I know that many liberal arts colleges have 3/2 programs with schools like Wash U and Case - but it seems crazy to me that you would do 3 years at a school like Grinnell or Kenyon and then transfer junior year and do 2 more years - 5 years total - just to get your BS in Engineering.
Seems like if you have a kid who thinks she may want to do engineering she should just go to a school that has that has engineering. The 3/2 programs seem more like marketing around the fact LAC don’t have engineering. Transferring junior year, not graduating with your friends and doing a 5th just for a BS in engineering seems like a bad deal.
There are some liberal arts schools who offer engineering as a 2/1/1/1 program. So you do you junior year at another school while classmates may be doing junior year abroad, then come back senior year and graduate with your class and then do a 5th year back at the partner university That seems better than a 3/2 program.
I think the 3/2 programs are good for kids who aren’t really sure about engineering. If your student knows for sure they want engineering, I agree that they are better off going elsewhere.
I also want to point out that not all LACs have 3/2s. Schools like Bucknell are liberal arts colleges but still have traditional 4 year pathways to engineering degrees. So, there are options for students who want a small LAC feel but not the extra year towards the degree.
A 3/2 program does work for some people so I would not want to label all of these programs “bad” – however, most posters on CC, myself included, are generally not fans of these programs. The reason is that many students who start on that path do not follow through for various reasons including (but not limited to):
-They are happy at their LAC and want to graduate with the class.
-They did not meet the requirements to make the transfer.
-Finances don’t work (ex. can’t afford the fifth year of undergraduate studies).
So, if anyone is considering a a 3/2 program I’d recommend they do a great deal of research into 1) what percentage of students who start in the program follow through with it 2) what is required to make the transfer (ex. courses, GPA) and 3) how it will be financed.
FWIW Union College is also is a LAC with engineering
You mention LACs with 3/2 programs, but your subject line mentions LACs in general. I will give my opinion renthe LAC question.
Yes, there are great engineering schools like Georgia Tech. However there are also phenomenal LACs who have ABET certified engineering programs.
There are many reasons students choose their colleges. So long as the program is ABET certified, then the student should have the knowledge to enter into their chosen engineering career with success.
Seems like the students who are least sure of engineering are the ones least likely to be careful of jumping through all of the hoops to make the transfer in a 3+2 program, so that they will be even less likely to complete an engineering degree than intending 3+2 students overall.
But there are LACs with ABET-accredited engineering majors, as well as small engineering-focused schools (both public like SDSMT, NMT, CSM, MUST, etc. and private (Caltech, IL Tech, RHIT, MSoE, Stevens, etc.). Harvey Mudd arguably fits into both LAC and small engineering-focused school categories.
I used to adjunct at a school with a 3-2 program. It wasn’t particularly popular, but we did have students who did their 3 years and transferred to engineering schools to get their degree. The program resulted in 2 Bachelor’s degrees - one in engineering from the transfer school and one in business from the LAC. In addition to getting both degrees, the courses at the LAC were much smaller and more personal than those at the typical engineering schools to which these students transferred.
As for people starting and not finishing, that holds true at regular engineering schools as well. Many students transfer to other majors because they are not cut out for engineering. In addition, many, many students take more than 8 semesters to finish.
Even though it is not the most popular route, I certainly don’t see 3-2 programs as intrinsically a bad deal.
And Smith is a great LAC with engineering too, if you are female.
I know a kid who planned a 3/2 but decided to do 4 at the LAC (had a full scholarship) then did a post-grad BS/Eng and MS program. He’s very happily engineering at a large aerospace company now.
I can see a number of reasons to do a 3-2 program, particularly at a LAC. I’m a great proponent of LACs in terms of nurturing students and giving them attention that is unlikely to happen at large schools. Engineering has a tough curriculum with a lot of drop outs. THat extra year to get through the program (something a number of engineering programs are adding anyways) and the two years of excellent academic prep and support can bolster a student’s chances in getting through what is a very rigorous course of study.
There’re also the 4+1 program with Haverford/Bryn Mawr and UPenn. You do four years at H or BMC and then a final year at UPenn for a BA and Masters degree, both.
What I like about LACs for starting out, especially with the teaching philosophies as H and BMC, is that the students are nurtured and closely involved in the program. There aren’t weeder classes with, you know, 200+ people in a lecture hall. The students also graduate with their LAC class instead of missing out.
Engineering programs are generally nominally 4-year programs, though not-as-strong students often take extra semester(s) or year(s).
But 3+2 programs are nominally 5-year programs, so the not-as-strong students may take more than 5 years to complete them. Remember that the extra year is filled with doing a liberal arts major at the LAC, rather than taking light loads in an engineering program.
A student who wants a regular 4 year engineering program in a small school can choose a LAC with native engineering (e.g. Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore), a small engineering-focused school (e.g. Caltech, South Dakota Mines), or a small university with engineering (e.g. Tuskegee, Kettering).
Students rarely actually execute a 3-2 program. If a student wants to be an engineer, they should attend a school that offers an engineering degree. As shown in other posts above, there are quite a few LACs that offer a 4 year engineering degree.
OP. one of the most brilliant people I have ever met, did a liberal arts degree at Dartmouth with a focus in engineering. Went to Stanford for a masters in engineering and then after a few years went to medical school. Now a top orthopedic surgeon. Brilliant people can mine a liberal arts degree to make it work for them.
The more common 5+ year approach is probably completing a science or CS degree at the LAC, then pursuing a master’s in engineering at a different college after having completed the bachelor’s degree. For example, Wiliiam’s website at https://physics.williams.edu/pre-engineering/ states,