<p>Okay, first I will state my bias about liberal arts – namely, I cannot see how a college or university can be strong in liberal arts if you cannot study Latin or ancient Greek. In other words, if you cannot study Homer or Virgil in their original language, then that school cannot be considered strong in liberal arts.</p>
<p>Thus, for example, I do not think that Carnegie Mellon is strong in liberal arts. However, CMU does seem reasonably strong in social science and in fine arts. So, ask yourself what you mean by “liberal arts.” It might mean something different from my definition.</p>
<p>My definition also means that Purdue and Georgia Tech are not strong in liberal arts.</p>
<p>Rice University, however, would be a fantastic choice for combining engineering and liberal arts.</p>
<p>Well I suppose if you are going to use the archaic definition of liberal arts then you are talking about schools that focus on logic, debate, law, and military with a bit of math and writing and music sprinkled in there.</p>
<p>Another suggestion that you look hard at Harvey Mudd. Grads from Mudd do very well in the job market, and you will get a tremendous technical degree with a good dose of the liberal arts mixed in. My D2 is a sophomore there (although CS or Physics major, but lots of her friends are engineering majors). Aerospace companies definitely recruit there, they had their fall career/internship fair today, and there is a big picture of the Space X booth on the Mudd Facebook page today. And as others have mentioned, you can take some classes at the other Claremont Colleges. My kid is taking a history class at Scripps this semester that she really likes. Also, Mudd graduated more women engineers than men last year. One reason my D2 chose Mudd is because she wanted to be a school that wasn’t 70% male. Mudd admits about 45% women in a typical freshman class now. PM me if you want more info.</p>
<p>@boneh3ad, CP SLO has a great reputation for engineering, but they have more non-engineers than engineers. They have an Ag school, Business school, you can even get a degree in liberal studies at Cal Poly. The options are quite diverse. </p>
<p>I think it’s what a student makes of his undergraduate experience, as is the case with most aspects college life. Most engineering universities will have some classes in subjects such as Literature or History. At the Cal Polys, there will be a boat load of liberal arts courses. Lake Jr. read Homer’s Odyssey last year, an old dusty copy from his engineering school’s campus library. </p>
<p>Well with all this talk of Homer, makes me want to suggest Columbia engineering…One must take a partial Core and they teach Classics, great history etc.</p>
<p>Sorry for beating the Cal Poly thing to death as it’s certainly off topic, but engineers at CP account for just over 25% of the UG population.</p>
<p>That brings me to the point that is on topic, information given here is frequently not vetted by the poster, no matter how well intended they are. it is easy to repeat conventional wisdom as though it is fact.</p>
<p>OP, do your own due diligence. Read the web pages of the departments you’re interested in. Read their curriculum sheets. Good luck.</p>
<p>Ha… Mudd…“he deeply despised the Mudd campus architecture.” I didn’t like it either, but mostly I was shocked by the ugly (I think windowless?) dorm rooms. DS never noticed that because he was hooked on the geeky vibe. He ended up at Olin… very pricey room/board, but superb facilities. </p>
<p>I liked Olin, but as you know, that’s a place you feel you will like or not without much inbetween. I thought the comradory and opportunity would be cool, but he felt it was WAY too small. The facilities are nice and the proximity to Babson, a cool campus, was nice too. It’s probablly the closest any college student will ever get to experience what it would be like at a modern Hogwarts. </p>
<p>Olin is a niche-fit, too tiny/limited for almost all engineering students. It is far more limited than Mudd and other similar schoos. But the Olin “dorms like palaces” ratings are spot on. Tis a a good thing… Oliners need to stay on campus all 4 years. </p>
<p>If we are nominating colleges modern Hogwarts award, we should include Cal Tech Getting back to the topic, it really is tough to find a program that has room for all the required engineering courses AND a lot of liberal arts courses. I know there are proponents of 3-2 programs… but as discussed in other threads there are downsides to that scheme too. </p>
<p>Honestly, that goes on the “dumb reasons to reject a college” list. My kid barely notices the architecture, she is so immersed in fascinating tech and humanities experiences at Mudd. Plus, it is in sunny southern California, which beats the heck out of the weather at most of the schools here. Also, Mudd opened the new Shanahan Center last year, which is an amazing (and quite nice looking) new building where she has almost all of her classes and labs. A new dorm is under construction as well. Give it a rest… you bring this up every time Mudd is mentioned on a thread, and for 90%+ of engineering students they just don’t care. The Mudders care about great hands on experience, a deep and intense technical core, and highly intelligent classmates. If they want pretty, they go next door and hang out at Scripps.</p>
<p>So, I should have convinced him to go somewhere he didn’t have any interest in, Mudd or SoCal, so I could spend $240k on a place where he’d get a degree in general engineering? That’s what would have been dumb. I don’t give a rip why he didn’t want to go…HE DIDN’T WANT TO GO! With all the great options out there why would a parent even remotely consider pushing their child into a specific direction regardless of why the child was not interested? Now to the “thou doth protest too much” portion of your comment, there’s a reason Mudd is always on the ugliest campuses lists…Mudd’s campus is UGLY. Get over, be happy your kid likes it and move on. </p>
<p>For a general point of reference, engineering degree programs consist of:</p>
<ul>
<li>At least 37.5% engineering courses, as specified by ABET. For some majors, the required subjects may take more courses or credits than that. That may also depend on the school, since some schools’ courses are accelerated compared to other schools’ courses.</li>
<li>At least 25% math and science courses, as specified by ABET.</li>
<li>Humanities and social studies breadth courses. The amount is not specified by ABET (other than there has to be some), but typical requirements are around 20% of the total. Some schools like MIT and Harvey Mudd have greater requirements, while other schools like Brown have lesser requirements.</li>
</ul>
<p>My son is debating whether to go for computer engineering or computer science. Bowdoin for example has an excellent computer science program, likely just as good a prep but more liberal arts than some engineering programs. Some schools have computer engineering but it is too hardware oriented for him, part of the EE department.</p>
<p>His dilemma is that in HS, he took a language, he did band, and he did well in English. Part of him doesn’t want to drop that. But if he goes for engineering at a school with a breadth of other courses, he can probably get enough liberal arts on his own.</p>
<p>There would also be a potential for an undergrad program in the science version, and a graduate program in the engineering version. I did the reverse, undergrad engineering and graduate science, and ended up teaching college although many of my students are engineering.</p>
<p>Some schools offer CS in an engineering division and an arts and sciences division. While they may share the same CS courses, the engineering-based CS major tends to require additional science (usually physics) courses and may require additional math or engineering courses. Some universities offer CS only in the engineering division, while LACs typically have CS on the arts and science model (without the additional science courses). Some schools have CS in its own division (e.g. CMU, UCI).</p>
<p>The additional science courses may be relevant of the student eventually wants to take the patent exam, which has a prerequisite of either ABET accreditation (more common for engineering-based CS majors) or inclusion of specified science (physics, chemistry, and/or biology) course work in addition to CS.</p>
<p>Computer engineering usually connotes are more hardware emphasis (computer architecture and the like) than computer science, although the definitions do vary by school.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus, I thing that quote attributed to CO Mom, was actually mine and I agree it is unclear.</p>
<p>I think when people are looking for LA/engineering that they believe that there’s a 50/50 balance somewhere. To put it in another nebulous way, that there are schools where the treatment of history, social sciences and the arts are dramatically different. There really aren’t such institutions, in spite of popular beliefs to the contrary at both ends of the spectrum.</p>
<p>I’ll use Harvey Mudd and Cal Poly as an example. Both are well respected institutions that are widely perceived to be at the opposite ends of the spectrum in their treatment of H, SS and A, and in practice, they might be. The reality is that within an ABET curriculum, the width of the spectrum for other stuff is narrow. History, Social Sciences and Arts are 21.6% and 23.4% of the Cal Poly General Engineering Curriculum and the HMC General Engineering Curriculum, respectively (CP 40/185 quarter hours, HMC 30/128 semester hours).</p>
<p>@rhandco, I think what many parents and students forget is that there are LOTS of opportunities outside of the curriculum in the form of clubs and personal activities where students can continue their enrichment. He won’t have to give up activities he loves, he just might not get college credit for them.</p>
<p>@eyemgh ABET or not, I still think you are overlooking the difference in culture and lifestyle that is often present when comparing schools that are primarily STEM-focused versus schools that have a large humanities and social sciences program, regardless of how many actual classes one takes in those disciplines. Certainly if you compare an engineering degree at, say, Cornell to one at Georgia Tech, they ABET requirements mean the actual classes you take aren’t going to vary all that much, but the people surrounding you at the school certainly will, as will the variety of extracurricular activities. I am not saying one type of school is inherently superior to the other, as that is a highly personal matter, but there is absolutely a difference and for some people that is important.</p>
<p>Based on the original post, reading between the lines a bit, and taking into account a few of the statements made by @dissealguem in subsequent posts, a school where STEM majors are heavily favored in terms of institutional focus and student population simply may not be the best fit for her. No one here is trying to say that a place like Cal Poly is bad, and in fact, most people here probably hold quite a bit of respect for it, but it certainly does not seem to be the ideal fit for her.</p>
<p>For whatever reason, you love to bash Mudd and the “general engineering” degree you have so much disdain for, but which carries Mudd students very well out into top companies and engineering jobs. Maybe your kid couldn’t get in… not sure of the source of your repeated animosity toward the school. My kids visited plenty of colleges they didn’t like (40 colleges total between the two of them). We visited uglier campuses for sure, and certainly campuses where students would not have the same workplace opportunities upon graduating. But I am not out here slamming the facilities or majors of the schools they didn’t like. Your comments lack class and accuracy.</p>
<p>I didn’t put Cal Poly, Georgia Tech, Cal Tech and CMU on her list, she did. I’m also not advocating that Cal Poly is superior in any way, just that there will be students there interested in and opportunities to study history, social sciences and the arts. It is far more diverse in student body than the others you cast off.</p>
<p>Sure, student body diversity of interests is one thing, but most who look into this topic aren’t looking to be around those people, they are looking to BE those people in addition to being engineers. That is the tough part and it is what’s not being served by the schools with the classic reputations for doing so.</p>
</p>
Getting back to the topic, it really is tough to find a program that has room for all the required engineering courses AND a lot of liberal arts courses. I know there are proponents of 3-2 programs… but as discussed in other threads there are downsides to that scheme too. </p>