<p>How does Williams compare to regular schools? Is it on the same level academically as Harvard? Columbia? NYU? etc.</p>
<p>What about Wellesley? And Swarthmore? </p>
<p>Thanks! It's hard to know how they compare to other schools because they're not ranked together.</p>
<p>Is it on the same level academically as Harvard? Columbia? NYU? etc.</p>
<p>What about Wellesley? And Swarthmore? </p>
<p>The answer to all these is yes. The difference is in that the universities named above have graduate programs, which some view as a detriment to undergraduate education but others view as an advantage. But the quality of the faculty and the student bodies is the same.</p>
<p>So not having a graduate department is what defines an LAC? I've never really understood it, since LACs aren't just Liberal Arts.</p>
<p>LAC is short hand for Liberal Arts COLLEGE.</p>
<p>There are a few colleges that are actually universities. Boston College is a university and took on that name because there already was a Boston University. Some universities are more like colleges with a few graduate departments, but not the full range. Wesleyan University is more like a college with some graduate departments. </p>
<p>On the whole, however, the distinction holds.</p>
<p>I believe that some colleges would not be considered LACs. I'd put Babson and Bentley Colleges in that non-LAC category as both focus on business. Olin is another one, and it focuses on engineering.</p>
<p>Oh dear, now I'm even more confused. :)</p>
<p>But thanks for trying. I guess this is one of those things like physics. It may be clear to other people, but I am just never going to grasp it.</p>
<p>okay. Let me try again. As a general rule, LACs do not have graduate departments, hence the belief that they are totally focused on educating undergraduates. For most students, that is a good thing. For some, the lack of graduate students and resources primarily aimed at graduate students is a negative (eg. for advanced undergraduates who need to take graduate classes).
That's what makes them colleges rather than universities.</p>
<p>They also offer a range of courses in the liberal arts and sciences, which means the humanities, social sciences and natural sciences, but not professional training (eg. engineering, business, architecture and the like). This earns them the appellation of "Liberal Arts". The faculty is the Faculty of Arts and Sciences. There are some colleges of engineering or business but these are not considered LACs precisely because of their vocational orientation. Is this better?</p>
<p>Eureka! </p>
<p>So, erm, what do you know about physics? :)</p>
<p>Practically nothing. But I'm married to a Ph.D. in physics. :)</p>
<p>Another thing I should have brought up is size. The typical LAC has a student population ranging from 1300 (eg. Haverford) to 2,500 (eg. Wesleyan, which I group among LACs though it is a university with a few graduate departments). Midsize research universities range from about 4 to 7.000 thousands. Harvard, for example, has 6,600 undergraduates and is at the high end for mid-size universities. Many students perfer LACs because of their more intimate size as well as focus on undergraduates.</p>
<p>Also, for the most part, LACs tend to be smaller. A LAC with 3000 students would be considered very large... and those numbers would be very small for a university. So at a LAC you are more likely to have smaller classes and more direct contact with professors, as well as more frequent contact with other students through your classes. That is, if your roommate signs up for biology and you sign up for biology, you are much more likely to find yourself in the same class with the same prof at a LAC than at a university, where the introductory classes may be huge lectures with several classes offered, and with students assigned to many different smaller sections for labs. When my son took chemistry at a LAC there were about 10 students in his class and he was on a first name basis with the prof; when I took chemistry at a university there were about 600 students in my class and the prof was lecturing at the front while I was seated somewhere near the back. </p>
<p>That is a big oversimplification (I also has small classes and seminars at my university) -but often what attracts students to LACs is the idea of a more close-knit, supportive, environment -- whereas students often choose universities when they want access to greater resources, such as more course offerings in less common subject areas.</p>
<p>Thanks, ya'll. I am adding this to my favorites so when people ask me this (as they sometimes do), I can just email them the link instead of giving them the ole deer in the headlights.</p>
<p>PurpoisePal, I answered your thread in the other board, but just to add a note about "liberal arts". This has come to be one of the most confusing and misleading phrases in education. The liberal arts are not necessarily involved with art or liberals and both small colleges and large universities offer them.</p>
<p>I'm not sure of its derivation but in a greater sense the liberal arts embrace all general non-professional disciplines like science, the arts and social studies. Many large universities have colleges or schools of liberal arts (or arts and sciences or in the case of my almamater Literature, Science and the Arts) that are part of the whole university. The university may also have non-liberal arts undergraduate and graduate schools or colleges in programs like engineering, business, law, medicine, architecture etc. etc.</p>
<p>The liberal arts college or LAC by definition focuses on the undergraduate experience, non-professional experience. There are, however, scores of exceptions: some offer engineering, some offer one or two graduate degrees, some as Marite says are universities, not colleges.</p>
<p>LAC's tend to be small -- 1000-2500 students, which is why you often hear small used with LAC.</p>
<p>I went to a mega-university and my son now attends a small liberal arts college. I can certainly see the advantages and disadvantages of both and as in many things the greatest strength can also be viewed as the greatest weakness. I think the important factor is to try to visit and decide for yourself which is most suitable for you.</p>
<p>I never before fully understood these nuances, but do now. Thank you so much!</p>
<p>Here's a pretty good definition from Wikipedia. As it says the original definition means arts appropriate for free men (from the latin liber=free):</p>
<p>The term liberal arts has come to mean studies that are intended to provide general knowledge and intellectual skills, rather than more specialized occupational, scientific, or artistic skills.</p>
<p>The scope of the liberal arts has changed with society. It once emphasised the education of elites in the classics; but, with the rise of other humanities during the Age of Enlightenment, the scope and meaning of "liberal arts" expanded to include them. Still excluded from the liberal arts are topics such as agriculture, business, dentistry, engineering, chemistry, medicine, pedagogy (school-teaching), music, physics, and pharmacy.</p>
<p>In the history of education, the seven liberal arts comprised two groups of studies: the trivium and the quadrivium. Studies in the trivium involved grammar, dialectic (logic), and rhetoric; and studies in the quadrivium involved arithmetic, music, geometry, and astronomy. These liberal arts made up the core curriculum of the medieval universities. The term liberal in liberal arts is from the Latin word liberalis, meaning "appropriate for free men" (social and political elites), and they were contrasted with the servile arts. The liberal arts thus initially represented the kinds of skills and general knowledge needed by the elite echelon of society, whereas the servile arts represented specialized tradesman skills and knowledge needed by persons who were employed by the elite.</p>
<p>In the United States, liberal arts colleges are still a particular kind of higher education institution that are typified by their rejection of more direct vocational education during undergraduate studies. Following completion of their undergraduate studies at liberal arts colleges, graduates often do obtain specialized training by going to other institutions, such as professional schools (for instance, in business, law, medicine, or theology) or graduate schools.</p>
<p>Also, you can get an excellent education in the basics of science at a good LAC and you will be well-prepared to go on to to grad school or med school but you are less likely to encounter Nobel prize winners or the really top research scientists on the faculty or the very latest, very expensive equipment there. You may, however, have one or two eminent scholars in such fields as literary studies, history, philosophy, art history, political science...and likely a well-known novelist and/or poet in residence at an LAC.</p>
<p>At an LAC, you are likely to know everyone on campus at least by name and reputation and see many familiar faces every day. At a typical university, you will have a subgroup of people you know and see frequently but there will always be plenty of other people who rarely cross your path and about whom you know nothing. </p>
<p>LACs also tend to be somewhat more nurturing and supportive of undergrads, while large universities are more anonymous and can leave you to sink or swim. For some students, though, an LAC may start to feel claustrophobic by senior year.</p>
<p>It is largely a matter of personality and social preferences which would suit you better.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Still excluded from the liberal arts are topics such as agriculture, business, dentistry, engineering, chemistry, medicine, pedagogy (school-teaching), music, physics, and pharmacy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Some interesting information, DadX, but the liberal arts colleges (both free standing and as part of universities) that I'm familiar with do include chemistry, music, and physics. You can get an excellent education in all three fields at many small LACs.</p>
<p>I'd also like to point out that there are academic levels in both universities and LACs. In order to compare apples to apples you need to compare the top level to the top level and so forth. If you compare Harvard academically to a third tier LAC you are going to see quite a large disparity. If you compare Harvard to Williams, Wellesley or Swarthmore (getting back to the OP) you will see academic similarities. I know this should be obvious but although universities are fairly easy to classify, LACs tend to get lumped together.</p>
<p>The confusion stems from an old and a newer definition of "arts," which is now understood to mean something far more restrictive than it used to mean, just as the meaning of mathematics and science have also become far more restrictive than the original meaning of mathema and scientia both of which meant knowledge.</p>
<p>While the definition of liberal arts from Wikipedia is not perfect, it does have some interesting background on the historical derivation of the term. One source of confusion, in my view, is the disinction between "the liberal arts" as fields of study, and Liberal Arts Colleges. Some Liberal Arts Colleges do indeed have engineering as a major field of study (Lafayette and Swarthmore, for example). And while physics and chemistry are probably taught at all Liberal Arts Colleges, I wouldn't normally think of physics or chemistry as liberal arts themselves.</p>
<p>But the philosophy of most Liberal Arts Colleges is consistent with the medieval concept of the liberal arts, in the sense that most Liberal Arts Colleges reject the idea of a college education as primarily a vocational enterprise. While the skills of learning, communicating and cooperative enterprise will certainly prove valuable in the marketplace for graduates of Liberal Arts Colleges, most Liberal Arts College graduates do not have the certifications necessary for specific vocations like accounting, for example.</p>
<p>The Wikipedia definition of continues as follows:</p>
<p>"In the United States, liberal arts colleges are still a particular kind of higher education institution that are typified by their rejection of more direct vocational education during undergraduate studies."</p>
<p>I think this is fairly accurate.</p>
<p>I guess liberal arts is a term that's evolving and when used to modify "college" needs to be taken loosely. LAC has become much like SAT; the College Board would like to lose their "aptitude" root.</p>
<p>My definition of an LAC would be "A small college (under 3000 students) that focuses on undergraduate education in science, social studies and the arts." I'm sure you wordsmiths could help refine that.</p>