Let's have some fun: Critique my list of what I believe to be the best undergraduate colleges

College Search & Selection
1

Best undergraduate colleges, my list.

  1. Williams College
  2. Deep Springs College
  3. Bowdoin College
  4. Middlebury College
  5. Carleton College
  6. Haverford College
  7. Bates College
  8. College of the Holy Cross
  9. Princeton University
  10. University of Notre Dame
  11. Georgetown University
  12. Duke University
  13. Yale University
  14. Rice University
  15. Dartmouth College
  16. Boston College
  17. Brown University
  18. Northwestern University
  19. Elon University
  20. Santa Clara University
  21. Providence College
  22. St. Olaf College
  23. Reed College*
  24. University of Michigan
  25. College of William and Mary
  26. University of California Santa Cruz

(* I’m on the fence with Reed. I may or may not take it off the list.)

It was also difficult to add public schools to this list, as I wouldn’t ever be an OOS student at a public school. On the other hand, I firmly believe in the value of a small private school and my rankings reflect that position. I do not feel that a large public research university will provide as good of an education as a smaller private school, especially liberal arts colleges, or schools with very distinctive missions and values that are reflected across every aspect of how the school is run.

With that said, here are my rankings for those who prefer a little different atmosphere. The go-getters who would rather compete than cooperate. Here is my list for the most cutthroat undergraduate schools:

The most cutthroat undergraduate schools:

  1. CalTech (Institute)
  2. Swarthmore College
  3. Columbia University
  4. University of Chicago
  5. John Hopkins University
  6. University of California Berkeley
  7. MIT (Institute)
  8. Harvard University
  9. University of Pennsylvania
  10. Cornell University
  11. Carnegie Mellon University
  12. University of California San Diego
  13. University of California Irvine
  14. University of California Los Angeles
  15. Stanford University (As Stanford continues to become more desireable and more selective, it will inevitably become more and more cutthroat, or at least apathetic.)

I’d love to be challenged on my list, and I’d love to hear any suggestions on how the schools should be ranked, in your opinion.

2

is Deep Springs College even a college? only has 26 students…

3

Regarding your list of “best” undergraduate colleges…
What criteria did you use (if any) to define “best” other than the criteria of private status, size, and mission/values?
What are your sources of information about how these schools are run and how their missions/values are reflected in this?
If other criteria entered into your definition of “best,” what are your sources of information for the presence/absence of those criteria?

4

I have two lists to act as a critique.

My top 25 private national universities, undergrad level:

  1. Harvard, Princeton, Yale
  2. MIT, Stanford
  3. Chicago, Columbia, Penn
  4. Brown, Dartmouth
  5. Caltech, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern
  6. JHU, Rice, Vandy, Washington U
  7. CMU, Emory, G'town, Notre Dame
  8. BC, NYU, Tufts, USC

Top 25 LACs:

  1. Amherst, Williams
  2. Pomona, Swat
  3. Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wellesley
  4. Carleton, CMC, Haverford, Wes
  5. Harvey Mudd
  6. Hamilton, Vassar, Wash & Lee
  7. Colby, Davidson, Grinnell
  8. Bates, Oberlin, Reed, Smith
  9. Bryn Mawr, Colgate, Macalester

And while we’re at it…

Top 10 state schools (quality of faculty + research + % of ranked programs + reputation)

  1. Berkeley
  2. Michigan
  3. UCLA, UVA
  4. Georgia Tech, UNC, UW-Madison
  5. Illinois, Texas, Washington

…with all due respect to the other UCs that outrank some of these flagships in the U.S. News poll.

5

@prezbucky, I think your lists are quite good. Your list of publics finds a lot of support from the following:

http://publicuniversityhonors.com/rankings-academic-departments-private-elites-vs-publics/

https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?method=rankingBySource&ds=herd

http://mup.asu.edu/MUP-TARU-Natl-1-25.html

6

@zapfino

“What criteria did you use (if any) to define “best” other than the criteria of private status, size, and mission/values?”

– The purpose of this list is to provide a list of schools that, I believe, provide the most supportive, opportunistic, and empowering undergraduate experience of all colleges in the United States. It was my intention to remove schools that are known to be extremely quantitative, or apathetic, towards their undergraduate population. I do not believe that these qualities create an environment that is not conducive to personal growth or mental wellness. I realize there are some very selective schools listed, this is because these schools also happen to offer what I believe to be the richest undergraduate experience available.

– Faculty strength was considered. “Strength” constitutes (subjectively) great teaching, undergraduate research availability and faculty that has been well educated. Additionally, nearly all of these schools have extremely high freshman retention rates as well as very high graduation rates.

– Presence of competitive athletics. Extraordinary athletics, while not more important than other qualities, serve to enrich the undergraduate experience by providing students with a source of school pride. Athletic events are also a great way to enjoy a weekend night with peers, and they provide a healthy break from the stressors of school that are inevitable. Not every school has strong athletic programs, but many do. Schools that do not have strong athletics stand out in other ways.

– Presence of an atmosphere that lacks, or directly contradicts, what I believe to be conducive to personal growth and mental wellness.

– Selectivity and average admitted gpa were referenced lightly. Only to make sure that the students at these institutions are both motivated and committed to their education.

– To some extent it is assumed that all the schools within my list will provide students who graduate with a strong alumni network.

“What are your sources of information about how these schools are run and how their missions/values are reflected in this?”

–My sources are the Institutions’ official websites and what they have written to be their core values and/or mission(s). I also reference USNews for information on class size, the number of undergraduates and faculty to staff ratio.

– I read student testimonials and listen to faculty presentations such as graduation commencements and things of the like that are available online. Admittedly, these sorts of advertisements are probably biased, but they usually reflect honestly the nature of an institution. I then determined whether not the nature of the institution fits into what I value in undergraduate education.

“If other criteria entered into your definition of “best,” what are your sources of information for the presence/absence of those criteria?”

– Athletic reputation is referenced through athletic performance in sports leagues.

– Teaching quality is referenced through faculty and staff directories.

– In relation to “atmosphere,” student testimonials as well as information from respective schools’ websites are referenced.

All in all, it’s very unofficial. I’m not claiming to be the USNews, but I would like to be challenged in my opinions and see how others would set up such a list. Personally though, my preferred undergraduate institution wouldn’t stray very far from the list I have assembled. And, I would appropriately not apply to the schools that I have listed as “cutthroat” as I would not thrive in such an environment.

But hey, this is supposed to be fun! I want to see how others would set up a list that focuses solely on the undergraduate experience, or maybe just throw in .02 of some kind.

7

@fleetfeet2016, OK, thanks, that gives me a much better idea of the criteria you considered. I realize it’s your personal “best” list and, as such, it’s necessarily subjective since no one individual can have direct experience or complete information for each school. I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with many of your choices. If anyone could objectively measure certain of your criteria, they’d be light years ahead of US News.

8

You love LAC’s but no Amherst?

9

Interesting to see that you had athletics as a factor, but overall (besides the inclusion of Deep Springs, which I have never heard of) I can’t really argue with your list. I’m surprised to see the omission of some schools like Colby, Amherst, etc.

Could you possibly elaborate as to why you left some Ivies off your Best Undergrad list?

10

I don’t understand why UCI is more cut throat than UCLA.

11

@fleetfeet2016 If you actually assigned weights to your criterion and used real data, you would be in for a big surprise in regards to the final list.

12

@fleetfeet2016 for the most part I agree with this, but disagree with any rankings that provide an individual ranking to each school. How can you (anyone) possibly quantify a real difference between #1 and #5, or #10 and #25 etc.?

13

What about Claremont McKenna. Any thoughts?

14

@urbanslaughter Valid point. I don’t disagree. The “ranks” were mostly done for fun, but they also reflect where I would expect to have the most opportunity for self-exploration and personal growth.

@TheDidactic I just feel that Columbia and Cornell are not great places to be as an undergraduate. I am on the fence with Harvard as I’ve heard some say it is terribly competitive and I’ve heard others say “not at all.” I’m sure it’s all relative. I simply ca not recommend Harvard unless the aspiring student in question has an incredible work ethic and an admirable determination. I may be biased in this thought because I know of a very talented girl who went to Harvard right out of high school, who eventually suffered a terrible mental breakdown. It was very serious; her mother had to fly out to Boston and live with her for a few months before she got her “bearings.” She said that it was the competitiveness and the stressors of day to day life that pushed her “over the edge.” There is a thread going around CC about an “epidemic” of anxiety in today’s students. I don’t feel that these things are unrelated. In that thread, it is stated in The Crimson, a Harvard publication, that 40% of Harvard graduates (from the class 2014) actively sought out mental health services during their time at Harvard. They then go on to compare that 40% to the national average of 10%. That is a marked difference in the proportion of undergraduates seeking mental health services during their time as a student. While many would say that Harvard isn’t cutthroat, I will say that there is nothing about Harvard culture that prevents cutthroat environments from emerging – this is not the case with Princeton and Yale who both actively encourage cooperation in the undergraduate student body.

As for the University of Penslvanya, I strongly considered adding it to my list. I may have to reconsider. My original thought was that Penn had some attractive qualities like a strong faculty and a beautiful campus, it’s reputation as the “social Ivy”, but also, some not so attractive qualities such as a harsh grading curve and perhaps an excessively competitive undergraduate student body – especially within Wharton. I’m sure it’s a fine institution, but I’m not sure it’d be in my top 30. This is my opinion though. Different students might thrive in different environments. However, I would strongly recommend UPenn for serious graduate students.

@DrGoogle I have heard from current students at both schools. They have told me that there are more aspiring grad students/pre-professional students at Irvine and thus the students are willing to do more to get the “A,” whereas at UCLA, I’ve heard that the majority of students are more focused on finding employment after graduation. I realize that most of the schools on my list will likely be seeking graduate school, especially the LAC’s, but, it is my understanding that the University of California system is very hands off when it comes to the amount of support and guidance available to students. For these reasons, I feel that the UC Irvine is more cutthroat than UCLA.

I’m a little surprised to see that many agree with my selections! I must admit, that makes me a little happy! I have always believed that a core component within a strong undergraduate program is the notion that undergraduates are adolescents, and as such they need both the freedom to self-explore in non-threatening environments, and the social support to reassure and guide their decision-making processes.

15

Deep Springs is an excellent college, for those who have never heard of it. It is very small - just about 26 students, I think. It’s a two-year alternative/work college. It’s in a very remote location - the nearest town is over an hour away. Students get very small tutorials and are also required to work on the ranch that the college owns. However, all of their students routinely transfer to very prestigious four-year colleges; 2/3 of the students go onto earn graduate degrees, and over half eventually earn a doctoral degree. From Wikipedia:

I also noticed the omission of all of the small women’s colleges - Smith, Bryn Mawr, Wellesley, Mount Holyoke, especially - as well as the more prestigious Claremont Colleges - Scripps, Pomona, and Claremont McKenna, and Davidson college. I personally would rank all of those colleges above all of the colleges at #18 and lower on your list.

I think you have an interesting take on athletics. I agree in some respects, but my alma mater (Spelman College, a small women’s college whose never-strong athletic program was eliminated about a year or so ago) has a really strong sisterhood/school spirit without strong athletics. I think the importance is that students need to find some alternative to athletics that really bonds them together.

16

I think you have Penn placed correctly - among the most cutthroat schools but not necessarily the most cutthroat. Keep in mind, it’s very pre-professional so many undergraduates are going for the best GPA they can in order to get into top notch grad programs. This is not limited to Wharton. If anything, Wharton is a tad less competitive because the students know they’ve made it, the requirements for majors are less strenuous, and the MBA program expects work experience.

No Wisconsin or Virginia? If Michigan’s there, I would think Wisconsin would show up somewhere. Everyone I know who has attended UVa undergrad has been bright, thoughtful students who enjoyed their time there. I agree - the all women’s colleges have been snubbed.

17

I’m still trying to wrap my head around a list that has Williams at #1 and omits Amherst entirely. They are almost exactly the same school - even the people who go to them will say that.

18

I’m interested in why you think Chicago and Swarthmore are so cutthroat. Neither has given off that vibe to me (and I go to Chicago, and looked extensively at Swat).

19

Post #13, interesting, I’ve read the same about UCSD, like it’s a school full of rejects from UCLA and UCB so the students there work hard and become cut throat. It seems lack of common sense. How do these schools like UCB and UCLA maintain their prestige for long.

20

@drgoogle Prestige is more a matter of graduate programs than undergraduate for large universities. UCB/UCLA have the largest and most powerful graduate programs of the UCs, and when combined with the funding the first two get–UCSD loses, big time.