<p>Somehow I'd find it more interesting to learn what folks think of as their top five LACs. Since nearly everyone is recycling the same 25 and repositioning them, it has little relevance when it's all said and done. In the true sense of a LIBERAL ARTS College, where broad-based learning experience is valued over all else, here are my top five in alpha order:</p>
<p>Bard
Bates
Reed
Sarah Lawrence
Wellesley
William and Mary
(Okay, that makes six. So shoot me. If you're a guy, that's really only a list of five anyway!)</p>
<p>And while I respect Wesleyan, which has shown up on so many of your LAC lists, Wes considers itself a University, and that is indeed it's name. To include Wesleyan you'd open yourself up to other LA Universities, like Yale, and the rest of the top-twenty-five.</p>
<p>You don't have to agree with it. But if you're truly interested in a Liberal Arts education, all those stats about Piled Higher and Deeper (PHD) degrees are meaningless. Lifetime earnings don't mean a thing. Grad school acceptance isn't considered. If these are your ideas of what make a LAC "best", then say so and let stats, only, do the talking. Forget growth, maturity, knowledge for the sake of knowledge, social consciousness,....(spelling!)</p>
<p>Yale offers a much, much wider range of graduate degrees than Wesleyan. Part of everybody including Wesleyan is that US News says its an LAC. Also, a number of LACs have university in the title, such as Lawrence University in Wisconsin. Proud Dad, you're a goofball. A phD shows a level of academic achievment that should be considered. They weren't saying that phD percentage should be the only thing considered, but it does show that the schools graduates are academically well prepared for further advancement. as for that cute little Piled Higher and Deeper thing, it's stupid. A phD is not a meaningless degree.</p>
<p>Proud Dad: Wesleyan, while it considers itself a "University," is actually a liberal arts college. keeping wesleyan in doesn't open yourself up to "other LA universities," are they aren't defined as such. Wes is always ranked as an LAC because it is one. it has 2,800 undergrads and some 200 grads. williams has 2,000 undergrads and maybe 25-50 grads. surely williams is an LAC. it is an LAC that happens to call itself a university, just like Dartmouth calls itself a college, yet is actually a research university and is ranked as one.</p>
<p>Proud Dad, there's nothing wrong with valuing, say, "maturity" in a college. The problem is it's hard to define, and even harder for one person to know every LAC in the country well enough to gauge it. There are other areas which are also valuable and much easier to measure. Some of the schools that you listed, in fact, have a reputation (true or false) as being more geared towards ambitious students trying to get ahead than those looking for a good "learning experience." You obviously have the right to your preferences, but until you can show that you are in some way competent to judge the qualities you listed in all of these schools you shouldn't be bashing anyone elses criteria.</p>
<p>
[quote]
part of everybody including Wesleyan is that US News says it's an LAC.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The New Carnegie Foundation classification (which USNews uses to assign its categories) moved Wesleyan out of the LAC category (renamed Baccalaureate) into a category that includes schools awarding more than a handful of Masters degress. Also no longer classified as "LACs" in the original release of the classifications were Middlebury, Bryn Mawr, Smith, and others. As you can imagine, these schools went ballistic. </p>
<p>Middlebury has successfully appealled, arguing that nearly all of their graduate degrees were awarded in special summer programs. I haven't heard word about the others, but USNews is reputed to be ready to use the new Carnegie Classification scheme in the 2008 edition, so there will certainly be some shakeups. In any event, this is a useful reminder about how fluid, even arbitrary the categories can be.</p>
<p>I'm not claiming to know anything. The question was what LAC you ranked in your top 25. These are my choices. I think it's important to understand the reason behind the question in the first place. Was it "best" by most successful graduates judged by career, graduate school placement, or income? What? I'm simply standing up for liberal arts education for its original intended purpose, without bias for career choices or professional degrees. To become a well-rounded adult with an understanding of humanity, art, music, history, and science. If you must know from where I get my opinions, I have degrees from two universities that are currently ranked in everyone's top twenty-five. I have a brother who was an honors grad from one of the HYPS universities, another from an LAC that is near the top of everyone's list (but not on mine) and I've been through the college search process with two children. If you're going to ask for opinions, then accept them as such. If you want statistics to prove a point, there are plenty to choose from. But the request was for individual opinions. If you ask Ann Coulter, she'd choose a different list (likely to include W&L), but that's not my list. I don't ask anyone to trust me, but to hold an open mind as to what education really means to them and what's really important in their lives. If that's grad school and lifetime accumulation of wealth, my choices may very well not be best for them. If you all have enough brains to be considering these schools you should be open-minded enough to accept contrary opinions and engage in sincere discussion of the merits of a Liberal Arts education.</p>
<p>i can't believe no one listed Wellesley at the top 3 of the list. why is this so? cos' it's a women's college? At any rate, Wellesley is THE BEST women's college in the nation and thus, it's definitely on-par with Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore in terms of the quality of education and prestige.</p>
<p>In fact, it's better known than the other 3 worldwide in general, so....</p>
<p>I think you need to take a step back and examine your tone and positions. No one here has said that income or grad school are the most important things that you can get out of college. You're the one who has been agressive and sarcastic in degrading the positions of others. You have done absolutely nothing to show that whatever education you got has prepared you to have a mature, "sincere discussion" on this subject.</p>
<p>The thing is, I agree with your actual points. I think grad school admissions and future income are horrible ways to assess a college, and that most rankings are completely meaningless. In my opinion most CC'ers place far too much weight on them. I agree with your ideas of what a liberal arts education should be about. Your way of promoting those ideas is generally obnoxious.</p>
<p>
[quote]
JP2249 wrote: You're the one who has been aggressive and sarcastic in degrading the positions of others. You have done absolutely nothing to show that whatever education you got has prepared you to have a mature, "sincere discussion" on this subject.
[/quote]
This amateur psychoanalysis on your part has no place here. I think most will judge yours the questionable tact. In reviewing what I wrote that must have set you off, I can only assume you're a Republican <g>. Let's get back on topic for those who really want help with their college decisions.</g></p>
<p>
[quote]
those stats about Piled Higher and Deeper (PHD) degrees are meaningless.
[/quote]
Not meaningless, but one must recognize the limitations of such statistics; they can be meaningful to those who want to do research and/or become academics. E.g., if a high school senior knows she wants to do biology research, then she might want to consider schools whose graduates historically go on to earn PhDs in biology at relatively high rates.</p>
<p>Pretty much exactly what I said, until you take it out of context. I wrote:
[quote]
If these are your ideas of what make a LAC "best", then say so and let stats, only, do the talking.
[/quote]
For that matter, I know a freshman undergraduate at Kenyon who will be doing biology research there under a grant this summer. I'm not saying the stats aren't important for those who know what specific field they want to pursue. The question was about liberal arts education.</p>
<p>I'm not familiar enough with that many LACs to create my own ranking of the top 25. It would be founded on a minimal amount of knowledge and thus be useless to CC members.</p>
<p>And my remark to Pomona being ranked higher is with regard to the USNews ranking, not yours or anyone else's.</p>
<p>EDIT: Actually, Curious Kid's ranking looks really good, though I think Bowdoin should make its way in there.</p>