<p>How does Williams compare to regular schools? Is it on the same level academically as Harvard? Columbia? NYU? etc.</p>
<p>What about Wellesley? And Swarthmore? </p>
<p>Thanks! It's hard to know how they compare to other schools because they're not ranked together.</p>
<p>First of, outside of Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore, LAC's virtually have zero brand name recognition. </p>
<p>With that said, LAC's generally offer an excellent undergraduate academic experience and opportunities to do cutting-edge research. These schools tend to be very tight knit. Many graduates of LAC's (especially the top ones) end up going to top notch graduate programs. </p>
<p>LAC's are very good schools, but again, unless you go to the aforementioned three, you're not gonna get a lot of respect. But if you feel that an LAC is a good fit, then go for it.</p>
<p>Williams and Swarthmore (IMO) are about on par with Columbia, Duke, Dartmouth, Brown, and Penn; right after HYPS. </p>
<p>Williams has the edge over Swarthmore in terms of recruiting and professional placement, Swarthmore produces more Ph.Ds.</p>
<p>Wellesley IMO is comparable with places like Rice, JHU, and Georgetown.</p>
<p>
[quote]
First of, outside of Amherst, Williams, and Swarthmore, LAC's virtually have zero brand name recognition.
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</p>
<p>This is really a ridiculous statement and should not enter into your decision about college at all.</p>
<p>There are thousands of graduates from Wesleyan, Pomona, Bowdoin, Haverford, Colgate, Middlebury, Hamilton, Colby, W&L, etc. that are successful and well respected by peers who are in the position to be hiring candidates.</p>
<p>having no name recognition has nothing to do with the quality of a school. i think the statement was meant to let a student know its not well known. to handle in a situation like </p>
<p>"where did you go to school?"
"colgate."
"whats that?"</p>
<p>has nothing to do with how good a school it is.</p>
<p>Just as many people have heard of colgate as have heard of its academic equals. The only schools that have an undeserved heads up are the huge state universities (cause they're named after states) and schools like USC where sports are such a big deal. But universities and lacs are on close terms in name recognition.</p>
<p>I remember reading somewhere that Harvard professors love Pomona grads the most because they are so well educated</p>
<p>"where did you go to school?"
"colgate."
"whats that?"</p>
<p>It should be:</p>
<p>"where did you go to school?"
"colgate."
"So you're a dentist?"</p>
<p>You should know is that LACs are nowhere near the same level of academics Harvard, MIT, Yale, etc have achieved. Unless you mean solely undergrad academics, in which case the top LACs are damn good at. The problem is that most LACs are good in, unsurprisngly, the liberal arts. If you want to go into non-LA fields like Engineering, Business and etc, LACs may not be the best choice.</p>
<p>Those in the world of academia and the world of work know the caliber fo students that graduate from LAC and do know these schools. </p>
<p>Many LACs produce more PhD students than their large university counterparts because there is an emphasis on undergraduate education so their students are not competing against or getting knocked out of the box by graduate students.</p>
<p>"where did you go to school?"
"colgate."
"So you're a dentist?"</p>
<p>My uncle went to colgate and he is an orthodontist. Go figure.</p>
<p>lacs aren't worse or better than uni's, however most unis have their names from either research or high profile people attending grad schools. </p>
<p>when you see a story about a high profile lawyer, they say "oh he went to Yale Law"</p>
<p>you see a high profile doctor curing a deadly disease, "oh he works at Hopkins."</p>
<p>this gives universities a boost. what are they going to say about an LAC? "oh it must be good because that school raised $100,000 doing dance marathon." LACs don't have that type of boost to give them the name recognition associated with their "goodness"</p>
<p>jags, that's the whole point. LACs don't have graduate schools. No one goes to "Middlebury law" or "Williams medicine." LACs are purely undergraduate, meaning they are educational stepping stones to those prestigious graduate fields/schools and careers. Sure, that lawyer went to Yale law, and that doctor works at Hopkins...but where is the mention of their undergraduate education? For all you know, they could have gone to Amherst!
In those professional fields, no one cares where you went for your undergraduate degree. If you get into a good grad school, then the money will come to you.</p>
<p>"Where did you go to school?"
"Wesleyan"
"So you're a girl?"</p>
<p>This is a real conversation:
Someone: "What are your top choice schools?"
Me: "NYU, UVa, and Wesleyan."
Someone: "Isn't Wesleyan an all-girl's school in Mass?"
Me: "No, WELLESLEY COLLEGE (Pronounciation key: Well-slee) is the all-girl's school in MA, WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY (Pronounciation key: Wes-lee-an) is coed and is in CT."
Someone: "Interesting."</p>
<p>I've heard people say WELLESLEYAN, WESLEY, and other combinations of the above names.</p>
<p>Mom: "What are the top business schools?"
Me: "Wharton, MIT, Mich, UCB, Stern, CMU, UVa, etc etc"
Mom: "Whar..who? What's Wharton?"
Me: "UPENN-Wharton."
Mom: "Oh...why didn't you tell me so?"
Me: "Um...I did."</p>
<p>Many LACs produce more PhD students than their large university counterparts because there is an emphasis on undergraduate education so their students are not competing against or getting knocked out of the box by graduate students.</p>
<p>A. larger universities produce more Ph.D. students. Unless you mean a greater ratio of students attaining Ph.D.</p>
<p>B. Don't act like a better ratio is the work of LACs offering a better undergrad education. The vast majority of LACs have most of their student bodies earning liberal arts degree - or people who will most likely earn Ph.Ds. Larger universities have many more students with "practical/professional" degrees who go to work right after graduation instead of entering graduate school.</p>
<p>malomar,</p>
<p>i know. i'm just explaining why LACs which are just as good as unis don't have anywhere near the name recognition.</p>
<p>also please note that the genius doctor, or crafty lawyer could very well have gone to Podunk State University ;-).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Wellesley, Pomona and arguably a few others are on the same level academically as Harvard and Columbia. My personal opinion is that they are a notch above NYU, although NYU has several excellent programs.</p>
<p>Brand name recognition is a subjective thing. The percentage of people in the universe who have ever heard of Williams, for example, is considerably smaller than those who have heard of Harvard. However, admissions committees from top graduate and professional schools would have heard of Williams for sure. </p>
<p>If your objective is to impress the "man or woman on the street" then don't choose Williams. You'll get nothing but blank stares. If your objective is to get an excellent education and go on to advanced study with a network of career contacts then Williams is as good a choice as any college in America.</p>
<p>My orthopedic went to Colgate :)</p>
<p>Ray192 said:</p>
<br>
<p>B. Don't act like a better ratio is the work of LACs offering a better undergrad education. The vast majority of LACs have most of their student bodies earning liberal arts degree - or people who will most likely earn Ph.Ds. Larger universities have many more students with "practical/professional" degrees who go to work right after graduation instead of entering graduate school.<</p>
<br>
<p>Many larger research universities do have business/pratical degrees. But the Ivies tend not to, at least not at the undergraduate level.</p>
<p>
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Many LACs produce more PhD students than their large university counterparts because there is an emphasis on undergraduate education so their students are not competing against or getting knocked out of the box by graduate students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Let me clarify, LACs send a larger porportion of their undergraduate students on to PhD programs (at large research universities) than those who do their undergraduate work at large universities.</p>