LibArts vs. Ivy League

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<p>My physics teacher and I talk about this, too! He is a very strong Christian and I am an agnostic (for now -- I'm staying openminded :)) and so we always have very interesting things to talk about. Our views on pretty much every issue are complete antitheses of each other but I love debating with him. Anyway, I digress. My point was -- your comment made me love Swat <em>even</em> more, which I didn't know was possible.</p>

<p>It gets harder and harder not to choose Swat everyday (I just received my finaid package, which is, in short -- incredible) but I'm also in love with the other schools I was admitted to. This is very difficult. :(</p>

<p>babybelugawhale, has all this info helped you at all? i'm interested to know what you think, now that you've had all this feedback.</p>

<p>"Incidentally, you may not have realized this, but Swarthmore's Quaker tradition has a big effect on the culture of the school. For example, the egalitarian values of that tradition have the effect of discouraging displays of wealth among the student body. You will not see students wearing Ralph Lauren polos or carrying designer handbags. I do not know what things are like at Brown, but here at Stanford Law School, where most of the students went to prestigious, big-name universities, students are clearly competing to show off how rich their parents are."</p>

<p>Thank you for this comment, JER. I hadn't realized that this was truie of Swat. I'm going to keep it in mind for my S, now only 13, and pass the information on to a friend who has a very bright 10th grader and is trying to compile a list of schools.</p>

<p>^^^
Wow, the college search is starting earlier and earlier. At 13 I still had illusions of playing baseball for Stanford...hah.</p>

<p>Wait a minute, NJPitcher! Aren't 13-year baseball players from Jersey supposed to dream about pitching for the Yankees?</p>

<p>m_c, I wasn't trying to influence you (consciously) there. But this is a very interesting aspect of being at Swat. These kids usually discuss things like this without a tinge of being self-conscious or pompous. Not having much knowledge of student life in other universities, I can't comment about other places. I myself love conversations like this but way way back when in India, when I was a college student, I was labeled something which was the equivalent of being a nerd here.....it was not the norm.</p>

<p>ID - Mets fan here, and believe me, those dreams were there, I just wanted a college ring or two before I went big time :)</p>

<p>Hi, NJPitcher,</p>

<p>I'm not really searching for colleges for my 7th grader! But last fall, when he was 12, he asked me to find out what he could do between ages 12 and 18 to make sure he got into MIT. Searching around MIT's website led to a weekend trip to Cambridge so that he could attend an annual weekend they have for MS and HS students, where he took courses on things like number theory and vector spaces all day Saturday and Sunday. This only confirmed his determination to go there. In the meantime, I searched for ways to make his MS and HS years more than a dark tunnel with MIT as the shining light at the end. This is how I found CC, which is the best source I've found for information and advice on resources and programs for academically inclined MS students. I also have friends with children in HS, and I am an advisor to our HS science program, so I am able to pass on what I learn here to people with more immediate needs. Another benefit: I learned that even if he does everything "right", my son will have at best a 20% chance of admission to MIT. I would have thought that he would be admitted easily (assuming that he continues on his present path). I've let him in on this, and read with him a few articles I've found here. He now has a realistic sense of the situation and accepts it, and we have avoided a rude awakening 5 years down the line.</p>

<p>I should also add that I'm not at all sure that MIT would be the best place for him. He is very math- and science-oriiented, but is also intensely interested in the mock trial team, history, languages, and ethics. I'm intrigued by what I'm learning about Swarthmore. In any case, it will be his decision. I'm very grateful for the wisdom that all of you share so freely.</p>

<p>Haha NYM, I was just making a general comment about how early the process starts. I wish I'd known a little more about the process from the beginning to be honest; would've made life much less hectic over the past 8 months. I didn't even discover Swarthmroe until October (and even then it was largely due to my mom's initial interest in Haverford - my dad and I read up and decided we liked Swat better :)).</p>

<p>As someone who grew up within the Ivy walls -- I remember asking my faculty father, "Who prepares students for you better than anyone else?"</p>

<p>He said: Williams, Swarthmore, Amherst, Carleton, Pomona, Grinnell and U Chic.</p>

<p>Does this tell you anything about the professor's perspective of the difference between Ivy and LAC? Amazingly, his 3 teenage children listened to him and attended LAC's. And, the one who transferred to Ivy after two years at LAC admits it may have been the biggest mistake in her life -- unless you are counting the first husband.</p>

<p>Sorry to interrupt, but this thread reads rather strangely now that, apparently, kellymegreener has been deleted. Isn't it wonderful?</p>

<p>Father of the Boarder: That is a somewhat eclectic list of LACs. (I realize U of C isn't an LAC.) Do you mind saying what department your father taught in? Did he feel that those schools prepared students best in his particular area, or in general?</p>

<p>My son (rising junior) is taking an intro psych class at a university this summer, mixed in with mostly college kids. Although the class is small (only 20 kids) the format is straight lecture. The instructor does stop to answer questions if the kids have them. When I asked my son if there is ever any discussion, he said he couldn't imagine how there could be discussion. There is just lots of information being presented. I'm curious whether Swarthmore and other small LAC's would even have discussion in a basic intro psych type of class?</p>

<p>Yes they would for various classes.</p>

<p>The vast majority of courses at Swarthmore, including freshman courses and especially freshman seminars, are discussion-based.</p>

<p>However, Intro Psych may be one of the exceptions. It is a lecture-based course that also requires some small discussion sections led by various professors. I think it's actually one of those courses that smart Swatties try to work into their schedules to balance courseloads that are very demanding in terms of discussion and preparation. Four seminars or small discussion classes at the same time would be killer.</p>

<p>In general, Intro Psych is universally taught as lecture course just about everywhere.</p>

<p>Thanks--what about science classes? Obviously, there would be discussion and "hands-on" activity during the labs, but would the other part be primarily lecture at a small LAC like Swarthmore?</p>

<p>Bio 001 and 002, the intro Bio classes, and Chem 10, general chemistry, are usually pretty large as well (about 100ish people or so). Those are probably the largest lecture classes that Swat offers.</p>

<p>Depends on the science department. The intro Bio and Chem and Physics courses for non-majors are going to be large, but with lab sections led by professors. </p>

<p>The Physics department has a department wide cap on class sizes. I don't remember the exact number -- something like 25 to 30 students, except for the general intro course which has 60. The first semester course for potential Physics majors is a seminar on the Theory of Special Relativity and Quantuum Mechanics. They have been teaching three sections of it, capped at 15 students per section. It meets for three hours, one night a week and is centered around students presenting problem sets to the class. I think that's pretty much what physics majors can expect for most of their courses.</p>

<p>They taught two sections of the basic intro Chem class last fall -- one with 50 and the other with 28 students. The lab sections were capped at 20 students. They also taught two sections of the honors intro course in seminar format, capped at 12. I'm guessing this is like the physics department -- mostly potential chem majors in these intro seminars, as opposed to the premeds, bio, and engineering majors.</p>

<p>The intro bio course was the one course at Swat last year reported with 100 or more students. Looks like the lab sections are officially capped at 10, although that number looks small to me...there are only five sections listed, so it may be 20 in reality.</p>

<p>The other largish lecture courses are Intro Psych and the basic survey of Western Art course -- looking at slides lends itself to a lecture format.</p>

<p>Thanks! We will probably visit Swarthmore this year. Is that information (about class size, caps of classes/labs, etc.) available somewhere for anyone or do you just have it because your daughter goes to Swarthmore?</p>

<p>The Haverford intro psych course appears to have 25 students in a section. Bryn Mawr seems to cap an Intro Psych course at 96 students. I cannot find the number in the Swat course, but it is a good question to ask when you are there. It probably really varies by school, the large public universities probably are all larger size, but again, those are good questions to ask when you visit, and also how the students liked the closses, regardless of size. </p>

<p>I had a very good Intro (Inorganic) Chem course at a large public university, which was a year-long course. Although there were probably at least 200 students in the lectures, my TA was wonderful, as was lab section. The head professor was very interesting. But that was a long time ago! I don't know if public university students now have such good experinces overall as I had in all of my subjects.</p>

<p>My son much prefers the small size of the majority of his classes at Swarthmore, where he attends. I was just a large public university type of person, and I know college students who are happy at both LACs and large publics now. You just have to visit!</p>

<p>NJ Mom,</p>

<p><a href="http://www.trico.haverford.edu/cgi-bin/courseguide/cgi-bin/search.cgi%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.trico.haverford.edu/cgi-bin/courseguide/cgi-bin/search.cgi&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This is the web site where you can see how classes are caped, how many students were enrolled in classes in the spring semester, and how many are registered for classes in the fall (this does not include freshmen who will be registering during orientation and have spaces reserved for them). (You have to click on "registration ID" link on the right to see info for each class. Also searching can be a little tricky because of the way the departments are called in different schools. For example, if you search "Anthropology" under Swarthmore, there will be no classes listed, because their dept is called "Sociology and Anthropology", etc.)</p>