<p>Bakke was not the Michigan case. Do you mean the Bakke case (which was California), or do you mean one of the two Michigan cases (Gratz v. Bollinger or Grutter v. Bollinger)?</p>
<p>Of course being a URM can help you at some schools, like Michigan. Just like being from a certain state or country can help. But it's awfully hard to state universals.</p>
<p>Sometimes people write like this is a dirty secret, but schools like Michigan have been pretty clear that they WANT URM status to matter, than it HAS to matter if they want to have a class with a variety of races and ethnicities in it. </p>
<p>Like others have said, you might think this is a bad idea. You might not like it. But don't confuse your distaste for the idea with some sort of underhandness on the parts of the schools who practice it. Many of them make no bones about their values. </p>
<p>That said, I think stambliark41 has it largely right.</p>
<p>Jesminder is also right--only an admissions reader can tell you how much it helps, and then they can only speak for the files they read, at the institution where they are reading. However, I think even they'd have a hard time quantifying how much it helps. Usually it's no one thing that clinches an admit. You might be able to statistically analyze how much easier it seems to be to get in if you're one race or the other, but even so you're generally dealing with a lot of overlapping factors within each pool you're comparing. Unless you have identical applicants who differ in nothing but their race (an impossiblity), you can't really know.</p>
<p>Making generalizations is okay. We aren't talking about one particular applicant. We are talking about how much as URM status help an applicant, in general. Am I being naive or stupid to make the generalization that you need a very good SAT score to get into an ivy. In general, being a URM is a big plus for an applicant. </p>
<p>Minority groups seem to want it both ways both times. The JBHE (Journal of Blacks in Higher Education) just came out with a study saying that AA is absolutely necessary due to the relatively small number of blacks with high SAT scores. Unless the standards for SAT scores are relaxed at the elite colleges, there are simply not enough blacks to go around. On the other, a lot of URM's don't want to have anybody say that they have any advantage in admissions.</p>
<p>The census bureau breaks race down into hundreds of category. I should have included native americans when I said that blacks and hispanics were the URM groups or said that blacks and hispanics are the main URM groups, but I was talking to a middle eastern poster at the time. Very few colleges would care about different grades of asians. Nobody is counting those numbers for the special interest groups.</p>
<p>URM, SAT 1430 - taken only once (said he didn't like to waste time taking tests), SAT IIs average >700 (IIC, Physics, Writing) - took all three in one sitting, valedictorian, 4.0 unweighted, aced all the AP's, HYP legacy, very nice kid, great recommendations (no negative comments), national competitive academic scholarships, flat out rejected by HYP. Not enough ecs and leadership, essay not that great.</p>
<p>Interesting anecdote. What is the point. For all I know, he wrote his essay on Malcolm X. An SAT of 1430 isn't that high at HYP anyway and a great rec is not one that just doesn't have negative comments. </p>
<p>If you believe that there is a SAT gap and that the JBHE is saying that without affirmative action the number of black students in elite colleges would plummet, then how can you not feel that being a URM would give an applicant a big bump?</p>
<p>If you're not a permanent resident, then you're an international student and Affirmative Action doesn't help you. Even if you are a permanent resident, then affirmative action will not help you either. You'll have some interesting essay topics, maybe, but in the eyes of every top tier college you are "white" or "east asian", both of which are most definately not underrepresented minorities.</p>
<p>If I were a counsellor, I would think about whether asians with good scores, math, music and a weenie sport should start checking the "Decline to State" box and avoid taking Chinese or Korean SATII's.</p>
<p>Yes, of course race matters. It isn't debatable that schools routinely accept URMs with lower numbers than their non-URM counterparts. The reasons for and legitimacy of this practice is frequently result in much debate.</p>
<p>edit: zuma, that is the exception, not the rule. you know as well as i do that that rarely happens.</p>
<p>TO THE OP:
HVSahin summed your situation up nicely. Beyond your academic achievements, you are attractive to colleges because you are unique and will add to the diversity of the college campus. You need to emphasis your uniqueness to the colleges by writing about it in some way in the essays. For example, if the essay asks what factors in your life have most influenced you. Well, there you have it.</p>
<p>All of the stuff on this thread does not apply to you. Affirmative Action is a term in US society where colleges favor blacks and hispanics (and native americans) during admissions so that the percentage of students on the college campus is close to their percentage representation in the entire US society. There is some controversy about whether or not it is fair, and how much help does it give URM's (under-represented minorities) in the application process. We should apologize because we have hijacked your thread, probably because of its title.</p>
<p>Replying to post #26. Dufus, 1430 isn't that high for HYP, but the stereotypical URM stats you see on these boards is 1000 something to 1200 something. Everyone says URM with 1400+ is a shoe-in. Not true for anyone - urm, orm, wrm, etc. You still have to be desirably packaged, and that involves a whole bunch of other stuff.</p>
<p>I have been told that if you go to a Harvard presentation and ask them what the minimal SAT is that you need to go to Harvard, they will answer 1250. I understand that URM's on CC must get sick of everyone acting like they have it made, and I imagine that they must get that at their high schools too if they attend a majority white high school. I am sympathetic to that. I agree that nobody has a lock on HYP. I think of it more in terms of admissions for HYPSM being totally INSANE for non-URM's and only insanely difficult for URM's. IMO: A 4.0/1550 with outstanding everything else who is a non-URM probably has a 40% chance of getting in to Harvard, but a 4.0/1550 with outstanding everything else can probably get accepted to every ivy. I don't mean to imply that I think that anyone is getting in that doesn't deserve to. I do think that deserving people are not getting in just because they only have so much dorm space.</p>