the other wonderful parents on this board) to make sure the voice teacher is not of the “classical” school that steers your daughter away from using her speaking register in singing, as a “speech-like” quality is the basis for most MT singing (even the oldies). (I don’t mean speech-level singing - I mean a singing voice that is connected in technique to a healthy speaking voice, so it sounds like the same person.) As kjgc mentioned on another thread, there are many types of teachers in the world of voice - and some of those who understand “classical” singing the most do not understand how to carry that over into the demands and expectations of MT singing - and I don’t just mean the beltiest-of-the-belty pop-rock stuff. I wear several hats in my professional life, and the reason I post most often and so passionately about vocal health is that I see damaged singers as patients all the time who have “classical” training that was never translated into the actual repertoire the singer uses. </p>