<p>Hanna, I'm saving your post for reference.</p>
<p>Hanna-welcome to the the best college site. I have seen your posts for several years on some other similar sites.</p>
<p>Hanna, glad to see you are alive and kicking.</p>
<p>Well, though I haven't been to a college yet, I've heard a few things. For instance, a friend of mine attends UT-Austin and he doesn't like it because he says that it just feels like High School all over again--just bigger. Secondly, yeah, it would be pretty sweet to meet new people every day; I agree with that about universities. I mean, yeah you have a huge school, but you'll still have your group of friends, which will keep you from feeling lonely. </p>
<p>Now comes the hardcore academic portion of this discussion; if one is looking for a really intense research program that offers cutting edge technology, I'd recommend that they attend a large, research-oriented universities. However, if one would like to do close research with a professor, he/she should attend a LAC. In large universities, there is a lot of competition for those "professor-student" research positions, but at a LAC, the professors know the students personally and it's such a close-knit environment that almost everyone gets a chance to do research one-on-one with a professor. That is one of the main reasons I applied mainly to LACs. I recently got into Bates College with a hefty aid package, so I'll probably be going there, but I am not certain as of yet. </p>
<p>So, there you have it: my opinion. Whether it was correct or incorrect, it offered some input into the matter.</p>
<p>Hanna: Your post is excellent! My daughter is trying to figure out which type of school will suit her - she's a junior living overseas, born in the US but has lived overseas her whole life. We looked at a few schools last summer but she still doesn't have a clue as to what type suits her. I am going to ask her to read your post, print it out, and bring it along with her this summer when she visits more schools. Thanks!!!!!</p>
<p>This thread is like the answer to my prayers. I am myself trying decide btw Berkeley, Rice, Wesleyan, and BU (and maybe Tufts.) I don't know many people who went to LACs or have considered that option. Thank you to everyone for their input! All of this info has really helped.</p>
<p>Hanna,</p>
<p>I used to see your posts on the other board and wondered what had happened to you. Glad to see you're still around and kicking! I was guessing you didn't have time for college forums any more after being elevated to the federal bench (just kidding!)</p>
<p>Rice would be the best compromise. Wes is the quintessential LAC, Berkeley the big-name big school world-class university where undergrads really do have to get it themselves. Rice = university advantages with smaller, undergrad focus. If money and location were not important, this would be the perfect choice.
Now, as for Texas...</p>
<p>Thanks for the input everyone. I think I have a really good picture of the two now. BUT my main problem is that I don't know which environment is suited for me. I am used to having my hand held and don't really have initiative academically AND socially, so I might just languish in pbscurity at Berkeley. BUT, a place like Berkeley might just be what I need to cure me of that and to encourage growth in me, while Wesleyan, while more comfy and fun, might just hold me back in the long run.</p>
<p>I know you guys can't help me with THAT anymore, but I'm sure some of you are in a similar situation. I guess, what I need now is a good bout of soul-searching. BAH.</p>
<p>Hanna, that analogy kicked arse. Enough said.</p>
<p>A.S.A.P., that's exactly what I am thinking too. Rice seems like a compromise, plus, it's the highest ranked, in the best location, sends the most graduates to top law schools, nearest to our soon-to-be home, etc, etc... But, you're right, Texas is an issue. I don't know how conservative, white Texas is gonna receive a spoiled Phlippine-raised brat like me. Lol.</p>
<p>Not for nothing, but, do you really want to move to the U.S. and spend all of your time in one section of the country? :/</p>
<p>While you're considering environment, consider also your own learning style. (I posted this on another thread; please excuse the repetition, but it seemed appropriate here as well.) Do you enjoy class discussions, debates and give and take? Do you need interaction in your classes? If so, an LAC may be better. Or do you sit quietly, taking tons of notes, and just take in what's being said to you? Then a university with large lectures may be fine for you.</p>
<p>This thread is great! </p>
<p>Currently, I'm very torn between Harvard and Williams (among others). Oh, the tradeoffs!</p>
<p>Good one, Hanna! My daughter likes Northwestern and Davidson. We've visited Davidson a couple times - the students are great, the conversation is stimulating, the faculty invite students home for dinner and the townspeople bake them cookies. If only the world could be so perfect. Of course D is a musician, so she'd have to do the B.A., then cobble together a performance and lesson plan out of the varied offerings of the campus and surrounding community with the help of a mentoring teacher.</p>
<p>We're visiting NWern over three days next month. No, all the Music faculty are not going to stop what they're doing to come out and talk with us, give us advice, and help us with lunch plans like they did at Davidson. But a look at their performing arts schedule shows a theatre production, a musical, a symphony, a guitar ensemble, a jazz combo competition, an oratorio and aria competition, a vocal recital, and assorted smaller events in music and theatre over those three days alone. D loves small cohorts of intimate friends, and craves unlimited exposure to a broad spectrum of arts and culture. So which would she love more? I guess we'll find out!</p>
<p>What about when money becomes involved?</p>
<p>I can go to a pretty good Honors College of a State University where I've already done some really cool research (I don't think finding research opportunities is really that hard for motivated students) and they will pay me $4,000 a year or I can pay about $8,000 a year to go to Davidson.</p>
<p>I'm really not even that concerned about the money (my mom is), but I plan on going to grad school after this to get my PhD in Chemistry. Well, the State U scholarship I got would be pretty nice to have. Anyways, I'm not a pure science person although I love Chemistry and Bio. I'm really into a lot of the social sciences too.</p>
<p>Ahh...this post is so convuluted. I'm in decision turmoil!</p>
<p>I forgot to add that I did some research on grad school admissions from both schools (this based on chemistry). I think that if you are a really motivated student you can graduate from a university with a good GPA and honors and be competitive with grad schools. At a top LAC it seems like everyone who graduates gets into a really good grad program. So, basically, if you have the credentials of a student at a good LAC but go to a state university, you have about equal chances I think. It's kind of a quality over quantity type of situitation when talking about the students who graduate from each type of school. State schools have some really bright people but also some not so motivated people (to be euphemistic) but most of the people who graduate from good LACs are that quality.</p>
<p>I posted this same message in another thread but this seems to be my exact problem. I have read everything in here and wonder if there is anthing any of you here have to add.. here it is..</p>
<p>I'm posting this in dire need of help. I am a high school senior in Atlanta, GA who has been accepted at a few places. I am interested in studying Business / International Business. The problem is I can not decide where to go. </p>
<p>My top two choices are The University of Georgia (UGA), where I have been accepted into the business school to study pre business and int'l business, and The College of Charleston (CofC), where I have been accepted into the honors program. My problem may already be apparent to some. UGA is a very big state school, and CofC is a lot smaller - its a Liberal Arts College (LAC). My have left the decision up to me, but they prefer UGA because in their mind it will provide a better education. UGA is a well ranked school that is very respectable in the business field. To my parents, that is everything. CofC will provide me with smaller class sizes, better interaction with my professors, and in the honors program, a pretty good education. When I was in Charleston I could see myself spending the next four years of my life there. I am not a fan of taking a bus to class (like I would have to at UGA), and I dont plan on join a frat., like most people do at UGA. But, a good education is extremely important to me, I want to work hard and get into an excellent graduate school, and also gain the most out of my college experience. There is a good possibility that UGA will help me do that a little better than CofC will, but I couldn't see myself living at UGA. </p>
<p>Money is not an issue because I received a scholarship at CofC that would make it the same price as UGA (in state tuition). Please respond with any information at all, and ideas, something that maybe helped you decide... </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>From what I know, CofC isn't the most academically challenging school.</p>
<p>Also, it's a little big for the benefits you describe of a good LAC (I believe about 9,000 people go there). Charleston is an awesome city; I love visiting there. However, CofC isn't in the best part of Charleston. Right off campus gets pretty bad. I don't know how much of a concern partying is for you but CofC is a huge party school. Don't get me wrong, I like to loosen up every once in a while, but they have a huge problem with binge drinking, marijuana, and...well, stronger drugs.</p>
<p>I'm not sure about the specific business programs at CofC and UGA but I would imagine, academically, UGA is just as good if not better.</p>
<p>about blank, the decision is not about the difference between the schools, the decision is about you. Where would you fit in? Where would you get the type of education that's right for you. So tell us more about you. What do you want to study? What do you like to do in your spare time? </p>
<p>My son strongly considered Wesleyan and ended up at Williams. I went to UMich, so I have a pretty good idea of the comparison. (We are Americans living in Asia, so there are further parallels to your situation.) I think that Hannas analogy is good as a starting point. I was the kid at the big university who was reluctant to get up and ask for help. There were wonderful opportunities but I was too overwhelmed to take advantage of them. In retrospect that environment was all wrong for me. Again, this was just me. Some kids thrive in a competitive, fast moving atmosphere. Some wilt. You need to think about who YOU are.</p>
<p>The small LACs have a wonderful sense of community which is especially appealing for kids who are coming from overseas. They put a lot of energy into helping first years quickly form a cohesive group of friends. This isnt to say that you wont find warm, friendly kids at Berkeley or Rice, but just that Wesleyan is extremely focused on the undergraduate experience, social as well as academic.</p>
<p>I think it would be a big mistake to assume that the academics at Wesleyan or other top LACs fall into the safe and cozy category. Personalized, yes. Comfy, no. The academics are rigorous and demanding and there is nowhere to hide in a class of 15. Without doubt, your brain will be challenged to the exploding point.</p>
<p>Your professors (not TAs) are there for the primary purpose to teach YOU. They may be writers, researchers or experts in their fields, but they are teachers first! Again, youll find wonderful professors at Berkeley and Rice, but the level of accessibility at the small LAC is incomparable.</p>
<p>PS Alexandre wrote: LACs cannot come close to offering the breadth and depth of academic options, world class professors and cutting edge information...nor do LACs (due to their small student bodies, lack of research and consulting professors and professional graduate programs) have the same type of connections to industry to provide their students with the best in career guidance and on-campus corporate recruiting. </p>
<p>This is absolutely not so! LACs may not have as many course offerings as a big university, but if youre a liberal arts candidate (as opposed to some arcane discipline) you will have no problem choosing 32-40 courses that fulfill your every need. The professors are without doubt world class and the information cutting edge, and as far as connections to industry (or other real-life organizations) go, just take a look at the alumni/ae success stories. Whats more your professors really KNOW you so those recommendation letters are superb.</p>
<p>Momrath, I never said that students at LACs could not find fascinating and informative courses to fill 4 years worth of education. I said that the breadth and depth of courses and resources availlable to students are significantly inferior at LACs. There is a difference. You say that you were better suited for a LAC, and your experience at Michigan (or any larger research institution) did not meet with your expectations. That is perfectly normal. Each individual has different learning preferences and educational expectations. But you seem to want to give 100% credit to LACs and no credit to research universities. If LACs offered the best of both worlds (incredible intimacy and the best facult and course selection), research universities would be inferior in every way. But that is not the case. I am going to provide a link to the Economics departments of a LAC and of a Research university:</p>
<p>University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
<a href="http://www.econ.lsa.umich.edu/econ/people/%5B/url%5D">http://www.econ.lsa.umich.edu/econ/people/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.lsa.umich.edu/lsa/cg_results/0,,8,00.html?termArray=f_04_1510&cgtype=&department=ECON&show=50%5B/url%5D">http://www.lsa.umich.edu/lsa/cg_results/0,,8,00.html?termArray=f_04_1510&cgtype=&department=ECON&show=50</a>
Michigan is a top research university and its Economics department is quite respected. Michigan has a faculty of 50 full time professors and offers roughly 65 courses each semester. Eventhough a third of those classes are graduate level courses, they are open to undergraduate students.</p>
<p>Carleton College
<a href="http://webapps.acs.carleton.edu/curricular/econ/faculty/%5B/url%5D">http://webapps.acs.carleton.edu/curricular/econ/faculty/</a></p>
<p><a href="http://webapps.acs.carleton.edu/curricular/econ/courses/?order_courses_by_term=1%5B/url%5D">http://webapps.acs.carleton.edu/curricular/econ/courses/?order_courses_by_term=1</a>
Carleton is a top LAC. Its Economics department is one of the more respected among LACs. Carleton has an Econimics faculty of 10 professors and one average, offers 15 Economics classes, none of which are advanced.</p>
<p>As you can clearly see, research universities have far more resources and a larger selection of courses availlable. That is not to say that they offer better educations, we already agreed that each individual has a preferred learning evironment, but there is a cost associated with attending a smaller, more intimate atmosphere that you get at LACs. To some, the cost is greater than the benefits...to others, the cost is worth it.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I'm not disparaging Michigan, Berkeley or any other research university. UMich wasn't right for the person that I was 35 years ago. For what I am today, I'd go there in a heartbeat. I give plenty of credit to research universities and understand fully why they appeal to certain kids.</p>
<p>My point is that you shouldn't choose a school by the number of courses or professors in an individual department. You should go for the fit that's best for you. Fit is an intangible so you can't measure and weigh it, but evaluating the social atmosphere and teaching style is a good place to start. </p>
<p>Every school -- large and small -- has academic strengths and weaknesses. It seems that economics is not Carleton's strong point. Williams on the other hand has 32 economics professors and offers 22-28 courses each semester, all undergraduate, so although I can't argue that "research universities have far more resources and a larger selection of courses available." I will argue that a student interested in economics could do as well academically at Williams as s/he could do at UMich.</p>
<p>The OP was comparing Wesleyan and UCBerkeley. I have no doubt that Cal can outstrip Wesleyan in the numbers game in most academic departments; however without knowing what area the OP is interested in, I wouldn't venture to advise him that he would have to sacrifice academic excellence by attending Wesleyan.</p>
<p>I don't see that sacrifice has to come into the equation at all.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree Momrath, Wesleyan, Williams and several other LACs can offer the best education to be found anywhere. If you look at my first response to the OP, I clearly state that Wesleyan and Cal are equally excellent..only in vastly different ways. </p>
<p>I think we all pretty much agree that LACs emphasize instruction and attention whereas research universities offer greater variety and more options. That does not mean that LACs do not offer great resources and course variety...nor does it mean that research universities do not offer individualized attention or good instruction. All it means is that the schools emphasize different things. At the end of the day, it is a question of learning style and preference and it varries from individual to individual.</p>