I dunno, this may be overstating the difference a bit (though of course it depends on which schools you’re comparing, or even the departments & courses). “Back in the dark ages” at UChicago, we wrote many papers (closer to 5-10 per term, as I recall, than 1 in 4 years). I do think there are at least a few small to mid-sized research universities where you can find LAC-like class sizes (if not LAC-like levels of student-faculty engagement) even in the first two years. These are likely to be some of the more selective private schools or public honors colleges. However, even a typical state flagship will have many relatively small classes (especially at the more advanced levels or for less popular majors).
^ this info is very relevant to the decision, IMO.
Education and child development are not likely to be majors at most LACs. Child psychology will likely be available in courses within psychology, no matter where one goes.
If K-12 education is a serious interest, there are (licensing) reasons to stay instate (or the state one wishes to work in).
In all 3 cases, career options are limited without grad school, whether one attends a LAC or a U, unless the psych major is parlayed into a career in HR or something more general (consulting, perhaps) rather than wanting a career AS a psychologist.
That said, the choice doesn’t have to be either LAC/or large public U. There are small Us and large LACs, and private and public versions of both. There are “masters” colleges/universities that offer education majors (but not phds, so aren’t true universities in he research sense). Capital University in Ohio is one- it offers a variety of undergrad majors including education and nursing, and only has a grad school in law.
Visit.
LACs and small classes do generally mean assignment types will be different, unless the large class has an army of TAs to do in-depth grading of papers, problem sets and projects that aren’t possible to run through a scantron. This can be good or bad.
Even at a giant U classes generally get smaller as you go along - by senior year you may be primarily in small classes/seminars, maybe earlier.
If you intend to major in engineering, education, agriculture, or business, then an LAC is likely not a good choice for you—the access to majors and courses, to job fairs and recruiters, and havinga large alumni base in your field are all better served by larger universities.
After that, to me one of the biggest concerns is simply “fit”—I went to a large HS and could not imagine spending four years (age 18-22 with all that entails) in a smaller environment with fewer kids than I went to high school with. I wanted more people, a bigger campus, and a bigger surrounding community. As mentioned above, some of the consortium arrangements can be the best of both worlds, and some urban-based LACs offer access to a larger community, etc., but FOR ME (you may be different or not even fully know yet what you want), spending four years in a town of less than 20,000 with fewer kids than high school was a complete nonstarter. Still gives me shivers. My kids go to a very small private HS, so the analysis is likely different for them.
The main points of argument tend to be content versus format. Big universities emphasize content (greater course and major offerings, particularly at upper levels), while LACs emphasize format (smaller class with more personal attention, particularly at lower levels). Which is better than the other depends on the student.
Not sure where this inaccurate meme keeps coming from, but large research universities typically do not have large lectures led by graduate students on a regular basis. The usual format for such an example economics course is to have a faculty member give the lecture, supplemented by smaller discussion sections with graduate student TAs.
In terms of instructors who “wrote the book”, that seems like a luck of the draw.
In general, would you say that kids from small private HS tend to gravitate towards LACs or smaller private colleges then students from large public hjgh schools?
@socaldad2002 My D graduated from a HS with about 225 students. There were 56 in her graduating class. The students attend a wide variety of schools, from Big U’s to small LACs.
I don’t think this is inaccurate:
Some lectures are grad student taught, but many more are grad student graded.
and
IMO ^ is “teaching”.
From what I have seen of high school profiles of college destinations (for high schools that publish them), there appears to be a stronger tendency for private high school students to prefer private colleges (whether or not they are LACs) than public high school students. For example, at one non-religious high-academic high-SES private high school in California, USC is a much more popular college destination than UCLA. But at high-academic high-SES public high schools in the same area, UCLA is more popular than USC.
(Note: many private high schools are religious, so it may not be surprising if their graduates tended to favor private religious colleges of that religion.)
Dartmouth is not a LAC. It has over 2,000 graduate students (about the same number as Brandeis) spread over 4 graduate schools.
I have to ask what people are doing in their dating life that they have to hide after a break-up. A dating pool of 1,000 people, assuming you’re not bisexual, seems sufficient to me.
Maybe they just don’t want to have to run into their ex all the time.
Its important to visit, observe, talk to students etc. We took our daughter to several LACs, and she spent the night at one with her cousin. These were all wonderful schools, but the visits confirmed to her that she wanted a bigger school. There is no doubt in my mind that some …many…would find my daughter’s choice way too big… but it works for her.
All large universities are not created equal. My daughter has been doing research since her first year- this is the norm at her school and not the exception. My daughter told me that it’s hard to find an undergraduate student who is not doing research. My friend’s daughter …in a different large university …tried to get involved in research as a junior, and it took several months for somebody to get back to her. This is something to consider if research is important.
My daughter’s large university has lecture halls for intro science classes, but her other classes ( non science) were smaller (25-50). Some students can make lectures work by sitting front and center, attending office hours, and ultimately becoming friends with their professors. My daughter is now very close with her professors ( dinners together etc) which is something that many don’t realize is possible at large universities. It depends on the school …and to a large degree… it depends on the student.
My daughter’s large university has a very busy campus. Clubs and volunteering are an important part of student life, and that is where she made many of her friends. The friend noted above, whose daughter is in a different large university, does not have this experience… at all. As a matter of fact, she recently told me that her daughter has outgrown the social scene at her school. She told me that there is not much going on ( clubs etc). Is that really true? I have no idea. It’s quite possible that her daughter is not taking the initiative. My daughter is not experiencing that …at all. Far from it. Again…Different schools, different students, different experiences.
There are lots of great schools… LACs and large universities. One size does not fit all. Best of luck to you!
^didn’t quite work in the case of the Columbia “mattress girl” and that was at a big, prominent research university in the middle of New York City.
Short answer: yes (although it may depend on what kind of “small private HS” population you’re considering)
A couple years ago I compiled statistics for nearly 6,000 matriculations from 10 prestigious/selective private high schools.
The high schools I covered were:
Phillips Exeter (NH)
Trinity (NY)
Hotchkiss (CT)
Horace Mann (NY)
Dalton (NY)
Harvard-Westlake (CA)
College Preparatory (Oakland, CA)
Lakeside (Seattle, WA)
Ransom Everglades (FL)
San Francisco University High (CA)
This list is biased not only toward prestige/selectivity, but also toward the NE and CA
(listed schools were drawn from a HS ranking published around that time.)
Of the ~6K matriculations I covered, 51 colleges received > 25 matriculations each.
These top 51 target schools included:
28 private research universities (all 8 Ivies were among the top 20 by matriculation counts)
17 private LACs
5 state universities (Michigan, Berkeley, Washington, UCLA, Virginia)
1 foreign university (McGill)
Of course, the LACs have much smaller undergraduate populations than most of the universities.
Especially with that in mind, their drawing power appears to be quite strong for this population.
But a critic might argue, all these numbers really show is that rich students who attend small/selective/expensive high schools naturally tend to gravitate toward small/selective/expensive colleges. Many top students never even bother to apply to LACs/Ivies. They go to big state schools within 100 miles from home (just like the majority of all students do.)
With respect to where profs kids attend school: Brown, Chicago, Columbia & Michigan for my nephews & nieces.
“But a critic might argue, all these numbers really show is that rich students who attend small/selective/expensive high schools naturally tend to gravitate toward small/selective/expensive colleges.”
And this is my point that this demographic group are the ones who disproportionately attend small/selective/expensive colleges including the LACs. I just don’t think that these colleges are even on the radar for the vast majority of HS students attending large public HS’s in U.S. At my D’s large public upper-middle class HS, even the top 10% of senior graduates are going to selective large public universities (UCB, UCLA, BU, UW) and large privates (Duke, Stanford, Vanderbilt, WashU). Very few are attracted to LACs even though many families can afford them.
Both my kids are attending LAC’s and both graduated from large public HS. The graduating classes were more than 1,350 students.
I know this may buck the numbers game, but the OP should not be dissuaded to try out a LAC because maybe small private school graduates gravitate toward LAC’s more than public school kids.
@socaldad2002 – your comment “very few are attracted to LACs” is a bit of a truism. LACs enroll a tiny % of incoming first years b/c they are, by design small and have very few spots. If you added all the first-year classes of the top 20 (assuming average class of 400) LACs together it’d be about 8000 students – which is about the same size of just one or two of the large public flagships on your list, or maybe 2.5 or 3 of the larger privates.
Admissions statistics don’t bear out that there’s not demand for top LACs. Instead, I think their very small enrollments make them less visible compared to the bigger colleges and universities that enroll so many more students.
One of the big questions, is do you prefer working alone or in a group? A large university can provide the anonymity to work alone and do well where a LAC provides less of that opportunity.
@CU123 I prefer working in a group, but I never participate in class discussions, and I’m assuming that could be a problem at an LAC.
I think I could see myself learning a lot through large classes and lectures, but the idea of small classes sounds just as good and could also be a good way for me to try to overcome my shyness. I feel like I would probably be happy with the classes at either type of school.