Let's talk about class rank

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm trying to get a feel for the way my daughter's school does rank as opposed to other schools.</p>

<p>So let's say your daughter/son is in 10th grade. 9th graders can't take AP classes. They have three levels of classes that are considered college prep - Level 1 - Advanced (some other schools seem to call this Pre-AP), Level 2 - Honors, and Level 3 - College Prep. A huge chunk of kids take Level 1 - Advanced. Those are the kids who will end up taking a lot of AP classes junior and senior year. Each level is weighted when it comes to class rank, so of course, someone in Advanced classes with the same GPA as someone in Honors classes will have a higher rank.</p>

<p>If your child had a 3.22 GPA in 9th grade in Level 2 - honors classes, at what % would you think her class rank would be?</p>

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<p>our school does not rank. Personally, I am gratefull for that. Just for the example you are giving: stressing out about a rank in 9th grade!<br>
but, given that: I think the only way you can get an answer is to ask your school GC. Colleges will not compare one rank and another rank from different schools. They will know what the ranking means within your own school as it compares other students within that one school. Otherwise, I suppose they really just look at the rigour of the classes and if your child succeeded in those classes—and challenged themselves.</p>

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<p>In our school your DD wouldn’t be above about 50% or so. Our school doesn’t weight grades but weights rank and without taking the top level classes, they can’t get above 50% or so because of all the kids that do take those classes. As for exactly what the rank it, I couldn’t answer that because your grade in the class factors into their formula some how so someone with an A in that class is going to rank higher than someone with a B in that class.</p>

<p>Basically your child is a B student not taking the most rigorous classes. Your child should be considering state directional schools or lower ranked private schools for match type schools in the search process. The “colleges for the 3.0 student” thread will be a great place to get ideas. Also, test scores are going to matter, a lot. If she ends up with an ACT/SAT that matches her GPA, great, makes it a lot easier. If she throws off a high ACT/SAT, makes the selection process a bit harder but I would still lean toward colleges that match her GPA, not her test scores.</p>

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<p>In my sons school, your DD would have been above the 50% rank, probably in the 25% ranking, maybe in 15% rank. Yep, very little motivation in my sons school.</p>

<p>So it is all going to depend on the school as well as the student population.</p>

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<p>SteveMA’s suggestion that the child will fall around the mid-point of the class in rank is likely similiar to how it shakes down at our high school too. Out of class sizes of around 500, the straight A students taking unweighted classes tend to rank around #100-125.</p>

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<p>But it depeds on your hs and grade distribution there.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input, I’m trying to compare her school to others and see if hers is unusually competitive or if that’s just the way it is these days.</p>

<p>She wasn’t supposed to see her rank until junior year. She gets help once a week with study skills and the teacher had my daughter’s file open. My daughter saw the rank, and she is at 58%. :(</p>

<p>That wasn’t a complete shock to me. I knew a lot of kids were taking higher ranked classes. I suspect that my daughter’s classes are mostly the equivalent of the classes right below AP in some other schools. But that doesn’t help her if half of her school (at least) takes the higher ranked classes.</p>

<p>This is what she can handle. She is taking one advanced class this year, however. She’ll probably take 2 junior and senior year. She is very disheartened because she worked her butt off last year and the best she could do was 3.22/58% rank. She sees kids not trying anywhere near as hard as her do better. </p>

<p>She feels like she’s stupid. I suspect she’s of average intelligence, but going to an above-average high school with a lot of highly motivated AP kids. Nothing at all wrong with average intelligence, but nothing’s easy for her. There is nothing she shines at, or is even above average at. I’m not just talking about academics. She loves theatre, but never gets a part other than ensemble. She used to love soccer, but could barely keep up with junior varsity last year and didn’t go out for it this year. She is shy and has a hard time making friends. </p>

<p>She was very upset and discouraged last night about the rank. And then she found out that 27 of 40 kids made the cast of a play, but she wasn’t one of them. It was the last straw. She went to bed early and didn’t say a word this morning. I’d like to tell her something encouraging, but I’m really not sure what to say.</p>

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<p>IN 9th grade or that same GPA as weighted in spring of 11th?</p>

<p>Your daughters GPA in our school based on her class schedule would be an 87 on our scale she would be in top 30%. We give no weight for any class not an ap. Kids with averages that are high 80-to 90(3.2-3.5) range usually are in top 30%. Our top 10% kids are crunched in the 3.9-4.0 area.(95 being a 4.0)</p>

<p>All classes (your 3 levels) are weighted exactly the same in our school. A 90 is a 90.
When a child receives a 95 or greater in an AP class, (no AP till 10th grade and majority will only take one or two tops in 10th) will now add 1 full point to his/her GPA at end of year. A 3.2 becomes a 3.3</p>

<p>We have small grades current senior class is 180 kids</p>

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<p>Sami, that’s her GPA/rank after 9th grade. </p>

<p>And yeah, I know she could raise her grades, rank, etc. But realistically, 9th grade was the easiest. A lot of her grades were influenced by homework, projects, extra credit. To her credit, she took advantage of that and did all her homework, did well on her projects, did her extra credit. But from now on, there is much more emphasis on testing - which I agree with. That’s what college is like and they need to be prepared.</p>

<p>But she stinks at testing. In fact, if you took her mid-term and final grades out of the mix last year, she’d probably have a 3.4 or 3.5 gpa. So realistically, I don’t see her GPA going up. I’ll never say that to her, and I’ll always encourage her, but I have to admit the truth to myself, at least.</p>

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<p>My neighbors D was having a rough patch around that age, for similar reasons. She started to volunteer at a local org that accepted HS kids to volunteer during year, summers etc. This kid BLOSSOMED from her time volunteering. Perhaps their is something locally? GC usually have lists of things/orgs that she could look into. Not everyone LOVES the high school scene, and find themselves outside those four walls.</p>

<p>this is the org my neighbors daughter went to:
[AHRC-Become</a> a Volunteer](<a href=“http://www.ahrc.org/page.aspx?pid=598]AHRC-Become”>http://www.ahrc.org/page.aspx?pid=598)</p>

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<p>Our school ranks honors and AP classes the same, your kid would probably be in the top third of the class.</p>

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<p>Just an FYI,</p>

<p>the kids at our school in this range, will go to schools that are good schools, Adelphi, St. John’s Hofstra, Quinipiac. </p>

<p>She just needs to find something she enjoys to do, a gets a confidence boost. </p>

<p>I always found kids such as your daughter great helping out with little kids, little ones are great ego boosters for young teen girls.</p>

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<p>She would love to volunteer at the local SPCA, but you have to be 16. She’ll be 16 in March, but she’ll need a ride there, so there will be limited hours that she could do it. Even when she gets her license, we don’t have an extra car she could use - we both work full-time. </p>

<p>She does love little kids. I think at some point I may ask her gc directly about volunteer opportunities. I know that right now my daughter feels overwhelmed with school and is going to feel that adding one more thing to her plate will be too much. </p>

<p>It’s good to hear that kids with her stats are going to decent schools. I’m thinking realistic choices for her will be Millersville, Bloomsburg, West Chester. I’m trying to avoid commuter schools because I know the school spirit/classic college experience would do her a lot of good. Penn State has always been her dream school (Univ Park) but barring a miracle, that isn’t happening.</p>

<p>Yeah, I know it’s too early to obsess about colleges. But she is the one who thinks about it all the time. I shut my mouth and just get it all out on these boards. lol It just feels like she is about to give up because she feels like all that effort didn’t get her anywhere. I don’t want her to give up. I want to give her realistic encouragement.</p>

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<p>Just keep her plugging along. If your HS is like ours, 10th/11th grade is a killer for those without work ethic. So if she keeps doing what she is doing, the other kids interest in academics start to slip(socializing becomes a BIG BIG draw) and she may surprise you.</p>

<p>My 2 older kids always hovered around the 90-92 range, they were worker bees, not superstars, had to work for their grades. They kept bumping up the rank scale each year. My oldest was ranked 38 out of 225 in beginning of 11th grade, when applying to college fall rank went to 22 out of 225, her grades did not change the other kids grades did.</p>

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<p>I understand exactly how you feel! I have a daughter like yours, though not as smart. Our district is filled with really high-achieving kids. She works very hard, but it doesn’t produce the level of achievement that’s going to enable her to break the average mark here, because the bar is high. It’s no one’s fault and I understand that by definition most people ARE average, but I feel that in our district the extra-curricular part will hurt her most for college admissions. She should be able to get A’s and B’s in mid level classes. But the talented students here tend to be talented in many areas. So the kids who get the solos in band are the same ones in the AP classes and the very same ones who get elected club officers. The colleges are looking for more than just participation. They want leadership and initiative, and they like to see a progression in an EC, such as from jv to varsity to varsity captain, or from club member to secretary, to VP, to President. D will stay an ordinary member. I feel that maybe in a smaller school, or different state she’d be better off.</p>

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<p>GFG, your daughter sounds exactly like mine! She’s not a star. She’s not a leader. She isn’t going to go from junior varsity to varsity or become the president of a club. She has a horrific time with math and science; she’s okay with english and history and french but not outstanding. She sees a bunch of kids who are great singers/very outgoing/varsity level athletes/all advanced classes and she feels inadequate.</p>

<p>She is being very diligent about her first Level 1 - Advanced class (US History to 1860) - taking notes, going over flash cards every night - and I just hope she is rewarded for her effort when she takes her first test in that class next week. I’d like to her to have some sense of accomplishment.</p>

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<p>SansSerif–there is a 4.0 student in our kids’ class that is ranked in the bottom 50% of the class because she has never taken an advanced/honors/AP class. For her, it’s all about sports so she wants the time to devote to her sport. She has since come to realize that the college coaches don’t want her because of her lack of effort in the classroom :D. Your DD is in a MUCH better position than she is.</p>

<p>Our high school is highly competitive. The kids in the top 20% or so take 4-6 AP’s a year and by senior year are taking mostly college courses run through the flagship. By the end of junior year, generally about 300 out of 500 kids are AP scholars or higher so not only are they taking the classes, they are doing well in the classes. The average ACT score in our high school, with about 90% of the kids taking the ACT is over 25, just for reference. We still have 96% of our kids go on to 4 year colleges, including the kids with the 3.0’s and lower test scores. Not only are they going to college but they are doing well in college. </p>

<p>Don’t let a class rank get you down. Focus on the right schools for your DD (USNWR has a list–surprising I know-of A+ schools for the B student–great place to start looking).</p>

<p>Focus on the positives, hard worker, great study habits, etc. Our senior son has terrible study habits and we worry about him going off to college. He never studies, everything comes easy to him. He is the kind of kid that hears something once and remembers it (except to clean his room for some reason :D). Our senior DD has to study for her grades and works a lot harder. She will find college much easier as a result. Their GPA’s are almost identical, their test scores are about the same, but how they got there is very different.</p>

<p>The #1 student in their class works her rear off for her grades. She has dropped all EC’s to study to maintain her 4.0. She got a 24 on the ACT. You just never know.</p>

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<p>SanaSerif-</p>

<p>My middle daughter was sandwiched between 2 brothers. Two huge athletic and brainy brothers. All 1 year apart. She was in sibling rivarly hell since her little brother was born!</p>

<p>She worked diligently at all her academics but never took an AP course, all honors. She worked hard at whatever sport she tried, never missed a practice, was not always the best BUT she ALWAYS showed up. Her younger brother ended up graduating with 17 APs and class val. Her older brother had similar stats. You would think she would have just given up, she has a reading disability that slowed down her processing speed.</p>

<p>But to me she was a star. She could run circles around her brothers. She was/is street smart, quick to observe, adapt and improvise. Seeing her strengths not through an academic focus but as a person made me realize her talents would take her far.</p>

<p>She changed from one sport to another at the beginning of high school. She did not excel at first, she just showed up every day and worked hard, setting aside more time to improve what she COULD improve upon. Her diligence was rewarded with not just imrpovement skill-wise but with her being elected captain. She knew what it was like to struggle and could relate to everyone on the team, not just the superstars.</p>

<p>She took that confidence and translated into other areas. Some people are just born leaders and others get there quietly, slowly but they do get there. That’s where the growth comes in, and that occurs when they put themselves outside their comfort zone.</p>

<p>Encourage your daughter to try new subjects, even ones she thinks she might suck at. Seriously. Same daughter with reading disability had finished her 2 years of Spanish, working hard but struggling. Switched to Latin and LOVED it.</p>

<p>Fast forward to college…she gets offered a D1 scholarship for athletics but turns it down for the academic merit scholarship offered instead (same school), majors in classics, minors in Latin and graduated magna cum laude with an honors thesis completion. Her SAT scores were substantially lower than her brothers’ and yet she graduated with a HIGHER college GPA.</p>

<p>She found a university where she thrived and took adavantage of all they had to offer. She did clinical research at their med school, she took flamenco dance, Navajo, attended tribal dances, switched sports AGAIN and went to nationals. She tried new things and continued to grow.</p>

<p>Squished between her 2 brothers and much farther down rank-wise than them in high school was hard for her but with my constant cheer leading and belief there was/is so much more to her than stats…she did in fact become that shining star.</p>

<p>Good luck to her and my very best wishes.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>SteveMA, your school sounds like ours - except I think 40% of the school takes APs, not 60%. Otherwise, very similar. </p>

<p>I always thought it was good we lived in this kind of school district. Lately, though, I’ve wondered if it’s really been good for my daughter.</p>

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<p>Our school ranks honors and AP classes the same.</p>

<p>I was #8 in class of 663.
I had 10 AP classes. (the most at our school)
4.00 UWGPA (4.67 WGPA)</p>

<h1>1 only with a few AP classes didn’t get to UCB, he went to UCLA</h1>

<p>I was #8, got to all UC, but decided to go to UCSD.</p>

<p>Ranking doesn’t matter, when you apply to college.
EC and passion does.</p>