<p>The CSU's are not research universities. Are you saying the UC's are better because they are interested in research?</p>
<p>"you guys are all losers with nothing better to do than construct hierarchical systems of college value and squabble over which elitist instituation is "superior." Shame on all of you for being such lame idiots. A research university is always a great place to be regardless of its prestigue. **** you all for your pathetic waste of life."</p>
<p>Uh huh. Says the person at UCSC, which most people on this thread don't even bother to try and rank. Even the person who put USF as a top university didn't bother to include UCSC in the list. Not to personally disparage UCSC; I'm just saying...</p>
<p>Personally, I'm not disparaging any of the universities. I'm VERY sorry if I came off that way. Everyone should know that most universities, even if they seem to lack in prestige, offer an education and are places of learning, and it is VERY rare for a person to receive any form of college education (at least outside of America). I dislike elitism, too. However, everyone ALSO knows that some places of education are certainly better than others. That's what this thread is about. To see what people think the better schools are. </p>
<p>I'm not saying USF or UCSC are trash or something. But I also don't think ALL of us are losers for wanting to rank universities. Someone has to do it. And you have to admit, while both are universities and give young people education, there is a big difference between a place like Caltech and UCR, or USF, or CSUs, or UCSC.</p>
<p>themegastud, PEALS-05, Red&Gold,
calm down, sorry, didn't mean to offend
I had listed nine and needed a tenth school - that's all. I have been out of school a <em>long</em> time and was basically listing schools I had learned about through my kid's college search. I picked USF because her best friend is going there next fall plus I LOVE SAN FRANCISCO and the campus is beautiful!!!</p>
<p>I shared these posts with her and she agreed with you all!! USC should be much higher on the list. When I told her I thought I was being flamed, her first response was, "did you list San Jose State?!" (my alma mater and it has served me well). So.... I stand corrected.</p>
<p>The posts have digressed a bit since the original post which focused on California research oriented universities with undergraduate programs. THat is fine though, the topic was getting dry. Here's my two cents on CSU's. For those of you that know more about CSU's, please post your knowledge and enlighten us. Cal State Universities (CSUs) are popular because of their affordability and students focus on learning practical occupation-related skills at the undergraduate level. There are many convenient locations throughout California which make this an attractive alternative to UCs since many students stay at home and save money on housing. By the way I am not paid to endorse CSUs nor do I plan to convince you to attend one. <a href="http://www.calstate.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.calstate.edu/</a> There were 23 CSU campuses last time I checked. </p>
<p>Since this board is mainly focused on UCs and the few private research universities in California, I was curious to learn more about peoples POSITIVE comments about CSUs and how they might rank amongst themselves. I dont believe any of the CSUs are able to compete for rank in the top 50 Ph.D granting research universities selected by US News. With that said, many people that I know have made successful careers starting with CSU degrees. </p>
<p>From numerous encounters, I can say that CSU grads (although I am not one) do make it into top graduate schools and can compete with the school snobs that populate this message board (I must admit that I was somewhat of a school snob once upon a time). Your abilities go way beyond math tests when you are being hired for a job. Personality, communication skills, and the ability to complete a task successfully and timely are just as important if not more important than your school rank. Many people who do not read US News and/or do not care about the ranking system regard CSUs as great preparation for the working world. For example, many of Californias employers hold Cal Poly San Luis Obispo very highly for agriculture, some engineering subspecialties, and architecture. From what I have read, Cal Poly has a fairly competitive admission process too. Many of you that are concerned about ranking schools based on how much your parents paid for you to attend will soon realize that in the working world US News rankings are not as important as you wish to believe. Productivity and personal satisfaction are much more important as measures of success than the title of your school.</p>
<p>"you must next place san diego state.</p>
<p>here's why:</p>
<ol>
<li>most Ph.D. programs in system, ten.</li>
<li>only CSU ranked by USNWR as a national university.</li>
<li>43% accept rate actually better than either cal poly.</li>
<li>largest b-school in the west and among best in CSU.</li>
<li>highly ranked communications program."</li>
</ol>
<p>I have to agree that SDSU is a forward-thinking CSU. SDSU has made some attempts to include practical graduate level training. I wasn't aware that they have 10 Ph.D programs, that is interesting. From what I know, a lot of industry affiliated people get extra degrees here to improve their knowledge base and earnings.
Sidenote: They have a great location near downtown SD. A lot of the younger undergrads party like rock stars which compensates for UCSD's lack thereof, at least from what I have seen.</p>
<p>09mom, please accept my apologies. My alma mater is (for some reason) a recurring target of criticism on CC and sometimes my posts reflect my exasperation. </p>
<p>"Spielberg got rejected from USC and ended up at CSU: Long Beach. "</p>
<p>He actually was rejected three separate times... though I'm sure the director of admissions for the Cinema-Television School during that period feels rather rueful. Luckily, USC realized the horrendous errors it had made and has given Spielberg an honorary degree. He, in turn, has campaigned his way on to USC's Board of Trustees and now is one of the most avid supporters (especially financially) and advocates of USC despite the school's initial shunnings.</p>
<p>susie, we are discussing universities, not accounting departments. yes, there is a very strong accounting program, and most of business such as finance for that matter, at fullerton. yet this school is so weak in engineering and computer science that it still needs warm bodies. fullerton is also strong in communications where i served as a professor. but to call it the best in the west? better than stanford? cal? UCLA? please.</p>
<p>drj, are we ranking the engineering school? then I agree with your comments. I guess I saw the word inferior and thought you meant the whole school. I meant the accounting program is the best in the west because Stanford and UCLA does not have accounting. I think the math/physics/chemistry department at CSUF is better than Cal Poly Pomona.The CS at Cal Poly was not formed when I was there so I don't think it's that good.</p>
<p>SusieQ, CSUF doesn't come close to having the best accounting program in the West. The Leventhal School of Accounting @ USC is undeniably tops... and even 4th in the nation (US News). Next falls Berkeley. That aside, even the best accounting program just of the CSU's is at Northridge; it boasted the higest CPA pass rate in the nation at one point. Perhaps after that comes CSUF.</p>
<p>susie, the length of time a program is in place does not necessarily equate with quality. the fact that the older computer science program at fullerton is still looking for warm bodies to fill seats while cal poly pomona has closed out an impacted program surely suggests at the very least which program is more popular if not better. furthermore, the even newer collins school at CPP is ranked second nationally only to cornell university of the ivy league, and fullerton has nothing even close to that standing anywhere. i think giants' assessment of the top CSUs overall is pretty accurate with SLO, san diego and pomona in the elite class. no, CSUs are not research I universities; they have a different mission on undergraduate and master's programs. the three schools above excel at that mission. the two state polytechnic universities, among only six in the nation that include VPI and RPI, have the unique mission of applied research and teaching particularly in technical fields such as engineering and architecture.</p>
<p>obviously, each CSU has certain strengths. the top CSUs such as those above, are distinguished virtually across the board as reflected by the faculty pedigree and publications. at pomona, for example, most of the engineering faculty have earned terminal degrees from MIT, Cal Tech, Princeton, Stanford, and similar schools.</p>
<p>students aspiring to top tier graduate programs need not attend a UC to be considered. many CSU students, particularly at the top campuses, have gone on to graduate programs in pac ten, big ten, and even ivy league schools and excelled at that level.</p>
<p>themegastud, are you a little biased? I really don't know about accounting since I've been out of this field for a long time. However, my sister who is a CPA, MBA, and has been Director of SEC reporting for some big corp, as well as work at a few big 13 accouting firms, told me about CSUF won some Mock(??) competition. She also worked with and trained a lot of USC people and I don't know if she agrees with you about USC accounting department, but USC has a very strong Alumni network.
drj, thanks for the information about Cal Poly CS department, I've just recently interviewed with someone who graduated in 1987 with a CS degree and told me Cal Poly did not have CS until then. However, this person is doing very well and thanks to that I got hired(Cal Poly connection). So I guess Cal Poly CS must be good!</p>
<p>yes, it's very strong but not regarded as strong as cal poly san luis opisbo for most technical fields like computer science. as for accounting yes USC is distinguished and moving into the elite category--and that is across the board and not just in business. among the CSUs san diego, long beach, fullerton, san luis and pomona are all very good. all of these programs have exceptionally high CPA pass rates.</p>
<p>SusieQ, I admittedly may be somewhat biased when it comes to matters of subjective judgment involving USC but this is not a subjective instance at all. I'm merely stating facts. The information presented in US News is there for you (and your sister) to see that USC Leventhal is 4th in the nation and CLEARLY the best in the west in terms of accounting. With you relying on second-hand information from your CSUF-alumna sister, am I the only biased one here?</p>
<p>themegastud, well technically we could be biased. US News information is not that reliable, that is why I said the "Mock Trial" Competition. When I see my sister next, I will ask her the specific detail about this competition. By the way the reason I don't think my sister is biased because she did not get her accounting degree with CSUF, she got her MBA there. She got her undergraduate in accounting from BYU, I guess it is also a good school in business.</p>
<p>CSUF accounting best in the west?! I think that title belongs to USC Leventhal without question.</p>
<p>Also a mock competition means nothing (I would like to see who they competed with). USC Marshall won the major annual case competition in 2001 against the top b-schools in the world (wharton, copenhagen, berkeley, etc) and won. Does that make them the best business school in the world?</p>
<p>afterhours, base on what objective data. I'm not doubting you but I would like some objective data please.</p>
<p>What objective data? I don't think there was any study done in the past to compare CSUF to Levethal:) Not in the same league.</p>
<p>No, I'm not saying comparing CSUF and Levethal, but what make Levethal the best accounting school in the West, base on what, percentage of students pass the CPA exam, there must be something and not heresay.</p>
<p>Susie, again I would have to point to US News. Are it's methodologies flawless? Certainly not - I personally think the best public schools should be ranked higher. But is it objective? Yes; and the methodology argument doesn't come into play here because Leventhal dominates CSUF so much in the rankings that any methodology shift would not place CSUF above USC. I wish I could point to Businessweek or the Wall Street Journal but they only rank graduate programs (though they have very favorable things to say about USC Accounting at the grad level). As it stands, US News is one of the only two objective rankings (that I know of) that handle undergraduate accounting programs. According to "About Leventhal" on their website, "Public Accounting Report" also ranks Leventhal as 4th in the nation, and many other accounting schools talk about their ranking in "Public Accounting Report" but unfortunately, I can't find their own website to point out these rankings to you directly. If you know of others, let me know.</p>
<p>If you want other sources, I'm sure you could ask any accounting recruiter who dominates out west and most would say USC. I've heard them say so in presentations plently of times here, and while I'd normally be skeptical and just think they were playing to the audience, the rankings back it up. I also recall a poster on CC who, when USC's academic excellence was called into doubt, let it be known he was a recruiter for PwC and expounded on how USC grads saturate the local Big 4 offices and LA business in general.</p>
<p>The simple fact is US News places USC Leventhal directly behind Wharton (yes, Wharton) for accounting. That's a huge statement. Further, Leventhal, after Cinema-Television, is likely USC's strongest school. Another strong statement. Also, and I realize this is isn't exactly weighty evidence but it should still be considered, just look at their websites! CSUF Accounting talks about how its AACSB accredited and lauds itself for that (any credible b-school is AACSB accredited). Leventhal talks about how it's top 5 in the nation. You see where I'm going here?</p>
<ol>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>UCLA</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>UCSD</li>
<li>USC</li>
<li>UCSB</li>
<li>UCD</li>
<li>UCI</li>
<li>UCSC</li>
<li>UCR</li>
<li>UCM</li>
</ol>